Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

Yes various parts of that have been published elsewhere. Most of the stories now just reflect the hovering mode everyone is in (because the investigations are ongoing) and therefore the similar stories just get rehashed.
 
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"The two sources, who declined to be named, said part of a stabilizer found in the Ethiopian wreckage was in a unusual position similar to the Lion Air plane."

Ethiopian crash investigators find piece of wreckage with similar setting to Lion Air plane -sources | Reuters


Also read something else about the software fix and testing should be done by end of the month.


As someone who is booked to fly on a Max 8 on 6 of April, this is the scenario I am dreading. I actually do not want a fix before then. I don't trust that adequate testing & training can be done by then. It all feels so rushed. This is just how I feel - I'm not a pilot and I'm not an engineer. Air Canada is refusing to change flights that are more than 4 days out. I'm waiting for our travel insurance to confirm they will pay for a change if we don't get a refund. I have found perfectly suitable flights for a similar cost of our current flights - only difference is that we'd have a layover which is fine. I'v been talking to the insurance broker for 2 days. They say this is a unique situation and they need to get back to me.
 
As someone who is booked to fly on a Max 8 on 6 of April, this is the scenario I am dreading. I actually do not want a fix before then. I don't trust that adequate testing & training can be done by then. It all feels so rushed. This is just how I feel - I'm not a pilot and I'm not an engineer. Air Canada is refusing to change flights that are more than 4 days out. I'm waiting for our travel insurance to confirm they will pay for a change if we don't get a refund. I have found perfectly suitable flights for a similar cost of our current flights - only difference is that we'd have a layover which is fine. I'v been talking to the insurance broker for 2 days. They say this is a unique situation and they need to get back to me.

I think the grounding is anticipated to be a while (like a couple of months?). I know it's not my money etc at risk here but I'd feel confident you won't be flying a max and you'll either be able to change because you'll enter their change period or there will be an aircraft shuffle because they're still grounded. I don't think they'll be up flying again in the next couple of weeks. There's a lot of info still to be gained and they don't have any end points in place as to when the aircraft are 'safe' to fly again.
 
I think the grounding is anticipated to be a while (like a couple of months?). I know it's not my money etc at risk here but I'd feel confident you won't be flying a max and you'll either be able to change because you'll enter their change period or there will be an aircraft shuffle because they're still grounded. I don't think they'll be up flying again in the next couple of weeks. There's a lot of info still to be gained and they don't have any end points in place as to when the aircraft are 'safe' to fly again.

that's what I would have thought (and am counting on)
 
I think it’s a very long stretch to say that any of the major investigators such as NTSB or BEA would intentionally corrupt an investigation. It’s the smaller countries that are more likely to be problematic. That’s why, for instance, there’s disagreement between the NTSB and the Egyptian equivalent with regard to the 767 crash some years ago.

For the person who asked, I’d have no issues flying on a QF 787. Having said that my tickets for the rest of the year cover A350, A380 and 777. I would always have issues flying on a jet aircraft with a 200 hour FO, even if I was in the left seat!

The Southwest letter is corporate spin, and as such should be used in the smallest room of your house. Given that Southwest is outright cause of the 737’s backward coughpit design, perhaps they should say nothing.
 
I think it’s a very long stretch to say that any of the major investigators such as NTSB or BEA would intentionally corrupt an investigation. It’s the smaller countries that are more likely to be problematic. That’s why, for instance, there’s disagreement between the NTSB and the Egyptian equivalent with regard to the 767 crash some years ago.

For the person who asked, I’d have no issues flying on a QF 787. Having said that my tickets for the rest of the year cover A350, A380 and 777. I would always have issues flying on a jet aircraft with a 200 hour FO, even if I was in the left seat!

The Southwest letter is corporate spin, and as such should be used in the smallest room of your house. Given that Southwest is outright cause of the 737’s backward coughpit design, perhaps they should say nothing.

I am more concerned about Boeing rushing a fix - to fix a software issue - and the USA/Canada saying "great, back in the air" before the full investigation is complete. They don't really know what the issue is - there seems to be an major assumption that it is SOLELY a software issue...and that sophisticated software can be adequately tested quickly. In any event, despite the number of posts I've made, I'm still of the opinion that either Air Canada will finally let us change/refund without penalty or our travel insurance will come through. I'm trying very hard not to stress about it. I sit at my desk at work - a lot - sitting on hold while I work and/or make calls from another phone isn't such a problem for me - especially since I opt to call their US lines in the middle of the US night!
 
The insurance payout, I'd be wary of. I'm not one who reads insurance policies cover to cover... fifteen times, but my understanding is that for airline issues, the airline is liable, for non airline issues (weather as an example) insurance will pay. In this case, it is not an airline issue and it is not strictly an issue at all as AC (I assume) fully intend to fly you, either on another aircraft type or a Max, if flying again.

Certainly not easy and I do understand your problem, as I'm also booked on a Max 8, but for me the issue is clear. If I'm not happy with the situation, I will change even if I lose (points in my case).

I do genuinely hope for the very best for your decision.
 
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Piece Found at Boeing 737 Crash Site Shows Jet Was Set to Dive
By
Alan Levin
March 15, 2019, 12:06 AM EDTUpdated on March 15, 2019, 1:05 AM EDT
  • Device is used to set trim that raises and lowers plane’s nose
  • Crash of Boeing 737 Max in Ethiopia led to grounding of fleet
This is the "smoking gun" that ultimately would have forced Boeing's and FAA's hand if they had held out.

Leaking this information prevents any coverup or spin.

The mighty dollar trumps airline safety - 300+ people dead to enable Boeing to play catch up to Airbus.
 
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I know it's way too early to ponder, but just out of curiosity, can company senior execs face criminal manslaughter charges if proven they knew of potentially lethal faults in a product they put to market?
 
I know it's way too early to ponder, but just out of curiosity, can company senior execs face criminal manslaughter charges if proven they knew of potentially lethal faults in a product they put to market?
Very difficult - closest case that comes to mind is the Ford Pinto case - quick google re: criminal charges (failed to win) Pinto verdict lets US industry off hook -
 
I am more concerned about Boeing rushing a fix - to fix a software issue - and the USA/Canada saying "great, back in the air" before the full investigation is complete. They don't really know what the issue is - there seems to be an major assumption that it is SOLELY a software issue...

The current set of changes being that they are talking about were the result of the LionAir crash - so it's not exactly a rush job.
 
This is an article from Aviation Week and Space Technology which is a well regarded source in the Aviation Industry.

737 MAX Groundings Raise Questions, Provide Few Answers

Sean Broderick and Michael Bruno
Dated
Friday, 15 March 2019 at 22:11

An unprecedented abundance of caution, driven by political and public pressure, led regulators and operators to ground the Boeing 737 MAX series in an 80-hr. window following the type’s second fatal accident in five months. The grounding in turn prompted Boeing to pause MAX deliveries. For an industry that prides itself on its deliberate, reasoned approach to complex safety issues, messaging around the uncoordinated series of groundings provides few answers and raises many questions.

The two most pressing unknowns are: What happened to the 737-8 operating as Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 (ET302) on March 10? And what does Boeing need to do to demonstrate that its newest narrowbody is airworthy?
  • Global 737 MAX fleet grounded
  • Second 737-8 accident in five months triggered moves
  • Software fix will be among changes
Investigators do not yet know if these two questions are linked. But regulators see enough similarities between ET302 and October 2018’s Lion Air Flight 610 (JT610) accident to consider the MAX a safety risk—at least until they are convinced it is not.

ET302 went down at about 8:44 a.m. local time, 6 min. into a scheduled flight from Addis Ababa to Nairobi. Its crew radioed that it was having “flight control” issues and requested to return to Addis Ababa’s Bole International Airport, says Ethiopian Airlines CEO Tewolde GebreMariam. Soon after, the 737-8 descended at a high rate of speed, data from online flight-tracking sites show, and was destroyed on impact. All 149 passengers and eight crew were killed.

The basic flight profiles of the aircraft operating as ET302 and JT610 are similar. Both were 737-8s delivered less than five months before their accident flights, both accidents occurred shortly after takeoff in clear weather, both crews reported flight-control problems, and both aircraft dove at high speed to impact.

The JT610 accident probe is focusing on erroneous angle-of-attack (AOA) sensor data triggering automatic nose-down inputs just after its flaps were retracted on takeoff. The source of the inputs is believed to be the aircraft’s Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight control law, which assists pilots in certain manual, flaps-up flying scenarios, “especially at slow airspeeds and high AOA,” Boeing explained in an operators’ bulletin issued last November. The MAX’s larger CFM Leap 1B engines create more lift at high angles of attack than the CFM56-7B used on the 737 Next Generation (NG). The MCAS was added as a certification requirement to help mitigate this.

Faulty data, such as an AOA sensor telling the aircraft that its nose is higher than it is, can cause the MCAS to push the nose down with automatic stabilizer deflections to compensate. Data from the JT610 flight data recorder (FDR) shows the crew provided regular nose-up inputs to counteract the MCAS. This caused altitude fluctuations for the last 5 min. of the flight, before it dove rapidly into the Java Sea.
bfaec7b3-37a4-4bbc-8958-cd6125ff39bf.jpg

Following the March 10 Ethiopian Airlines accident, on March 12 the UK Civil Aviation Authority grounded Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, including these parked at Manchester Airport, England. Credit: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images
Like the 737NG, the MAX includes two independent STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches that stop runaway stabilizer trim, shutting the MCAS off. It is a last-resort step included in a pilot checklist for when “uncommanded stabilizer trim movement occurs continuously,” the 737 MAX flight manual explains. The JT610 crew apparently did not activate the switches.

ET302’s FDR and coughpit voice recorder (CVR) were recovered March 11. Delays attributed to disagreements among the investigators meant the recorders did not make their way to a lab right away. The U.S. offered its NTSB facilities in Washington, but Ethiopian Airlines confirmed March 14 that a delegation led by the country’s accident investigation bureau flew the recorder to Paris for analysis by the French civil aviation agency, BEA. The recorders are damaged, and the BEA is among the agencies with special processes for extracting information from damaged devices.

Without FDR and CVR data providing insight, regulators and operators faced two choices: ground MAXs and wait for answers, or wait for data that points to a safety issue. Within a day of the accident, the consensus was clear: Though scant data was available, it was enough for most to ground the MAX. China was the first notable mover, as the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) on March 11 gave operators 9 hr. to park their MAXs. The CAAC cited “the management principle of zero tolerance for safety hazards and strict control of safety risks” in making the move, adding that both 737-8 accidents occurred “in the takeoff phase” and “have certain similarities.”

Most of the rest of the world soon followed, including a splintered European delegation that saw several European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) member countries get out ahead of its regulator and issue grounding orders. EASA eventually banned MAX operations as well.

As late as the evening of March 13, Canada and the U.S. were resisting calls by many—but notably no affected operators or pilot groups—to follow suit. Senior transportation officials from each country insisted that, absent hard data to justify a grounding, their MAXs would continue to fly.

But new information received overnight March 14—refined automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) tracking data of ET302 provided by Aireon—was enough to sway Transport Canada. The Canadians told their U.S. counterparts that they would ground the MAX, and at 11 a.m. Canada EDT, Transport Minister Marc Garneau told the world. The U.S. followed about 3 hr. later, with President Donald Trump—not an aviation or transportation official—making the announcement. The chain of events left a clear impression that the FAA wanted to wait for even more definitive data, but the White House had seen enough.

The FAA followed with a statement and emergency order that provided some context. “[The] investigation of the ET302 crash developed new information from the wreckage concerning the aircraft’s configuration just after takeoff that, taken together with newly refined data from satellite-based tracking of the aircraft’s flightpath, indicates some similarities between the [ET302 and JT610] accidents that warrant further investigation of the possibility of a shared cause for the two incidents that needs to be better understood and addressed,” the FAA’s order says.

FAA Acting Administrator Dan Elwell declined to provide details on the new physical evidence. “Suffice it to say, the evidence found on the ground made it more likely that the flightpath was closer to Lion Air’s,” he says.
6731e944-72cd-46cb-8298-6c82d856684c.jpg

Boeing 737-8 ET-AVJ departed Boeing Field on Nov. 15, 2018, when Ethiopian Airlines took delivery of it. The aircraft crashed shortly after takeoff from Addis Ababa Bole International Airport on March 10. Credit: Joe Walker
The tone and language of the order suggests discovery of wreckage that establishes key flight-control surface or actuator positions, such as a stabilizer jackscrew.

The wreckage and Aireon’s refined satellite data presented U.S. and Canadian aviation safety experts with a clearer picture of ET302’s 6-min. flightpath.

“The way the [initial] data was presented, it was not showing credible movement of an aircraft,” Elwell says. The new data changed that assessment.

While neither U.S. nor Canadian officials would detail their findings, both said the resulting track, including ET302’s altitude variations, lined up closely with JT610’s known track. This suggests ET302 was struggling to maintain altitude and then dove rapidly to the ground.

“We know what happened with the Lion Air flight,” Garneau says. “We wanted to see if the Ethiopian flight resembled it.” While the links between the two accidents “are not conclusive, there are similarities that exceed a certain threshold in our minds,” he adds.

“We are a fact-driven, data-based organization. We make actions based on data, findings and risk assessment,” Elwell says. “That data coalesced today, and we made the call.”

Elwell says the FAA’s reliance on the satellite data was in part due to uncertainty over delays in processing ET302’s FDR data. “We had been hopeful all along that with black boxes discovered so soon, we could get them on the table and start pulling data,” he says. “That process was lengthened more than I had hoped.”

The FAA’s order does not spell out the steps for getting the MAX back in service. The agency confirmed that validation and installation of the flight control system update being developed by Boeing in response to the JT610 findings will be part of the package. “We have not tied the [grounding] order specifically to the software patch,” Elwell says, adding that he is hopeful the update will be verified “within a couple of months.”

Elwell says removing the grounding order will hinge on learning more about the two accidents, and ET302 in particular, and ensuring that any safety issues are addressed.

“We still have a lot to learn before we can say [the two accidents] were the same cause and effect,” Elwell says. Given how the groundings unfolded, it is not clear an FAA all-clear for the MAX will satisfy other civil aviation authorities.

Boeing says the changes include updates to the MCAS as well as pilot displays, operations manuals and crew training.

“The enhanced flight control law incorporates angle of attack inputs, limits stabilizer trim commands in response to an erroneous angle-of-attack reading and provides a limit to the stabilizer command in order to retain elevator authority,” Boeing says. Flight tests are underway.

In the short term, Boeing’s reputation is suffering but—assuming the MAXs are cleared for service soon—the long-term outlook remains solid. The company’s stock price dropped more than 10% from where it was before the latest accident, but several financial analysts say they expect the whole affair will probably amount to no more than a blip. More important for Boeing, MAX deliveries are likely to continue, and for suppliers, production will not be affected.

“The Ethiopian 737 MAX crash is a near-term overhang, given it looks similar to last October’s Lion Air disaster,” Cowen and Co. analysts tell their investor clients. “But the crash’s potential root cause likely is fixable, and we don’t see this as a long-term risk for Boeing or key 737 MAX suppliers.”

Boeing revealed late on March 14 that it paused MAX deliveries due to the temporary grounding. Production will continue, and the company is assessing how capacity constraints will effect its system. There is no change to its production rate now, a spokesman tells Aviation Week, and the company still is delivering 737 NG versions.

The airframer would be expected to keep production humming because it would be more disruptive and expensive ultimately to stop, analysts say. Indeed, despite ongoing, unrelated supply issues that started in late 2017, Boeing has maintained 737 production, parking unfinished airframes on Seattle-area tarmacs. It also has kept KC-46A production going despite holdups there in recent years, as well.

In the end, Boeing weathered the production issues financially without much trace of an issue, posting record 2018 revenue of $101.1 billion and expectations of $109.5-111.5 billion this year. Analysts say the U.S. manufacturer has the wherewithal to withstand more negative headlines.

“The company has ample liquidity to deal with any impact, with $8.5 billion of cash and short-term investments and $5.1 billion of revolving credit facilities . . . as of Dec. 31, 2018,” S&P Global Ratings says. Even if costs and cash-drain due to the crashes are significant, and Boeing maintains expensive practices such as its rich shareholder returns, it still has a “significant cushion” before triggering the credit rating agency’s downgrade threshold.

Of course, the potential for a serious issue remains. Analysts say one bad scenario for suppliers and investors would be a software issue that requires a grounding of the fleet and temporary halt to deliveries. Jefferies says that could mean as much as a $5.1 billion hit to Boeing’s revenue, 5% of 2019 projected, with a $2.30 impact to earnings per share (12%) if there is no catch-up and a two-month pause in deliveries.

The 737 and the MAX specifically are critically important to Boeing and its supply chain. Canaccord Genuity estimates the 737 accounts for 25% of Boeing’s total 2019 free cash flow—the money pot that fuels shareholder returns. Some suppliers with significant exposure include Spirit AeroSystems, where around half its future annual sales are tied to the new narrowbody, as well as Triumph Group and Ducommun, each 15-20% of estimated 2020 sales.

“It is perhaps the most important program for Boeing and its suppliers,” Canaccord’s Ken Herbert says.

According to Credit-Suisse analysts, 579 MAX deliveries are expected for 2019, or 88% of total 737 deliveries. This leads to an estimated revenue from the MAX of $31.7 billion, or 48% of Boeing Commercial Aircraft’s (BCA) expected sales in 2019 and 28% company-wide. “Given lower gross profit on the other major programs such as 787, we estimate 737 overall at 82.6% of BCA gross profit (though likely lower cash profit percentage, due to 787 cash profit exceeding book profit),” the analysts say.

Still, with the FAA reiterating the MAX’s airworthiness, Boeing backing the airplane and U.S. airlines standing with it, analysts see the issue as not altering the trajectory of Boeing and its supply chain.

“The near term could look worse for Boeing, depending on what the FAA does,” Cowen analysts note. “But we don’t see this as a long-term problem, and the traveling public has had a very short memory of previous catastrophic crashes, e.g., the 1989 DC-10 crash in Iowa due to failure of its tail-mounted engine.”
 
This I think s paywalled: Ethiopian Airlines black boxes flown to France for analysis

... but some excerpts (non consecutive) FWIW:

It could take up to six months for Boeing to roll out the software fix for its troubled Max jets following the ill-fated Ethiopian Airlines flight that killed 157 people.

The delay prediction comes from the Bank of America, whose analyst Ronald Epstein said in a note: “Once Boeing identifies the issue on the 737 MAX, the most likely scenario, in our view, is that the company will take about 3-6 months to come up with a fix and certify the fix.”

Other sources believe the fix will be introduced sooner, which will update the jets’ anti-stall software, which baffled pilots of the Lion Air flight that crashed into the Java Sea last year.

“I know the software fix is going out in a couple of weeks and going fleet-wide is going to take at least through April,” US Democrat Rick Larsen said.

Max jet flights won’t resume until the update is received.
 
“The near term could look worse for Boeing, depending on what the FAA does,” Cowen analysts note. “But we don’t see this as a long-term problem, and the traveling public has had a very short memory of previous catastrophic crashes, e.g., the 1989 DC-10 crash in Iowa due to failure of its tail-mounted engine.”

Not so sure about this last part. We have social media these days with info disseminated widely and fast. Aren't Malaysian still hurting financially from their incidents?
 
I know it's way too early to ponder, but just out of curiosity, can company senior execs face criminal manslaughter charges if proven they knew of potentially lethal faults in a product they put to market?

swanning, I am deadset against what I personnaly believe Boeing has done with the 737 MAX, but I think perspective is required here. This is a nasty glitch, but it is still a glitch. Airplane manufacturers, airlines, pilots, and everyone else involved have still managed to make this form of travel unbelievably safe. Even with the loss of a couple fo 737's.
 
swanning, I am deadset against what I personnaly believe Boeing has done with the 737 MAX, but I think perspective is required here. This is a nasty glitch, but it is still a glitch. Airplane manufacturers, airlines, pilots, and everyone else involved have still managed to make this form of travel unbelievably safe. Even with the loss of a couple fo 737's.

It’s not just ‘a couple of 737s’ though is it?

It’s three hundred and fifty people.
 

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