Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

"U.S. airlines operate within the most advanced, regulated aviation system in the world "
They ALWAYS say that but especially US media constantly shout they they got the most advanced this and the most advanced that. Regulated could be, I'm no expert (but is it any less regulated in, say, Europe?). 'Advanced' is a matter of definition, isn't it. Their airports certainly often are not to start with :rolleyes:
 
Sad to hear the loss of so many lives. Our prayers are with them.

I booked a SilkAir flight CNX-SIN next month and was worried about ending up with the 7M8 but sensibly the fleet is now grounded.
 
"U.S. airlines operate within the most advanced, regulated aviation system in the world "
Do they or is this just more hype ?

737 MAX 8 Update - Southwest Airlines

Yeah ok, we know that's a furphy based on the anonymous submissions through to the FAA.

How do you know it’s a furphy?

What a long winded exercise in chest beating (that's how it seems to me). Just issue a statement that says "Safety is the number one priority at Southwest, and we have taken the directive of the manufacturer Boeing and the FAA to ground our aircraft while they further investigate the circumstances around the tragic crash of Ethiopian Airlines. We apologise for any inconvenience."

Simple, isn't it?

Well it’s a corporate public statement put out by a CEO. It come with spin. But the statement is as simple as it should be. How would you have written it?.

My view is that WN will have data from all their 737 flights including the MAX flights. Maybe they do think that from their POV the aircraft is good/safe. The ET302 crash is still under investigation and no answers are available yet.

So to say they are hiding something or not being truthful is just as crazy as your assertion that their statements are plain wrong. We armchair critics have no information - at all, none, zilch. They have. We may say it’s all spin but I don’t see how we can say we are more correct and yet some comments here seem to infer that the commentators now better, or have more information.

All we can do is read all statements with a bit of healthy skepticism. Hopefully the truth or the root cause of the crash will come out soon and some changes made.

They ALWAYS say that but especially US media constantly shout they they got the most advanced this and the most advanced that. Regulated could be, I'm no expert (but is it any less regulated in, say, Europe?). 'Advanced' is a matter of definition, isn't it. Their airports certainly often are not to start with :rolleyes:

We can choose to believe them or not. However the aviation industry in the US is deep - from general aviation to the military to the commercials. They have more airports/airplanes/pilots of all sorts than anyone else. Now one could say that it’s just numbers but their size is massive and with that comes potentially a greater visibility of any shortcomings- prior to ET302 do you see any?. 1% of a million risk will declare itself more oftenwhen the number is a million than when the number is a 1000 with the same risk.

Their deep aviation culture also comes with many decades of often bitter experience which a lot of other countries absolutely lack. From those experiences they have invented/developed a lot aviation tools/procedures that are used worldwide.

No system is perfect but I would put the US aviation industry right up there with the best. “Most?” -yes it a hard call to say that with anything but among the best - most definitely.

Their airports?. Massive numbers of people go through them daily. Huge number of flights everyday. What’s that got to do with a crash investigation?
 
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How do you know it’s a furphy?

I stated why. The evidence has been posted in this thread.

Well it’s a corporate public statement put out by a CEO. It come with spin. But the statement is as simple as it should be. How would you have written it?.

I stated how I thought it should have been written.

My view is that WN will have data from all their 737 flights including the MAX flights. Maybe they do think that from their POV the aircraft is good/safe. The ET302 crash is still under investigation and no answers are available yet.

So because they as a single operator haven't experienced any issues, it means the type is completely safe? The entire 737 family is not in question here - just the MAX.

So to say they are hiding something or not being truthful is just as crazy as your assertion that their statements are plain wrong. We armchair critics have no information - at all, none, zilch. They have. We may say it’s all spin but I don’t see how we can say we are more correct and yet some comments here seem to infer that the commentators now better, or have more information.

All we can do is read all statements with a bit of healthy skepticism. Hopefully the truth or the root cause of the crash will come out soon and some changes made.

I only called out what was wrong based on my take of what has been reported and uncovered thus far.

If changes need to be made to a type that has been in service for a short period of times and had two hull losses with hundreds killed and no obvious external causes, I view that as good reason to ignore commercial implications and in this case ground the aircraft.
 
I stated why. The evidence has been posted in this thread.

Posting 'evidence' on a frequent traveller forum does not necessarily count towards it being true. ;):)

That's how the circular 'A quotes B who quotes C who quotes B' thing happens on the internet.

quickstatus has made very reasonable, cogent points.
 
Posting 'evidence' on a frequent traveller forum does not necessarily count towards it being true. ;):)

That's how the circular 'A quotes B who quotes C who quotes B' thing happens on the internet.

quickstatus has made very reasonable, cogent points.
Fair enough. It is not legally binding evidence, but I don't think I was making that suggestion. Merely the evidence for my opinion on the Southwest CEO's message.

In any case, it's available for anyone to read and judge for themselves. Thanks drron for the link.

ASRS Reports for 737 max8
 
ET302 appeared to have "flight control" issues almost immediately after take off. Boeing maintains that MCAS does not operate under 1000 feet AGL or in manual or flaps down flight and then only when AoA exceeds a certain threshold.

It would be interesting to see if the "flight control issues" occurred before of after MCAS became available (whether or not it was actually activated)

JT610's problems (while the full story has not yet been released) seemed to occur after the total duration of flight of ET302 which was about 6-8 minutes in total.

Then there are rumors that there was overspeed but I dont have access to IAS in the flight tracking apps. Some aircraft auto retracts the flaps when certain airspeed is exceeded. Im not sure if the 737M8 has this feature.

Additional perspective about the ASRS reports. There have been approx 860 reports about the 737 fleet since Jan 2018, of those someone in another forum says there were 20 related to the max. I have not gone through the reports to see which are significantly relating to ET302 or JT610 (because even if we assume that JT610 os MCAS related, we dont know anything about ET302)

Re the 2 ASRS reports posted here: one was a report of autothrottle malfunction which does not seem to have anything to do with MCAS, and the other was a pilot saying he is not happy with MCAS which is his right to report and most would agree with him. But that pilot was not reporting an actual fault with the aircraft he was operating.
 
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Yes the hegemony of Boeing and FAA is being tested. And their competitors both commercial and regulatory are trying to take the moral high ground which is a very good place to be.

Interesting to watch. If history is anything to go by, the benefit is that airtravel becomes safer or renews a very safe culture after tragic accidents like the last 2 accidents.
 
Yes there were about 20 Max related reports through ASRS from Jan 2018. What is not revealed is the other 840 or so which were about the non Max 737 over the same period of time
 
The attitude that US aviation is best implies that the aviation industry of other countries are inferior. Which is not a good look even though the captain /copilot of JT610 had 6000/5000hrs and ET302 had 8000/200 hrs. If we are talking similarities we should include low hour experience.
.....
South Korea bans 737M deliveries. A somewhat moot point considering the aircraft cannot take off
.....
Is Boeing now more dangerous than Huawei?
 
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