Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[drron]

Reading on another site that there are very few Max8 simulators out there so that in training very few would experience these problems.Could that be part of the problem.

 

[Himeno]

QF grounded all A380s after QF32, but I seem to recall that other airlines chose no to.

There was only something like 40 A380s in service at the time with 5 or 6 airlines.

I recall SQ grounding theirs for a day. The other airlines with RR engines just added extra engine checks.

 

[I love to travel]

Whilst I understand the logic behind the posts above saying the training might be the issue, it overlooks the fact that it should not be happening in the first place. IMHO if it does turn out to be the same issue as Lion then its a fatal design flaw and all of the planes should be grounded until fixed.

 

[Quickstatus]

no it's the lack of training. The pilots just needed to turn off the safety system & all would have been well.

Why lack of training?
I’m not sure that the MCAS can be simply turned off Apart from turning off the motors in a runaway trim situation

 

[jb747]

no it's the lack of training. The pilots just needed to turn off the safety system & all would have been well.

That is a rather large leap. You cannot turn of MCAS. You can turn off power to the stabiliser, but that takes away all ability to correct the trim situation, so you may be left with a bag of poo anyway.

This undocumented system behaves in a way that is contrary to all previous Boeings. Its behaviour is simply illogical. If you trim against it (or, as per previous Boeing, just moved the yoke against it), not only should it stop, but it should not restart. It has the ability to wind in full nose down trim, which basically makes the aircraft unflyable. In no world does that make sense.

Of course this might not be MCAS...but it does smell.

 

[Quickstatus]

Reports from a 777 pilot behind the 737 Max at ADDthat an emergency was declared because of unreliable air speed indication. The 737M8 pilot was then put on a different frequency

 

[Buzzard]

A terrible accident. Just terrible.

 

[Andz]

Why has there been no crashes or reports of this issue by pilots in the US where the majority of Max's are located? I suggest weather (humidity) as both Indonesia and Ethiopia are near the equator. Could a Qantas, United, Virgin, BA pilot etc save the plane in a extremely overloaded scenario at low altitude?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The pilot is listed as having 8000 hours of flight time, the co-pilot just 200 hours. Could this affect the crew's ability, as a unit, to deal with an emergency of this nature? (That is, would the captain be able to fully rely on the copilot or would they be essentially handling this solo... and could that make a difference?)

 

[Berlin]

Imagine a third one comes down in the near future and you were to lose a loved one- would one really think then that it wasn’t necessary to ground them all until we know for sure that these two crashes were unrelated? I’d be furious!

Apart from that, thoughts (no prayers- these never work) are with the affected families. Horrible tragedy.

 

[Quickstatus]

Why has there been no crashes or reports of this issue by pilots in the US where the majority of Max's are located? I suggest weather (humidity) as both Indonesia and Ethiopia are near the equator. Could a Qantas, United, Virgin, BA pilot etc save the plane in a extremely overloaded scenario at low altitude

There have been 2x 737M8 crashes - one was weather independent , and the other at ADD when airfield weather was good, light winds, cool temps 18C and 10km visibility.

Events like these are fortunately rare, it is still rare in spite of what happened. Why did not not happen elsewhere?. Usually in an aircraft crash , a sequence of unfortunate events need to take place which fortunately has not occurred elsewhere. Maybe luck, training, governance, culture etc or some or all of the above. It’s too early to tell.

Note that ADD is 2334m (7657ft) elevation
Compared with say Denver at 1655m (5249ft).

Hot and high would be an issue for takeoff weight but it was cool and high on 10March.

ADD does apparently have lots of birds.

The ET 737M8 seats 16J/138Y = 154 pax.
ADD-NBO is 719miles (similar to ADL-SYD)
Overloaded?. Can’t say because data relating to ET302 is not in however the flight was not full and the mission range was nowhere near what it is capable of. So I would speculate that it was not overloaded.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Two Max 8 nose dives in 6 months with over 300 lives lost. It does not bode well for Boeing IMHO. How well capitalised is Boeing? Massive law suits, groundings, loss of public and client confidence, possible order cancellations and what appears to be a desperate need for some major redesigns, recalls and retrofits.

Sounds expensive to me.

 

[Quickstatus]

The pilot is listed as having 8000 hours of flight time, the co-pilot just 200 hours. Could this affect the crew's ability, as a unit, to deal with an emergency of this nature? (That is, would the captain be able to fully rely on the copilot or would they be essentially handling this solo... and could that make a difference?)

If true copilot sounds like a new recruit/cadet. No experience there, and therefore answer is no. Lots of LCC take 200hr cadets and put them in right hand seat

Qantas direct second officer entry require at least 1500hrs as a copilot elsewhere.

AirAsia motto “now everyone can fly” might as well be “now everyone can be a pilot”

 

[Quickstatus]

Two Max 8 nose dives in 6 months with over 300 lives lost....

I’m not sure that there is (current) evidence that it pitched nosedown
FR24 does not show the descent profile for that flight but even if it did would not display pitch angle

 

[Quickstatus]

Reading on another site that there are very few Max8 simulators out there so that in training very few would experience these problems.Could that be part of the problem.

Boeing sold the 737Max8 as really just another 737-800 with enhancements - therefore No extra training required as it’s not a different type of aircraft.

 

[jakeseven7]

Virgin refusing to comment other than still planning to take delivery, while other airlines and countries ground the aircraft.

At the end of the day CASA haven’t certified it for AU yet right...?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I’m not sure that there is (current) evidence that it pitched nosedown
FR24 does not show the descent profile for that flight but even if it did would not display pitch angle

Currently being reported that eye witnesses have said it did along with the very contained debris field indicating a steep dive.

 

[Quickstatus]

Currently being reported that eye witnesses have said it did along with the very contained debris field indicating a steep dive.

The pictures of the crash site is suspicious for lack of debris, though one looks like a crater.

I have only read an eyewitness say the rear of aircraft was on fire rather than nosedive. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place

 

[AviatorInsight]

There have been 2x 737M8 crashes - one was weather independent , and the other at ADD when airfield weather was good, light winds, cool temps 18C and 10km visibility.

Note that ADD is 2334m (7657ft) elevation
Compared with say Denver at 1655m (5249ft).

Hot and high would be an issue for takeoff weight but it was cool and high on 10March.

Be careful here. Technically at 7657ft 18ºc is not cool at all. In fact it's 18º hotter than ISA! At 7650ft ISA is around 0ºc.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The pictures of the crash site is suspicious for lack of debris, though one looks like a crater.

I have only read an eyewitness say the rear of aircraft was on fire rather than nosedive. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place

I get my info from only the most reliable sources ... in this case EMTV news!