Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[Quickstatus]

I don’t put much credence in eyewitness testimony as it is so often wrong but if flames were observed that would be a rather interesting spanner in the works.

Even if there were, Flames may not mean much other than loss of power in that engine

 

[Berlin]

Even if there were, Flames may not mean much

Do you mind elaborating a bit more? I’m not a technical expert and wow, flames look shiny to me...

 

[Quickstatus]

Do you mind elaborating a bit more? I’m not a technical expert and wow, flames look shiny to me...

See my above posts about compressor stall - it’s akin to an internal combustion engine backfiring and picture above by aviatorinsight

 

[straitman]

See my above posts about compressor stall - it’s akin to an internal combustion engine backfiring and picture above by aviatorinsight

The one thing it does mean though is that the stalling engine is now not providing its share of the thrust which in a twin is a sudden 50% power loss. If nothing else it gets the pilots pretty busy for a little while.

 

[Quickstatus]

AA publicly affirming full confidence in its 737M8 fleet, and MI will continue operating its fleet.

...

I thought it would be relatively quick - they probably only had to search an area 100 x 100 metres unfortunately

Currently being reported that eye witnesses have said it did along with the very contained debris field indicating a steep dive.

CNN saying that the "crater" is the size of a "basketball court"

Edit - though some are suggesting the crater is post excavation

 

[calmelb]

Absolutely. Looks like a massive flame coming from the rear. View attachment 156844

If you’re claiming that this is a picture of the aircraft involved then that’s wrong. ET has a white livery plus the B737Max has V shaped winglets whereas that picture is just stubby wings

 

[mannej]

If you’re claiming that this is a picture of the aircraft involved then that’s wrong. ET has a white livery plus the B737Max has V shaped winglets whereas that picture is just stubby wings

I don’t think there is any claim from AI that the image is anything other than an illustration of a compressor stall without any specific claim that it is the ET flight in question

 

[NZflygirl]

Unverified eyewitness account of fire from rear of ET302 prior to crash.

Can a compressor stall give this appearance?

On the news in NZ an eyewitness account said no fire in the air. I realise they can be unreliable though.

Am happy they've found the boxes although one report was one at least partially damaged. Hope they can pull all the info they need.

Edit: Just saw mannejs comment.

 

[calmelb]

I don’t think there is any claim from AI that the image is anything other than an illustration of a compressor stall without any specific claim that it is the ET flight in question

Apologies, my reading of it (of which I was not paying 100% concentration to the post) was that it was a "previously unseen photo" of the flight, since those do seem to do the rounds after a incident of any sort

 

[juddles]

I don't think I can recall a single aviation crash in history without at least one person coming forward and claiming they saw it on fire.

 

[Quickstatus]

And the serendipity of the passengers who are glad they missed their flight - like this guy:
https://www.smh.com.au/world/africa...-doomed-ethiopian-flight-20190312-p513fc.html

 

[bPeteb]

Just out of interests sake, apart from jb, who on AFF is a commercial jet pilot, or aeronautical engineer? For me a very interesting, and sad thread. So much conjecture, as there always will be when a plane goes down, with the expert knowledge of jb tempering much of it. Thanks jb.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Just out of interests sake, apart from jb, who on AFF is a commercial jet pilot, or aeronautical engineer? For me a very interesting, and sad thread. So much conjecture, as there always will be when a plane goes down, with the expert knowledge of jb tempering much of it. Thanks jb.

I believe @AviatorInsight is a 737 pilot. (and one that will likely be flying these Max 8's in coming months)

 

[AviatorInsight]

What is the performance implication at that altitude, if I may ask?

Not a great deal. Even if the engine was at idle it would still be producing thrust compared to a shut down engine with high drag. The 737 can maintain altitude at 20,000 on one engine that is shut down at maximum weight.

There are 3 types of compressor stall:

1. The engine recovers itself requiring no crew action.
2. The engine recovers after crew action has been taken, i.e. slowly reducing the thrust lever until indications are within limits again then re applying the thrust. Should the surge happen again, then flight with a reduced thrust setting may be needed.
3. The unrecoverable surge. It continues even after the thrust lever is at idle. In this case it would be necessary to shut the engine down.

If you’re claiming that this is a picture of the aircraft involved then that’s wrong. ET has a white livery plus the B737Max has V shaped winglets whereas that picture is just stubby wings

Never claimed that at all. I know the difference between a 767 and a 737.

 

[AviatorInsight]

Just out of interests sake, apart from jb, who on AFF is a commercial jet pilot, or aeronautical engineer? For me a very interesting, and sad thread. So much conjecture, as there always will be when a plane goes down, with the expert knowledge of jb tempering much of it. Thanks jb.

As Swanning_It has correctly said, I am a current 737 pilot. Questions always arise during aircraft accidents/incidents and that's not necessarily a bad thing, it gets the community talking and understanding more about these machines. I'm more than happy to answer them as best I can without introducing conjecture. What I don't like, is people saying "they should have done that and all would have been ok" without any hard evidence (which I'm happy to say doesn't happen often around here).

 

[Must...Fly!]

Not a great deal. Even if the engine was at idle it would still be producing thrust compared to a shut down engine with high drag. The 737 can maintain altitude at 20,000 on one engine that is shut down at maximum weight.

There are 3 types of compressor stall:

1. The engine recovers itself requiring no crew action.
2. The engine recovers after crew action has been taken, i.e. slowly reducing the thrust lever until indications are within limits again then re applying the thrust. Should the surge happen again, then flight with a reduced thrust setting may be needed.
3. The unrecoverable surge. It continues even after the thrust lever is at idle. In this case it would be necessary to shut the engine down.

Great information, thank you. I guess I was curious about the implication on the climb rate with terrain around but given your information above, I think something else has happened or at least contributed here.

Hopefully the integrity of the recorders is not compromised - one has been reported as "damaged".

 

[drron]

So now Indonesia has grounded their Maxs.Some airlines,not majors,also stopping flying them.
More Countries & Airlines Ground 737 MAX - One Mile at a Time

 

[AviatorInsight]

Great information, thank you. I guess I was curious about the implication on the climb rate with terrain around but given your information above, I think something else has happened or at least contributed here.

Ah right, a normal 737NG would still do around 1000fpm at that altitude (side note I got a compressor stall out of VLI in the last sim check at 7000ft). With the Leap1B? I'm not sure. I believe they claim the thrust is more than a CFM56, but I won't know until I get the books and see it first hand.

 

[jb747]

Do you mind elaborating a bit more? I’m not a technical expert and wow, flames look shiny to me...

Jet engines are always on fire when they are running. It’s just that you can’t normally see the flames. But, if you disrupt the normal airflow, they can become visible.

Even a dual engine failure won’t cause the aircraft to crash out of a steep dive. It would be much more like a landing gone wrong. I don’t see anything here that says engine.

 

[Must...Fly!]

So now Indonesia has grounded their Maxs.Some airlines,not majors,also stopping flying them.
More Countries & Airlines Ground 737 MAX - One Mile at a Time

Meanwhile, FAA issuing a directive that the aircraft is still airworthy. FAA will issue notice that Boeing 737 MAX planes are still airworthy: Source