Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[Deleted member 29185]

Singapore suspends 737 Max operations into and out of country

I'm now left wondering how these airlines deal with the lack of planes vrs scheduled routes, lease payments, customer angst? I guess "how long" is a silly question, but I'm trying to weigh the length of time to carry out an exhaustive investigation against the need to get the planes back in the air. I read somewhere that the Lion report isn't due until later this year. So how long can an airline (or Boeing) afford to have sizable portions of their fleet grounded?

The next thing we'll see are the so-called aviation experts coming out in the media to say there is no problem as all pilots should know how to deal with xyz ... just like we did with the Lion air disaster.

 

[Franky]

I believe only 80 of the 350 737 Maxs delivered have gone to the USA.There was a link that Boeing put out about deliveries but no longer working.

Only 80? That's almost 25% of them...

 

[Quickstatus]

It would be a very brave CEO to be the "last man standing"

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I'm now left wondering how these airlines deal with the lack of planes vrs scheduled routes, lease payments, customer angst? I guess "how long" is a silly question, but I'm trying to weigh the length of time to carry out an exhaustive investigation against the need to get the planes back in the air. I read somewhere that the Lion report isn't due until later this year. So how long can an airline (or Boeing) afford to have sizable portions of their fleet grounded?

I wonder if airlines insure against this type of stuff?

 

[NZflygirl]

I'm now left wondering how these airlines deal with the lack of planes vrs scheduled routes, lease payments, customer angst? I guess "how long" is a silly question, but I'm trying to weigh the length of time to carry out an exhaustive investigation against the need to get the planes back in the air. I read somewhere that the Lion report isn't due until later this year. So how long can an airline (or Boeing) afford to have sizable portions of their fleet grounded?

The next thing we'll see are the so-called aviation experts coming out in the media to say there is no problem as all pilots should know how to deal with xyz ... just like we did with the Lion air disaster.

At least until preliminary info is out from the black boxes? There's also a MAX software update scheduled for April.

 

[kelvedon]

Singapore has temporarily banned the 737 Max from its airspace.
Singapore bars Boeing 737 Max planes

 

[juddles]

.....a MAX software update....

That sounds terrifying.......

 

[AIRwin]

Singapore has temporarily banned the 737 Max from its airspace.
Singapore bars Boeing 737 Max planes

This leaves FJ:
Only one airline is still flying Boeing's 737 MAX 8 in Australia

 

[Deleted member 29185]

There's also a MAX software update scheduled for April.

Yes, but that software update was developed exclusive of any issues that might be found with the Ethiopian investigation. I've got a niggling doubt about these Max aircraft. I bought a brand new Ford Transit 14 years ago that was built in Turkey. I've still got it, but for the first five years it was plagued with issues from the major (poorly designed timing tensioner which had the tendency to allow the timing chain to jump off and crack the head, which failed twice within 15000 km's) right down to the annoying (wiring harness and fuse boxes that didn't match the owners manual) and included many, many mid range faults (clutch failures, dual mass flywheel failures, short circuits) and Ford is a big company, but that Transit taught me even big companies have dogs and once a dog, always a dog. These Max 8's are beginning to bark!

 

[Berlin]

According to CNN, Fiji will stick to flying their 787 Max. Ethiopian Airlines plane crash: Live updates - CNN

I was contemplating a flight over to Nadi but will hold off until we know more. With Fiji Airways' tendency to change aircraft types at the last minute, that just feels too risky for me atm.

"The safety of our passengers and crew is, and always will be, our number one priority." Well, if that was the case, they'd ground this one plane until we know for sure that it's not a systemic issue with the Max.

 

[p--and--t]

I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but for some reason this accident and the Lion Air accident both sound (to a total industry outsider that has no knowledge of aircraft systems) very similar to QF72. An aircraft that decided to pitch down suddenly on its own a couple of times without manual inputs due to a faulty sensor and/or software.

Lots of comment on this board throwing bile at Boeing a couple intimating the B737Max is a total lemon.

A330's aren't from Boeing and I didn't see A330's being grounded all over the world.

Perhaps because nobody died - but 315 certainly could have if it wasn't for QF pilot intervention.

 

[RooFlyer]

Boeing confident in safety of 737 MAX 8 but announces design changes after Ethiopian Airlines crash.

Boeing has announced plans to upgrade software in its 737 MAX 8 planes "in the coming weeks", as regulators scrutinise two fatal crashes of the new model of aircraft since October.

The move to deploy the software upgrade came a few hours after the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said it would mandate "design changes" in the aircraft by April.

In making the statement, Boeing did not reference Sunday's Ethiopian Airlines crash but it did express the company's condolences to the relatives of the 157 people who died.

The United States has said the Boeing 737 MAX 8 is airworthy, as regulators scrutinise the Ethiopian Airlines crash and the crash of a Lion Air jet in Indonesia on October 29, which killed all 189 people on board.

 

[flyer89]

I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but for some reason this accident and the Lion Air accident both sound (to a total industry outsider that has no knowledge of aircraft systems) very similar to QF72. An aircraft that decided to pitch down suddenly on its own a couple of times without manual inputs due to a faulty sensor and/or software.

I wouldn’t have liked to have seen some other A330 operators deal with the QF72 incident. It’s an incident not talked about often but one that would’ve most likely been fatal in the wrong hands.

 

[woodborer]

I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but for some reason this accident and the Lion Air accident both sound (to a total industry outsider that has no knowledge of aircraft systems) very similar to QF72. An aircraft that decided to pitch down suddenly on its own a couple of times without manual inputs due to a faulty sensor and/or software.

Lots of comment on this board throwing bile at Boeing a couple intimating the B737Max is a total lemon.

A330's aren't from Boeing and I didn't see A330's being grounded all over the world.

Perhaps because nobody died - but 315 certainly could have if it wasn't for QF pilot intervention.

Ultimately, there was a design limitation in the A330 system, as with the 737.

But the Airbus response was different.

Airbus went off and fixed the problem.

Boeing thumped its chest and said learn to fly our planes, even if we designed a bad system we didn't tell you about.

 

[flyer89]

The story goes that Boeing were going to put an end to the patchwork quilt that is the 737 and were seriously considering building an entirely new aircraft. Apparently there hand was forced when American Airlines made a gigantic A320neo/ceo order and Boeing then decided to re-engine the 737 in order to get a share of the AA pie. I assume Southwest’s influence played a role as well.

 

[OATEK]

Talk on TV news that Australian authorities have banned the 7M8 from our airspace. Can't find a link yet.

 

[NZflygirl]

Yes, but that software update was developed exclusive of any issues that might be found with the Ethiopian investigation. !

That’s right.

I’m keen to know the info from the ‘black boxes’. Found this article interesting. There’s a special committee to listen to the recordings and only after the US hearing can the transcript be released. But this is Ethiopia so don’t know what their procedures are.

Ethiopian Airlines crash: What is the 'black box' on planes?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It is interesting the countries / Airlines saying 'yes our fleet is safe' and other countries grounding it. Presumably they're all making decisions with the same information but coming up with considerably different outcomes!!

I think this is a really positive step. If we learned any lessons from MH17 it is that an airline can't blindly rely on 'what someone esle says' when it comes to safety. You need to do your own analysis and reach your own conclusions. And you should always err on the side of caution.

Well done to those airlines prepared to bite the bullet here.

 

[NZflygirl]

Talk on TV news that Australian authorities have banned the 7M8 from our airspace. Can't find a link yet.

Australia suspends Boeing 737 MAX flights

Only really affects Fiji airways though given Silk Air MAX are grounded already.

On the NZ news authorities said after reviewing FJs processes they were fine keeping them flying to NZ.

 

[Melburnian1]

Virgin refusing to comment other than still planning to take delivery, while other airlines and countries ground the aircraft...

That was true when you wrote it, but 'The Australian' website has a paywalled story indicating that VA is having 'second thought.' I haven't provided a link as that would merely see viewers hit the paywall.

And here's another perspective from a respected business writer (though not an aviation specialist) from the Nine Group (former Fairfax Media):

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/bu...resh-look-at-max-8-order-20190312-p513jh.html