General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[mviy]

The influenza vaccine is only effective if the mix Type of virus selected by the authorities is the same as the influenza virus you catch.

And they are guessing, so some years the vaccine is a lot better than others. It's obviously better than not being vaccinated.

I'm waiting for the bivalent vaccine to be available (it's available starting on Monday, but it'll take time for stocks of the old vaccine to get depleted everywhere).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So being vaccinated doesn't have much effect on whether covid affects you seriously or not.

So from next week mandatory isolation ends. If you have covid and you don't have sick leave you can tell your boss you're coming to work and you're going to wear a mask. But masks are useless right?

Apparently it's now OK to pass on covid to anyone and if they get sick or die tough luck.

What a sad world. If it was possible I'd like to get off af the next stop and go somewhere that uses common sense. It seems there's none left here.

Hopefully they'll find a vaccine that works but I'm not holding my breath.

I dunno. The vaccine doesn’t stop you getting infected, but I’m ok to believe it stops many people from getting seriously sick. Look at pre-vaccine hospitals and deaths compared to post vaccine. Yeah, the new variants might be less lethal, but the relative numbers are down.

Not a nice way to die from covid.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Just thought I'd burst this bubble before it gets inflated on AFF. There was a hearing in European Parliament earlier this week where Pfizer executives were pressed on the vaccine they developed for COVID 19. Amongst the question asked was whether they had evidence the vaccine could stop transmission at the time, and the executive said no:

The fact that the MP asking the question had a sign that was anti-vax attached to his laptop tells you all you need to know about the motivations. Instead of being thankful for getting the relatively safe vaccine rolled out so soon allowing their economies and society to reopen in months and not many years, this is the thanks they get! And worst of all they keep amplifying this false narrative that the vaccines cannot stop transmission - nothing can be further from the truth. I have yet to see a single study published in any journal that has found that across the board, regardless of which vaccine you got, you are still at risk from getting COVID. Indeed, a recent study of Novavax found quite the opposite: robust protection across all sub-variants of Omicron: Novavax NVX-COV2373 triggers potent neutralization of Omicron sub-lineages

-RooFlyer88

 

[Oneworldplus2]

The media in the USA pushed the narrative that if you get the jab, you won't transmit COVID-19 to other people.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

John, l think this may be of assistance to you

We are soon going to treat COVID19 the way we treated the flu in 2007, as part of life

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The media in the USA pushed the narrative that if you get the jab, you won't transmit COVID-19 to other people.

I think that’s partially right though… at least indirectly. With the jab you are less likely to get seriously ill and have to go to hospital. Without needing to go to hospital you have less interaction to be able to spread it. I thought as well, perhaps mistakingly, that with the jab you might have a lower viral load, and therefore less likely to spread it?

Not the same as ending transmission, but i’m not sure that really was the message here in Australia?

There seems to be a lot of ‘reading into’ the statements made by politicians and CMOs. And those statements were when getting covid could be quite serious.

 

[Pushka]

John, l think this may be of assistance to you

We are soon going to treat COVID19 the way we treated the flu in 2007, as part of life

It will do the opposite I think.

 

[JohnK]

John, l think this may be of assistance to you

We are soon going to treat COVID19 the way we treated the flu in 2007, as part of life

With all due respect that is about as dumb as it gets.

We mismanaged the flu for 100+ years and now doing the same with Covid.

Humanity is sad. Human deserves to become extinct. I have nothing nice to say....

 

[N860CR]

I think that’s partially right though… at least indirectly. With the jab you are less likely to get seriously ill and have to go to hospital. Without needing to go to hospital you have less interaction to be able to spread it. I thought as well, perhaps mistakingly, that with the jab you might have a lower viral load, and therefore less likely to spread it?

Not the same as ending transmission, but i’m not sure that really was the message here in Australia?

There seems to be a lot of ‘reading into’ the statements made by politicians and CMOs. And those statements were when getting covid could be quite serious.

So why did we lock people out of restaurants, bars, sporting venues etc (and more critically strip people of their careers) because they weren’t vaccinated?

 

[N860CR]

With all due respect that is about as dumb as it gets.

We mismanaged the flu for 100+ years and now doing the same with Covid.

Humanity is sad. Human deserves to become extinct. I have nothing nice to say....

I don’t know why I’m bothering… but in the world according to JohnK, how should we have managed the flu over the last 100 years?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So why did we lock people out of restaurants, bars, sporting venues etc (and more critically strip people of their careers) because they weren’t vaccinated?

From a study published in The Lancet, October 2021:

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.​

Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully...

www.thelancet.com

 

[Oneworldplus2]

So does the above mean, with breakthrough cases, been vaccinated doesn't make a difference in transmission?

 

[drron]

From a study published in The Lancet, October 2021:

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.​

Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully...

www.thelancet.com

Though the study that I linked last week showed that with Omicron there was npo statistical difference to infection whether vaccinated or not as well as risk of hospitalisation.

 

[JohnK]

I don’t know why I’m bothering… but in the world according to JohnK, how should we have managed the flu over the last 100 years?

So in the world of JohnK if you are sick stay home.

How quick we forget and ignore. Someone goes into an office Monday morning sick and by Friday 15 staff are sick and who knows how many other family members. It's only a cold right? It's only the flu right?

Your harmless cough, sneeze, sniffles, runny nose can put someone out for weeks or months. Some die. But that's OK right as long as you survive unscathed?

I know I'm 100% right with flu/colds and now covid but you continue to try and push some meaningless agenda about freedom and the ability to make individual decisions.

Humanity pretends to understand caring and compassion but they understand neither.

The whole model of civilisation and community is based on the needs of everyone not individuals. People are suffering and some are dying.

When did collateral damage become acceptable?

 

[N860CR]

So in the world of JohnK if you are sick stay home.

How quick we forget and ignore. Someone goes into an office Monday morning sick and by Friday 15 staff are sick and who knows how many other family members. It's only a cold right? It's only the flu right?

Your harmless cough, sneeze, sniffles, runny nose can put someone out for weeks or months. Some die. But that's OK right as long as you survive unscathed?

I know I'm 100% right with flu/colds and now covid but you continue to try and push some meaningless agenda about freedom and the ability to make individual decisions.

Humanity pretends to understand caring and compassion but they understand neither.

The whole model of civilisation and community is based on the needs of everyone not individuals. People are suffering and some are dying.

When did collateral damage become acceptable?

Ok… so your claim is that we have been mishandling influenza for 100 years because people don’t stay home when they’re sick? How do you propose we rectify that? You seem to be of the bizarre opinion that we can eradicate all illness and disease. As someone who frequents Pattaya, I’m sure you can see how that’s simply not possible.

Post automatically merged: Oct 18, 2022

From a study published in The Lancet, October 2021:

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory.​

Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study

Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully...

www.thelancet.com

We know that vaccination doesn’t prevent infection. So the question still stands.

 

[JohnK]

Ok… so your claim is that we have been mishandling influenza for 100 years because people don’t stay home when they’re sick? How do you propose we rectify that? You seem to be of the bizarre opinion that we can eradicate all illness and disease. As someone who frequents Pattaya, I’m sure you can see how that’s simply not possible.

It is possible. Forced measures should be a prerequisite of being allowed to be part of society. Harsh? Not as harsh as people suffering and dying.

We've done quite alright with lots of viruses. No need for me to list them here.

Chicken pox. Apart from vulnerable children is there a reason why all children are not vaccinated?

How about measles, mumps, rubella etc? Why are parents allowed to not vaccinate their kids?

What's wrong with flu vaccine? It's very effective and with the added measures of the past 2.5 years the number of infections have decreased. That has to be a good thing right?

We are never going to agree.

Why do we spend millions if not billions on campaigns to save people from dying on the road. What's the national death toll? 1,500? 5,000?

Why are we throwing away money trying to save people from heart disease, diabetes, cancer etc but then say it's OK to die from flu. It's OK to die from covid.

It makes very little sense. These perceived freedoms people crave make little sense.

 

[drron]

So forced measures are fine. Well @JohnK you seem to willingly accept collateral damage from those measures. Here is what an observant physician posted on AFF back on May 6th 2020.

"What stood out about this week was seeing the effects of lock down.Of those 14 new admissions 2 were due to worsening of chronic liver disease due to increased alcohol intake.One was alcoholic hepatitis,one overdose.
And 2 sad cases.both older women.One with a history of mental illness who had a great network of friends who visited her regularly.that stopped so she was found in the street Sunday morning having gone out,didn't know where she was and nearly succumbed with hypothermia.
The second was a woman who lived alone.normally visited regularly by family and Community Nurses.Community nursing has had to reduce the frequency of visits and family didn't want to put her at risk.Unfortunately a fall soon after daughter left and 48 hours on the floor suffering rhabdomyolysis with acute kidney failure.She did survive but will have a long stay in Rehab.
And 2 older fellows with known mental illness who took to the drink and went off their meds.

We are paying a big but virtually silent price for these restrictions."

Drron goes viral.

Brisbane Times today = EXCLUSIVE - Qld doctor to run pop-up hospital in coronavirus-hit Tasmania Ah! So its QLDMAT, not AUSMAT. ;) Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the Queensland government was more than happy to help its southern counterpart. “Queensland has so far done an outstanding...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Then on 17/5/2020 in the same thread.
"The rest of the week went well.but another admission due to lockdown.Had been booked to have his carotid artery cleared at the beginning of April.Cancelled as elective.So now he has had his stroke."

I guess you were happy with collateral damage back then.

 

[JohnK]

I guess you were happy with collateral damage back then.

Self inflicted?

So we're comparing people who can't cope with changes around them with intentional spread of a highly transmissable virus?

I remember in the beginning people advocating that we just let covid run rampant so the economy doesn't suffer and young people didn't have to suffer to restrictions. That was an awful idea.

And nearly 3 years on we've learnt nothing as that is what we're doing anyway.

I'd hate to think what would happen if there was a global war like WWII. Most wouldn't survive due to their inability to adapt not casualties of war.

We live in a sad world.

 

[Pushka]

Self inflicted?

What?

It seems to me that definition of lack of humanity and likely selfishness is those who only care about illnesses which they may catch from others, but no concern for those who are at great risk from developing other medical issues, sometimes as a direct consequence of lockdowns etc, or the exacerbation of their illnesses because of those same restrictions. And many of those illnesses having nothing whatsoever to do with anything they have done in their lives.

 

[drron]

John there is nothing self inflicted with the majority of those with dementia or mental illness. Their acute presentations were due to people like you inflicting lockdowns and social isolation upon them without any regard to their situations.

Sorry but your response comes across As being from someone who has no empathy for the plight of others and caring for only themselves. I know you are not like that But that is how many will think.

General lockdowns were not a part of any pandemic plans before 2020. they should once again not be a pert of any pandemic plan post covid.