General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[DC3]

Re Blood clotting
A question for the AFF medicos: If you are on 100 mg of aspirin daily, will this counter the probability of getting the blood clots?

I would not be seeking such medical advice on public forums. I would see my usual doctor to discuss. But that’s just me.

 

[jakeseven7]

Exactly.
I don’t have much faith in the two incompetent supply chain companies though unfortunately

Supply is the issue.
Don’t have the answers as we only sit on part of the delivery chain but the vaccine jabbers are not the issue.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

There isn’t any question we have the manpower to do it it’s about the supply I just don’t understand why people don’t understand this.

It's a supply issue at the moment, but there have also got to be questions around the delivery once supply comes on line. Sending 50-200 doses to thousands of GP clinics seems less efficient than sending thousands of doses to just 50 mass vaccination centres?

However, the GP body saying they can do 6 million in 6 weeks is fairly impressive.

 

[jakeseven7]

It's a supply issue at the moment, but there have also got to be questions around the delivery once supply comes on line. Sending 50-200 doses to thousands of GP clinics seems less efficient than sending thousands of doses to just 50 mass vaccination centres?

However, the GP body saying they can do 6 million in 6 weeks is fairly impressive.

Who cares about efficient we just want it done fast and furious and safely. Trust me none of this is efficient, it’s costing a bomb.

Plus if you haven’t noticed with the exception of VIC and NSW, no state is really ready anyway.

 

[burmans]

Late 2021, or early 2022, is looking promising. Just need to get the vax into arms.

Not so optimistic on the vaccine rollout here. So we’ve been told the new stretch target for vaccinations is 400k a month (bearing I mind to date we have vaccinated less than 20% of target). 2b has 6M people times 2 doses, that’s 30 weeks, ie end October for 2b alone. At that rate it will be mid to end 2022 at best- we need to be looking at 1m plus a week to be fully vaccinated by 1st Q next year, not optimistic!!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not so optimistic on the vaccine rollout here. So we’ve been told the new stretch target for vaccinations is 400k a month (bearing I mind to date we have vaccinated less than 20% of target). 2b has 6M people times 2 doses, that’s 30 weeks, ie end October for 2b alone. At that rate it will be mid to end 2022 at best- we need to be looking at 1m plus a week to be fully vaccinated by 1st Q next year, not optimistic!!

We're doing roughly 70K a day now (or 400K a week)... and that's without GPs, pharmacies and mass vaccination centres fully up and running (some are open, but empty, waiting for frontline and healthcare workers).

I posted in the other thread that the GP guild reckons they did 6 million flu vaccinations in 6 weeks... so a million a week. Allowing for extra time and infrastructure for covid vaccines, even 1/3 of that would go a long way towards the 1m total a week we need.

 

[hb13]

We're doing roughly 70K a day now (or 400K a week)... and that's without GPs, pharmacies and mass vaccination centres fully up and running (some are open, but empty, waiting for frontline and healthcare workers).

I posted in the other thread that the GP guild reckons they did 6 million flu vaccinations in 6 weeks... so a million a week. Allowing for extra time and infrastructure for covid vaccines, even 1/3 of that would go a long way towards the 1m total a week we need.

The government has planned to do all adults by the end of October. Assuming that is about 40 million doses, they have to do 1.3 million per week. And that's if we started at that rate tomorrow. Assuming this takes a couple more weeks to sort out (lets say mid-April at the very earliest), and accounting for undoubtedly occasional dips in supply and any hiccups in the next few months - they need to be doing 1.4 - 1.5 million per week.

How is the government anywhere even remotely close to their target? If they manage to somehow hit a million per week in the next few weeks, we are looking at Jan/Feb at the earliest.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The government has planned to do all adults by the end of October. Assuming that is about 40 million doses, they have to do 1.3 million per week. And that's if we started at that rate tomorrow. Assuming this takes a couple more weeks to sort out (lets say mid-April at the very earliest), and accounting for undoubtedly occasional dips in supply and any hiccups in the next few months - they need to be doing 1.4 - 1.5 million per week.

How is the government anywhere even remotely close to their target? If they manage to somehow hit a million per week in the next few weeks, we are looking at Jan/Feb at the earliest.

Agree. The government has revised their target to the first dose only by end October. So that leaves a fair chunk to be completed in Nov/Dec/Jan.

However, I think they will still be promising to get aussies home by Christmas, with an argument that those under 50 are at lower risk and will have some protection from their first dose.

 

[ethernet]

I see it as economic warfare - the county perceived to recover first - wins big. USA Israel and Singapore get it. Vaccinate furiously, and have a plan B - a third booster for variants ready. Australia is in Clark Kent mode, apparently willing to take more lockdown hits, and more ruffle employment issues for those who choose to delay, and leave it to chance for those who missed the bus. See tip of spear front-line spouses.

Heparin-induced thrombocytopenia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Princess Fiona]

I would not be seeking such medical advice on public forums. I would see my usual doctor to discuss. But that’s just me.

The reply by @drron is factual and very accurate. Its a generic response about Aspirin prevention of blood clotting and is not tailored to any person or persons specifically. But I agree with your general premise that seeking detailed medical opinions on the specifics of an individual case is fraught with danger. The OP didn’t do this.

 

[jakeseven7]

Well... it may be home quarantine. We'll have to wait and see about the effect of variants and the current vaccine.

We don’t have to wait to see the effect of some of the variants. The vaccines are not that effective already against a couple of the dominant new strains in terms of stopping transmission. In terms of preventing serious illness so far so good.

So again, at some point we will need to decide when to let COVID back into Australia. Because people are going to get it.

 

[Anna]

Blood clotting. Isn’t that a stroke?

I thought I heard on last night's news that these particular clots were abdominal

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I thought I heard on last night's news that these particular clots were abdominal

That's my understanding too.

Supposedly an 'extremely rare' condition. But has happened in multiple cases just a few hours after receiving the vaccine. And yet authorities aren't sure of a link. Sounds confusing to the lay person.

If authorities want to assure patients they perhaps should have provided some figures on the occurrence of the clotting condition pre-vaccine.

 

[Pushka]

That's my understanding too.

Supposedly an 'extremely rare' condition. But has happened in multiple cases just a few hours after receiving the vaccine. And yet authorities aren't sure of a link. Sounds confusing to the lay person.

If authorities want to assure patients they perhaps should have provided some figures on the occurrence of the clotting condition pre-vaccine.

This particular case happened well over a week after vaccination.

Clots only cause strokes if they arise or lodge in the brain. They can occur anywhere and they can also move, if a venous one and it breaks off they can lodge in the lung and become a PE.

In our family we have a known blood clotting disorder discovered first with me but now, I look at my mother and grandmother and they too had signs of minor strokes long before they had their major one but that was many years ago. My niece who inherited this condition also, and in her thirties was on aspirin as she had markers in her blood that were being watched, and was on preventive aspirin. She developed a DVT in her pelvis, and she like me, is now on anticoagulants. We have both had AZ vaccine.

 

[Pushka]

We don’t have to wait to see the effect of some of the variants. The vaccines are not that effective already against a couple of the dominant new strains in terms of stopping transmission. In terms of preventing serious illness so far so good.

So again, at some point we will need to decide when to let COVID back into Australia. Because people are going to get it.

I think we might all have to move the NSW then because, well, we know WA, and SA is off to an election in March 2022 and we all know that that means for border closures.

Amended with a ,

 

[drron]

Well the first variant vaccine is now being trialled.Moderna vaccine for the SA variant.

NIH clinical trial evaluating Moderna COVID-19 variant vaccine begins

Early-stage trial to evaluate safety and immunogenicity.

www.nih.gov

 

[drron]

We don’t have to wait to see the effect of some of the variants. The vaccines are not that effective already against a couple of the dominant new strains in terms of stopping transmission. In terms of preventing serious illness so far so good.

So again, at some point we will need to decide when to let COVID back into Australia. Because people are going to get it.

But the first variant vaccine - against the SA variant - has begun trials.

NIH clinical trial evaluating Moderna COVID-19 variant vaccine begins

Early-stage trial to evaluate safety and immunogenicity.

www.nih.gov

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This particular case happened well over a week after vaccination.

Clots only cause strokes if they arise or lodge in the brain. They can occur anywhere and they can also move, if a venous one and it breaks off they can lodge in the lung and become a PE.

In our family we have a known blood clotting disorder discovered first with me but now, I look at my mother and grandmother and they too had signs of minor strokes long before they had their major one but that was many years ago. My niece who inherited this condition also, and in her thirties was on aspirin as she had markers in her blood that were being watched, and was on preventive aspirin. She developed a DVT in her pelvis, and she like me, is now on anticoagulants. We have both had AZ vaccine.

Ok, but there have also been multiple cases in Europe. If this type of blood clotting is 'extremely rare', we haven't been given a benchmark... normal instances of this clotting pre-vaccine times, and occurrence rate during covid vaccine. Nine people died in Europe from the clotting.

 

[Pushka]

Ok, but there have also been multiple cases in Europe. If this type of blood clotting is 'extremely rare', we haven't been given a benchmark... normal instances of this clotting pre-vaccine times, and occurrence rate during covid vaccine. Nine people died in Europe from the clotting.

In a normal day we wouldn’t hear of any. Because no one really bothers reporting it in the media. Other than AZ times no one cares. Rare doesn’t say much to me - what I’ve got is called a rare disease, APS, but niece and next door neighbour both have it.

 

[drron]

Ok, but there have also been multiple cases in Europe. If this type of blood clotting is 'extremely rare', we haven't been given a benchmark... normal instances of this clotting pre-vaccine times, and occurrence rate during covid vaccine. Nine people died in Europe from the clotting.

Though a UK report did say if the rate of this type of clotting was the same as in Germany then they should have seen 150 cases in the UK.The numbers are about 20% of that.