General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[DC3]

RE the vaccine rollout in the US - isn't one of the factors of it going badly to improving dramatically due to a change of president and administration? ...

What a difference a new administration makes.

Edited

 

[drron]

Okay, but he handled it horribly, as he has no competence. I think it is pretty clear to the world that he hasn't got a clue, but this article proves that: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/28/...-fauci-birx-hahn-redfield-gupta-bn/index.html



This is categorically and 100% false. The first vaccine to be approved and used worldwide was the Pfizer vaccine, which was made in conjunction with Bio n Tech in Germany. They didn't accept a penny from the government and didn't rely on the government in any way, shape or form.

Yes if you believe everything Pfizer says.
Operation Warp Speed spent $10 billion.Pfizer got 1.95 billion of that for supply of the vaccine.The Government unlike contracts with other vaccine producers got no rights to the Intellectual property which is why Pfizer says they received nothing for research.But $1.95 billion gives you a lot of confidence to spend up big on research.
Remember BNT initially had no production capacity.It supplied most of the research but needed Pfizer to market and bring the vaccine to market.

 

[hb13]

Yes if you believe everything Pfizer says.
Operation Warp Speed spent $10 billion.Pfizer got 1.95 billion of that for supply of the vaccine.The Government unlike contracts with other vaccine producers got no rights to the Intellectual property which is why Pfizer says they received nothing for research.But $1.95 billion gives you a lot of confidence to spend up big on research.
Remember BNT initially had no production capacity.It supplied most of the research but needed Pfizer to market and bring the vaccine to market.

Believe Pfizer or the Trump administration? I think I know my choice.

This idea that Trump is the reason we have vaccines is just as believable as his many ridiculous claims, one of which he "has a natural ability in understanding the disease". Give me a break.

And you want to talk numbers, a promise to pay you 2 billion dollars upon successful completion of this vaccine is a good incentive, however, Pfizer has an annual revenue of about 40 billion dollars. I'm fairly sure they realised the need for vaccines before June 2020 and how lucrative it would be.

 

[drron]

And I have experienced the Pfizer spin for 50 years and I place no value on virtually all they say.
And it is not only Trump supporters that credit Operation Warp Speed as a necessary step in getting vaccines to the market in a far shorter time than usual.
But not only was it ambitious it actual beat the optimistic prediction of having a vaccine available by January 2021.

Coronavirus: DOD Response

The Defense Department is working closely with the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Health and Human Services and the State Department to provide support in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic.

www.defense.gov

And here are 2 press releases a week before Biden was inaugurated detailing the increased distribution capacity for the vaccines and the progress of vaccinations with it being on schedule to reach 1 million vaccinations a day in 10 days from then.In fact the vaccinations in the USA have ramped up exactly as planned.

Largest Multi-Site Distribution Complex in DOD Delivers for Operation Warp Speed

Defense Logistics Agency Distribution began shipping Moderna COVID-19 vaccine to Defense Department employees outside the continental U.S. as part of the Operation Warp Speed mission.

www.defense.gov

Officials Discuss COVID-19 Vaccine Deliveries, Prioritization Criteria

There's been significant progress in getting the COVID-19 vaccines out to the states, Operation Warp Speed's chief operating officer said.

www.defense.gov

But if you want to believe Pfizer spin and inaccurate media reporting go ahead and believe in St.Joe.I certainly won't be able to change your mind.

 

[Must...Fly!]

ABC reports a 44 year old male is in Box Hill Hospital with blood clotting. Received the AZ jab about a week ago.

Now what they haven't reported in this sensationalist click bait headline is the general health of the individual and any other medical conditions he may have.

To be in phase 1b he is likely either an essential worker or has some kind of relevant medical history.

 

[Pushka]

ABC reports a 44 year old male is in Box Hill Hospital with blood clotting. Received the AZ jab about a week ago.

Now what they haven't reported in this sensationalist click bait headline is the general health of the individual and any other medical conditions he may have.

To be in phase 1b he is likely either an essential worker or has some kind of relevant medical history.

And people are admitted to casualty with blood clots every day, usually two or three per shift apparently.

 

[jakeseven7]

ABC reports a 44 year old male is in Box Hill Hospital with blood clotting. Received the AZ jab about a week ago.

Now what they haven't reported in this sensationalist click bait headline is the general health of the individual and any other medical conditions he may have.

To be in phase 1b he is likely either an essential worker or has some kind of relevant medical history.

Yawn, higher chance of getting blood clots with COVID anyway. Blood clots present in people all the time.

I really wish the media would stop documenting every little sore arm story that people have in reaction to vaccine, we don’t publisicse all the reactions people have to other vaccines and I can tell you there are some interesting adverse events every single season.

 

[drron]

But it is surprising that it seems to be only the one vaccine which has the spotlight put on it when the Pfizer trials had more severe vaccine reactions especially to the second shot.
"Flinders University professor of medicine Nikolai Petrovsky says it's not "surprising" to hear about these anecdotal reports, especially off the back of Pfizer's own research.

"This came out in their phase three clinical trials — it was very clear that there were very high numbers of severe reactions after the second dose," he explains.'

This was in an article about a Canberra Emergency physician who had such a reaction.

As a doctor, David is used to vaccines. But then he had the second Pfizer jab

Australian ER doctor David Caldicott has never had an adverse reaction to a vaccine. But he needed a day on the couch after getting the second Pfizer jab.

www.abc.net.au

And as to blood clots when I work in Tasmania I would average 1 person admitted with a clotting problem for each day I was on take.They are common.

 

[jb747]

I suspect that if you look for clots, that's all you'll see.....

 

[TheRealTMA]

I suspect that if you look for clots, that's all you'll see.....

Yes. I saw quite a few at the supermarket this week during our lockdown

 

[RooFlyer]

Blood clotting. Isn’t that a stroke?

 

[Ric]

Re Blood clotting
A question for the AFF medicos: If you are on 100 mg of aspirin daily, will this counter the probability of getting the blood clots?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So on the news tonight the President of the Australasian GP Association (or something similar) stated they vaccinated 6 million people in 6 weeks last year for the flu season. So I guess on that basis they should be able to have a significant impact on the covid vaccine roll out... once they can get supply.

 

[RooFlyer]

So I guess on that basis they should be able to have a significant impact on the covid vaccine roll out... once they can get supply.

Rightly or wrongly the circumstances for giving a Covid vaccination are a whole more onerous and dare I say bureaucratic than a flu injection. One example: floor coverings have to be a certain standard, to “accept” a dropped vial. Plus mandatory data recordings before and after.

Flu vaccination rates will be no measure of Covid vaccination rates or capabilities.

The GP Union is not without their own agendas ....

 

[drron]

There are many different causes of clots.A low dose of aspirin will reduce the chance of arterial clots which can cause heart attacks and strokes.There are also reports that those on low dose aspirin who get Covid have less chance of getting clots.
However Aspirin is not good enough when it comes to venous clots such as DVT nor for clots within the heart due to atrial fibrillation.

However there are more causes of clots and the one reported from Melbourne with the vaccine is in fact associated with a low platelet account which by itself is a cause of bleeding.
Often the cause of a low platelet count is an immune disorder such as SLE.However it is also described with viral infections.Chickenpox is one and covid another.Thought to be due to the antibodies against the viral antigen cross reacting with platelet antigens.So a vaccine seeing it it's job is to stimulate antibodies against viral antigens obviously may cause this.But then it could happen with any vaccine.
The real qestion is that seeing this man was 55 his age did not qualify him for 1b so is he an HCW or does he have some other condition which itself could be the cause of this problem.Likely we will never know.

 

[ethernet]

Meanwhile in Portland USA a vaccination takes less than a minute. They have trained(unpaid) volunteers who were trained to give IM's. At the convention centre they have backup nurses and doctors. Paperwork minimal, they give you a piece of paper. Pure efficiency.

Elsewhere: Germany restricts AZ use for blood clots – The Manila Times. Possibly similar to Heparin HIT. Treatment: same as HIT. Interestingly contraception may be related. And Germany BANS AstraZeneca's vaccine for under-60s.
Easy decision for Men though.

 

[Pushka]

The real qestion is that seeing this man was 55 his age did not qualify him for 1b so is he an HCW or does he have some other condition which itself could be the cause of this problem.Likely we will never know.

If it was his health that put him into 1b then that is possibly pretty critical to his reaction.

 

[jakeseven7]

So on the news tonight the President of the Australasian GP Association (or something similar) stated they vaccinated 6 million people in 6 weeks last year for the flu season. So I guess on that basis they should be able to have a significant impact on the covid vaccine roll out... once they can get supply.

There isn’t any question we have the manpower to do it it’s about the supply I just don’t understand why people don’t understand this.

 

[Pushka]

There isn’t any question we have the manpower to do it it’s about the supply I just don’t understand why people don’t understand this.

We have 2.4 million doses now, CSL producing every week and 750,000 vaccinations done?

 

[jase05]

There isn’t any question we have the manpower to do it it’s about the supply I just don’t understand why people don’t understand this.

Exactly.
I don’t have much faith in the two incompetent supply chain companies though unfortunately