General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[oz_mark]

Mmm hmmm. Touché.

Anyway it appears several members from ATAGI were unable to meet at such short notice - clearly they must be dealing with the other global pandemic or something, destroying another vaccine rollout somewhere else?

Well, you would hope that ATAGI could make its decisions free from ministerial interference and from lobbyists!

 

[drron]

One thing about the ATAGI advice re AZ seems to have been forgotten.Circulated by TAS Health late last week.
Importantly the expert advice is that if you have already had your first dose of AstraZeneca you should continue to have your second dose of AstraZeneca

 

[RAM]

Well, I'd ask to see where that is stated in writing in your policy. It won't be.

Post automatically merged: Jun 28, 2021

I simply stated that I have read similar comments from anti vaxxers who claim that insurance policies etc etc will become invalid if the person is vaccinated. I don't know what WtGOR means and a Google didn't assist.

WtGOR = With the greatest of respect

As to exclusions with insurance policies typically there are two catch all provisions:

• Unless specifically listed/included then an event is uncovered.
• Not following all legislated +/or regulatory guidance voids all coverage

Or words to this effect. Drafting rule of thumb - place them 5 or more pages from the end and in separate sections. In some more 'interesting' contracts this is only referred to in the definitions section.

Why is it that often IMHO the best or most useful information given in a University subject often came in the 1st lecture?

1st law lecture one of the gems was always examine a contract, (which terms & conditons are a type of) starting at the end & working backwards. Equally applicable to Annual Reports.

 

[Pushka]

WtGOR = With the greatest of respect

As to exclusions with insurance policies typically there are two catch all provisions:

• Unless specifically listed/included then an event is uncovered.
• Not following all legislated +/or regulatory guidance voids all coverage

Or words to this effect. Drafting rule of thumb - place them 5 or more pages from the end and in separate sections. In some more 'interesting' contracts this is only referred to in the definitions section.

Why is it that often IMHO the best or most useful information given in a University subject often came in the 1st lecture?

1st law lecture one of the gems was always examine a contract, (which terms & conditons are a type of) starting at the end & working backwards. Equally applicable to Annual Reports.

So in reality with regards to the first dot, a pandemic and subsequent illness is likely to be excluded anyway. Refusing a vaccine then developing Covid may well invalidate a claim anyway.

 

[Lynda2475]

One thing about the ATAGI advice re AZ seems to have been forgotten.Circulated by TAS Health late last week.
Importantly the expert advice is that if you have already had your first dose of AstraZeneca you should continue to have your second dose of AstraZeneca

Not forgotten nor disputed.

 

[Lynda2475]

So in reality with regards to the first dot, a pandemic and subsequent illness is likely to be excluded anyway. Refusing a vaccine then developing Covid may well invalidate a claim anyway.

No, death or illness from a pandemic is not excluded. Illness or death from self induced actions (i.e. suicide, failure to use protective equipment, drug use or risk taking) are excluded.

Contracting covid whilst waiting to be eligible for the recommended vaccine or whilst waiting for your booking date will not invalidate a claim. However going against recommendations and getting vaccinations with AZ may depending on your policy.

 

[JessicaTam]

This is absolutely incorrect.
The majority of the cases are not treated in ICU. There has been 64 cases of confirmed and probable TTS so far in Australia from over 4.2 million doses of the AZ vaccine given.
1 in 4 of those cases require ICU, 2 deaths.
The majority of the cases have been discharged from hospital.
We need to be absolutely clear about our public information both on this forum and elsewhere.

TGA Covid Vaccine Safety Report.

Thanks @Princess Fiona, you beat me to it.

 

[Pushka]

Well hopefully they will find local examples of fully vaccinated with AZ dodging infection having been at a Bondi cluster exposure site.

I was in the first day of 1b and I've only just had the second vax two weeks ago, slightly early. It will take some weeks before immunisation effectiveness in Australia can be assessed properly and the way SA et al locks others out then getting that data is going to be difficult. While people agonise over the current cases here, in reality Australia will never have the data needed unless we have a major major outbreak.

It annoys me greatly when Politicians ignore overseas data and state they only want Australian data. It's nonsense.

 

[Lynda2475]

It annoys me greatly when Politicians ignore overseas data

Its not about ignoring overseas data, but Australian examples will resonate more with Australians. People like to their own situation reflected in examples they can relate to.

Using the fully vaccinated people from the Bondi Cluster Birthday party is a local example which should be exploited.

 

[Pushka]

Its not about ignoring overseas data, but Australian examples will resonate more with Australians. People like to their own situation reflected in examples they can relate to.

Using the fully vaccinated people from the Bondi Cluster Birthday party is a local example which should be exploited.

Vaccination success should of course be exploited but stating it was Pfizer when in reality AZ second doses have only just started and we are not within the 3 week post protection rate will be very unproductive because people will only see PFIZER SUCCESS and won't be bothered with the detail of the reality, and we know the media will not put it into any kind of context. We do not need to know which vaccine they had. We haven't even given AZ the chance to prove its protective effect.

 

[Lynda2475]

Gladys and Dr Chant has their 2nd dose of AZ more than 3 weeks ago on 2nd July (first dose 10th March).

Anyway i think they should be honest that it was Pfizer, and then publicise that AZ needs second dose to achieve the same result to make sure people get that second dose.

Just because there isn't a good news story to tell re AZ yet isn't a good enough justification to delay a good news story re Pfizer. Bulk of the population will get getting Pfizer, lets generate enthusiasm with real local success story.

 

[Pushka]

Gladys and Dr Chant has their 2nd dose of AZ more than 3 weeks ago on 2nd July (first dose 10th March).

Anyway i think they should be honest that it was Pfizer, and then publicise that AZ needs second dose to achieve the same result to make sure people get that second dose.

Just because there isn't a good news story to tell re AZ yet isn't a good enough justification to delay a good news story re Pfizer. Bulk of the population will get getting Pfizer, lets generate enthusiasm with real local success story.

And people were having their second Pfizer back in early April. We will have to agree to disagree here. The media will beat it up and even more people will wait it out to get Pfizer who should be getting vaccinated now with AZ.

 

[Must...Fly!]

You are the one who wants under 50s to disregard health advice and get AZ.

No one is telling anyone to do anything, but simply offer the option.

 

[Lynda2475]

No one is telling anyone to do anything, but simply offer the option.

The option is already there now for anyone over 40.

For those under 40 well they have to wait til vaccinations open to their cohort then they can choose the slower higher risk vaccination path if they want to.

There are absolutely some of this thread that want ATAGI to lower the age for AZ and prevent those currently eligible for Pfizer from accessing it, forcing them onto AZ which conflicts with health advice here and in Western Europe (where covid cases are much higher).

 

[Pushka]

There are absolutely some of this thread that want ATAGI to lower the age for AZ and prevent those currently eligible for Pfizer from accessing it, forcing them onto AZ which conflicts with health advice here and in Western Europe (where covid cases are much higher).

I don't. Doing that risks even more confusion and there is enough of that out there already.

However I would be fine opening up AZ to anyone of any age if they choose to have it. That isn't an option in most states I believe although country areas of SA can have their vaccination regardless of age. And country in SA means just 50 or so k's out of the CBD. 18- 60's in the country can get Pfizer right now.

 

[RAM]

Its not about ignoring overseas data, but Australian examples will resonate more with Australians. People like to their own situation reflected in examples they can relate to.

Using the fully vaccinated people from the Bondi Cluster Birthday party is a local example which should be exploited.

Potentially, but I'd follow the 'don't count chickens before they've hatched'.

So far the vaccinated have not tested positive but I'd wait 14 days from the last positive test in their households before claiming it.

Imagine the adverse publicity created (by Hazzard raising it today) if any of the vaccinated test positive in the next couple of weeks. That would only serve to add some fuel to community vaccination hesitancy.

With CV (or any major emergency/incident or investing for that matter) - I consider the worst case outcomes, look to monitor/cover the risks and enjoy when they don't eventuate vs being caught short (or losing your investment).

 

[Lynda2475]

So far the vaccinated have not tested positive but I'd wait 14 days from the last positive test in their households before claiming it.

I didn't specify a timeframe. However those people have to iso for 14 days from the party (the exposure event) and are being tested regularly.

 

[RAM]

I didn't specify a timeframe. However those people have to iso for 14 days from the party (the exposure event) and are being tested regularly.

Agreed.

However once they test positive (from previously testing negative as all but one initially did) as the latest ones have 7 days after the party - then their household contacts clock starts again from the date the positive case tests negative.

 

[jakeseven7]

The option is already there now for anyone over 40.

For those under 40 well they have to wait til vaccinations open to their cohort then they can choose the slower higher risk vaccination path if they want to.

There are absolutely some of this thread that want ATAGI to lower the age for AZ and prevent those currently eligible for Pfizer from accessing it, forcing them onto AZ which conflicts with health advice here and in Western Europe (where covid cases are much higher).

Ok....Take a breath... no one is suggesting forcing any vaccine into anyone, every poster I’ve seen including myself is just saying that people should be allowed to judge for themselves their ‘risk’ appetite and open AZ up to be able to used for younger cohorts if they want it. We do after all have the capacity to produce 1 million a week.

The risk is microscopic and many would happily take it up. I don’t see why you are so worked up about this discussion, unless you have shares in Pfizer (Jokes!)

 

[Lynda2475]

then their household contacts clock starts again from the date the positive case tests negative.

Does this happen elsewhere now? This reset hasn't been reported in past NSW clusters.

You are of course also assuming these workers live with other people and didn't choose to iso in HQ.

I understand your thinking, but given the hit rate from the party, you'd really expect to go positive before day 14.