GST'ing online purchases discussion

[NM]

Shopping on-line requires a different type of due diligence than shopping at a retail store. There are some things I am happy to purchase on-line and some things I would never purchase on-line. And when purchasing on-line I choose my merchant vary carefully and assess the risk each time.

There are some products that are commonly sold as fakes on-line and if the price looks too good to be true then it probably is. I own a Sennheiser e845 microphone and was considering buying some more. The one I have was purchased locally through a close friend who works at an authorised reseller and I know I got for a good price at the time. Now a few years later and the rise in the A$ rate has not been reflected in the local retail pricing so I was considering buying a few more from overseas. The asking price in the USA is about 50% of the local street price. But there a few on-line places selling them for about 20% of the local street price. It does not take too much research with google to find that that model microphone is commonly counterfeited from China. So there is no way I will by them from anyone other than an authorised reseller as the risk is high.

Buy buying a Shure Beta 56A or Beta 52A from an authorised reseller is very low risk. I don't need to see the item first as I know exactly what they look like and how they perform.

Another example was a recent purchase of 12 Mipro MU55HN microphones. I already have 16 of them and know exactly what they are and how they work. They sell locally for just over $200 each. I found someone in the USA selling 12 that had been used once by a theatre company who then decided to use a different style of microphone and returned them to the dealer. So they were selling for US$75 each. For that price I was very happy to take the risk that "used once" may mean "used a few times" and it was not going to be long before they were used a lot more than once after they were into my kit. I was already about to replace the wire frames on at least 4 of my originals and that was going to cost around $90 each and was needing to replace some other Shure units that were worn out anyway. So that was a bargain I could not pass up and resulted in a huge saving over any deal I could swing locally.

 

[ozimax]

I buy from both sources. As for my pro camera gear, it is locally sourced from a premier Canon dealer. As for most other stuff, it's Amazon all the way. Free shipping, then a few dollars from a relative/friend's place to Oz. Can't beat it.

Received this week a Panasonic camera (Ts2 model). Paid $270 AUD from Amazon. Retail here? $500. I will use it for the summer months, then ebay it and make from $50-$100 clear profit. Ever tried to take something back to Hardly Normal for service? Don't even try.

The world is changing. Online shopping is the way to go for many things.

 

[JohnK]

I think it is rather sad to hang onto a 6 yr old experience for justification. Also many people would have delved into keyboard layouts before buying a laptop.

I am not the type of person that perseveres with a lost cause. I have been on eBay many times and I simply do not want to do business there.

Perhaps I will use eBay again one day but not if the seller accepts Paypal only.

Sorry John but I think your examples show how some people have moved as buyers the same as retailers need to move. If you still feel the urge to buy face to face be prepared to pay for the experience. The few dollars more you are talking is often a big %

And some people don't feel it is necessary to buy many things online.

Shopping on-line requires a different type of due diligence than shopping at a retail store. There are some things I am happy to purchase on-line and some things I would never purchase on-line. And when purchasing on-line I choose my merchant vary carefully and assess the risk each time.

Exactly my thoughts.

I have done a risk assessment and I do order/purchase some things online but I am not a big shopper anyway.

I purchase airfares, DVD's for my brother's collection, travel insurance etc. Very basic things.

Would I buy food without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy clothes without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a fridge without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a washing machine without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a television without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a computer without first seeing it. Yes! Don't ask why!

Would I buy from overseas? Possibly but I want to minimise the risks.

The next question is what do I need to buy online? At this stage not much at all....

 

[anat0l]

Ever tried to take something back to Hardly Normal for service? Don't even try.

I used to work in Harvey Norman's service department. You got a s**t local HN if they can't take care of a warranty issue for you. In saying that, the silly season always back logs all of the external repairers. It doesn't help that some of them take "extended breaks" after Christmas.

Then you've got all those people who come in after the Christmas gifts are exchanged. Some of them are DOAs; fine, we'll deal with it. But most of them want to return items they simply do not want. Some of them try to do this without receipts (especially DVDs or games where the seal is already broken - du'h you already cloned it, didn't you), and some even try to pass off items clearly not bought from HN as if they were, and they have the boldface indignity to demand a refund!

If you're going to use something for three weeks or three months then decide to return it for a refund or exchange just because you want to, you have got to be kidding.

 

[Postcode]

I have only bought twice from the complaining Gerry's stores. I bought my first computer, knowing no better at the time. An absolute lemon. (HP) The seller was less than helpful until I got Consumer Affairs on the job, not that they can do much anyway.

Soon after they had a misprint on a newspaper ad. A digital camera which was to be discounted by $200 was advertised at being discounted by $400. A digital camera back then was around $1000 for something decent. I presented the ad, was told to wait, ignored, so I followed the guy around loudly asking him in front of customers to honour the ad his part of HN advertised in the paper. After 30 minutes he did.

I hope their customer service has improved in the 14 years since. But it must be the GST that is stuffing things up for them so have a whinge, and look for elsewhere to blame instead of listening to customers. You lose a customer you lose not just one but many more from word of mouth.

 

[Rebekkap]

Would I buy food without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy clothes without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a fridge without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a washing machine without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a television without first seeing it? No!
Would I buy a computer without first seeing it. Yes! Don't ask why!

Would I buy from overseas? Possibly but I want to minimise the risks.

The next question is what do I need to buy online? At this stage not much at all....

I buy food from Woolies online all the time - without seeing it. How different can an online carrot look from a store-bought carrot? I don't have time to go to the supermarket, and I'm generally away from home during the week staying in an apartment with a kitchen - ordering online and having it delivered to the apartment saves me time and stops me being tempted to order takeaway.

Clothes I can understand if you want to try them on, although I have ordered clothes online completely successfully - most recently a Travel Clothing & Innovative Wrinkle-Free Travel Clothes (Jackets, Vest & more Clothing for Travel) - SCOTTEVEST/SeV®, Scott Jordan Founder & CEO, Pocket Clothing for Travel Accessories and Travel Gear coat, which is awesome.

I'd totally buy a fridge or a washing machine without seeing it first - you can read the energy/water ratings on line and customer reviews, and see pics.

A computer I would definitely NOT buy online - I am really fussy about my laptop keyboard and would want to try typing on it first (although I suppose if I had tried it already I might buy online if there was a better price).

I'd say I do 90% of my shopping online, much of it from overseas, and have only once had a problem returning something that didn't work - not a bad hit rate when you consider you get problems with bricks and mortar stores as well. I can't see that characterising ebay as a "lost cause" when you had one problem with one seller, six years ago, is really a fair assessment of the whole online shopping experience!

 

[anat0l]

I buy food from Woolies online all the time - without seeing it. How different can an online carrot look from a store-bought carrot? I don't have time to go to the supermarket, and I'm generally away from home during the week staying in an apartment with a kitchen - ordering online and having it delivered to the apartment saves me time and stops me being tempted to order takeaway.

I don't know about you but some people can be very fussy about the fruit and veg. They want to pick carefully from the whole stand rather than risk getting a bad one in the bag, or even a less than optimal one. In some cases, you go to the store (assumed the same stock as they have "online") and the whole stand of a particular fruit or veg is not looking good full stop, so one wouldn't buy that item. You can't tell this online, which shows a generic (good looking) picture of what you're getting.

If you're not so fussy and don't make a big deal of choosing this item or that one, or this brand or that one, or are used to buying mostly prepackaged vegetables and fruit, then maybe online is the way to go.

 

[Rebekkap]

I don't know about you but some people can be very fussy about the fruit and veg. They want to pick carefully from the whole stand rather than risk getting a bad one in the bag, or even a less than optimal one. In some cases, you go to the store (assumed the same stock as they have "online") and the whole stand of a particular fruit or veg is not looking good full stop, so one wouldn't buy that item. You can't tell this online, which shows a generic (good looking) picture of what you're getting.

Oh, I'm pretty fussy, and at home certainly look closely at everything - but I also tend to buy what's in season, which helps. You're right, you can't tell online, but if you don't try to buy, say, brussel sprouts in the middle of summer or peaches in winter, you have a much better chance of not getting a dud.

I've only had a problem with the quality of the produce once in several months with Woolies, and when I called them they answered the phone promptly and offered either to courier me a replacement item or credit the money for the product back to my account.

Anyway, like I said, when working 15 hour days away from home - I'll take the occasional dud carrot and avoid eating daily take-away, it's a good trade-off.

 

[serfty]

I am not the type of person that perseveres with a lost cause. I have been on eBay many times and I simply do not want to do business there.

Perhaps I will use eBay again one day but not if the seller accepts Paypal only.

...

I have used eBay once and quite successfully.

The Magnetron needed replacing. Sourcing in Australia the part was available from $119.

I scanned eBay and was able to ship the brand new part from England for a total outlay of £37.

 

[JohnK]

I buy food from Woolies online all the time - without seeing it. How different can an online carrot look from a store-bought carrot? I don't have time to go to the supermarket, and I'm generally away from home during the week staying in an apartment with a kitchen - ordering online and having it delivered to the apartment saves me time and stops me being tempted to order takeaway.

That is perfectly fine if that is how you want to live. I want to be able to see what I am buying. Meat, vegetables all have to look the way I want them.

I live on my own as well although I do not work anywhere near 15 hours a day but I make the time to go and purchase groceries. I do not eat take away on my own, ever. No temptation at all.

I'd say I do 90% of my shopping online, much of it from overseas, and have only once had a problem returning something that didn't work - not a bad hit rate when you consider you get problems with bricks and mortar stores as well. I can't see that characterising ebay as a "lost cause" when you had one problem with one seller, six years ago, is really a fair assessment of the whole online shopping experience!

I think you totally underestimate human beings and their ability to make informed decisions. What you or anyone else say about online shopping experiences is not going to change my mind.

I have used eBay once and quite successfully.

I actually used eBay twice. Once to buy a lemon and the second time trying to help my brother out I foolishly (naively) clicked on the buy button (he really wanted the DVD's) and then realised that the only payment method accepted was Paypal. I refused to pay and got reported. Sorted the matter with eBay.

I do not like the concept of eBay. It is that simple.

 

[Rebekkap]

I live on my own as well although I do not work anywhere near 15 hours a day but I make the time to go and purchase groceries. I do not eat take away on my own, ever. No temptation at all.

I don't actually live on my own, but anyway. My guess is you're not tempted to eat takeaway on your own because you're not working stupid hours away from home - I never was when working iat home in Melbourne either.

I think you totally underestimate human beings and their ability to make informed decisions. What you or anyone else say about online shopping experiences is not going to change my mind.

Wasn't suggesting you should change your mind, I don't really care how you shop - just sharing my experience - and my opinion that having one bad experience isn't really much to base anything on. If everyone on this board stopped flying after one bad experience with an airline, none of us would be here!

Speaking of, 10.15am CBR > MEL delayed "due to late arrival of aircraft". Grr. Today of all days I would really like to get home!

 

[anat0l]

I do not like the concept of eBay. It is that simple.

The concept of eBay is essentially selling goods online. So you're completely opposed to e-commerce?


I don't like how eBay put so much dependency on PayPal.

Recovery procedures between buyers and sellers are also not very straightforward. I wonder how it works with the old style of selling, e.g. classifieds, The Trading Post (when it was not online)...e.g. what would you do if you bought something from the classifieds, wired the money and then received a dud? I wonder how many people would consider suing the classifieds publisher for not ensuring that "good" entries were enlisted there (similar to how people believe the largest onus of proof that an item is good on eBay should lie with eBay, not the seller nor the buyer).

At least with face-to-face commerce you have a fixed location that you can bring back goods if you have problems with them. All you have to worry about is if they go bankrupt and close up shop. But that's equally a risk online, too.

In saying that, I have bought both new and 2nd hand goods on eBay before. Electronics, adapters, collector's playing cards. Haven't had any trouble and left positive feedback all the time. I did have one item go faulty after about 6 months; I contacted the seller and was offered a new one for a token cost including shipping.

 

[NM]

I wonder how it works with the old style of selling, e.g. classifieds, The Trading Post (when it was not online)...e.g. what would you do if you bought something from the classifieds, wired the money and then received a dud? I wonder how many people would consider suing the classifieds publisher for not ensuring that "good" entries were enlisted there (similar to how people believe the largest onus of proof that an item is good on eBay should lie with eBay, not the seller nor the buyer).

I see the "classifieds" and on-line versions like the Trading Post, Weekend Shopper etc as advertising mechanisms and not as on-line shopping options. I would not be sending money for a product advertised in the Trading Post without seeing it first.

Most of what I purchase from eBay is brand new products. I have bought a few second hand items, but I consider the risk higher and take that into consideration when making such a purchasing decision. I look vary carefully for any negative feedback attributed to sellers. I consider the risks of buying second hand items in a similar manner to buying second hand from the Trading Post, Weekend Shopper, a garage sale or even Cash Converters - there are some good good bargains to be found and there is a lot of junk being offered. Discerning the difference is often not worth the time and effort, but sometimes can be very much worthwhile.

 

[JohnK]

The concept of eBay is essentially selling goods online. So you're completely opposed to e-commerce?

I think the 2 are slightly different.

As I mentioned I do purchase some things online from reputable businesses. I cannot say the same for the people trading on eBay.

It is OK for people to purchase online if that is what they want to do. It is a bit hopeless saying the world has moved on so should everyone else. Just because the majority do it does not make it right.

So when they have skin grafts and/or chips inserted in the body for mobile phones, internet access, banking people will just jump on? No thanks.

I don't like how eBay put so much dependency on PayPal.

Paypal is another I am definitely against. Another useless 'middle man' taking a slice of the cake. Why should I need Paypal to pay by credit card? That is 2 'middle men'!

 

[straitman]

I think the 2 are slightly different.

As I mentioned I do purchase some things online from reputable businesses. I cannot say the same for the people trading on eBay.

John,

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but I can only partially agree with you on this.

eBay traders work on a rating system and many people who do business there have a perfect or near perfect rating.

By your definition I am not a reputable trader even though I have a perfect trading record over a nine year period.

Having said all that I do agree that there are quite a few people without such good ratings. I simply will not do business with those who do not have good ratings.




Sent from my iPhone using AFF Mobile

 

[Alanslegal]

I first registered on eBay in March 2001, so that means I'm like you and have been on that site for over 9 years. My rating as of today is 100, and it says I have a Positive Feedback of 100% so I would like to think, and others to think, I would be pretty trustworthy to be dealing with.

The rating system, although pretty simple, works well and I will only deal with those with multiple transactions and positive feedback. I might transact with someone who is new and have limited ratings but only for transactions which involve small amounts of $$$.

eBay is great, love it, and one of the handful of sites I regularly use / visit.

 

[Mal]

The rating system, although pretty simple, works well and I will only deal with those with multiple transactions and positive feedback. I might transact with someone who is new and have limited ratings but only for transactions which involve small amounts of $$$.

Yep, I've bought about 40 items off Ebay since I joined, and have had few issues. I can recall three that had issues:
- Seller #1 backed out of an auction I won because the price was "too cheap" (he didn't say that - just weaselled out).
- Seller #2 didn't ship item. Emailed them etc, and they advised that they had been in hospital. Item eventually turned up.
- Seller #3 (apparently) sent item to wrong address somehow and then they stuffed up resending it, eventually got item but it took about 3 weeks from Sydney.

Basically Ebay is one way I get items from the US and UK that I can't get shipped here. But you always have to be cautious. Stay away from branded clothing, USB drives, batteries, computer memory&parts, software, phones, shaver blades etc. Lots of fakes flooding Ebay. Get a feel for your seller - how long have they been operating, what do they normally sell, what good feedback have they got etc etc.

As for Paypal, I don't particularly like them, but find it an efficient way to pay certain people. Especially if I'm not paying the fee they are charged to withdraw the cash!

 

[kpc]

Stay away from branded clothing, USB drives, batteries, computer memory&parts, software, phones, shaver blades etc. Lots of fakes flooding Ebay....As for Paypal, I don't particularly like them, but find it an efficient way to pay certain people. Especially if I'm not paying the fee they are charged to withdraw the cash!

I bought a fake SD card off ebay...I didn't realise it til the card failed after my 2nd day in Argentina:evil:. When I tried to claim it under the lifetime warranty, the manufacturer informed me that it was a fake! Tried emailling the seller who did not respond surprisingly. Filed a dispute with PayPal but as it was beyond 45 days, they weren't interested. As I had paid PayPal via my credit card, I then filed a disputed transaction and got my money back from the credit card provider (after a lot of correspondence, I might add!), whom I assume got it out of PayPal....so moral of story, never link your Pay Pal account with your bank account, ALWAYS with your credit card. Having said that I have had about 15 or so other transactions on ebay with no problems whatsoever!

 

[medhead]

I suppose what I mean is our sub scale car manufacturing. A lot of the guys in the car factories have skills that could generate a far higher national return in other industries, especially the mining and construction sectors.

Personally, I don't see Australia as being little more than the world's quarry. If we get everyone working in a mine somewhere, what are we going to do when all the resources are gone and sold to someone else, who has turned them into something more valuable while also developing skills in their country that Australia no long has. The lack of vision in this regard is absolutely terrifying to me.

 

[JohnK]

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but I can only partially agree with you on this.

Partial is good. I don't post expecting people to agree with me.

eBay traders work on a rating system and many people who do business there have a perfect or near perfect rating.

By your definition I am not a reputable trader even though I have a perfect trading record over a nine year period.

I did not mean all people trading on eBay.

Personally I feel the eBay rating system is rubbish. Here is why. I do some research for electric golf buggies and see some that I want on eBay. Many on sale and win one auction, pay the money, it is delievered on time and the seller gets positive feedback from me.

The actual product is rubbish. There are visible defects with it. Get in touch with seller who puts me in contact with distributor. They will not replace the electric golf buggy but I take it back 5-6 times to get it repaired in the next 2 years when the warranty runs but still have issues.

Seller has positive feedback from me and he sells rubbish.

Csn't be any simpler. Perhaps I should give eBay a second chance so I can purchase more rubbish....