GST'ing online purchases discussion

[anat0l]

Personally I feel the eBay rating system is rubbish. Here is why. I do some research for electric golf buggies and see some that I want on eBay. Many on sale and win one auction, pay the money, it is delievered on time and the seller gets positive feedback from me.

It is a rating system that is better than nothing. There must be a better way, though you have to remember that more factors come into play here than simply making a more comprehensive system. Look at TripAdvisor: many people leave feedback, but it's certainly not every patron that goes to that property, even if they are aware of and/or used TripAdvisor. Not entirely fair, especially to those who naively "rely" on TripAdvisor when making accommodation choices. (Let's not pull in the media on this one)

In saying that, it's always "grain of salt" all the time. When I look at an eBay seller, feedback of 100% but only 1 rating doesn't tell you a lot. On the other hand, a feedback of 100% with over 5000 ratings is something. If it's not 100% then I usually look at where the negatives were and any follow-up of the seller on those negatives, if applicable. Sometimes if it's a recent negative trend it might be a good idea to move away from that seller.

You left positive feedback before you tried the product? You have to try it before you give the thumbs up for the seller otherwise you end up just what you did - getting a product which is rubbish but the seller is portrayed as everything is A-OK.

In any case, if the seller has their business details and the distributor won't fix your product with clear inherent defects under warranty, then you have actions you can take under TPA. Of course, no one wants to get to that point......


I think a lot of this thread really emphasises the risk of online trading vs. possible cost and convenience that some people are prepared to accept the risk and others are not. There is no use in denying that the risk does exist. Hence, notwithstanding possible misunderstandings of each system, the division of opinion is apparent.

 

[guybaxy]

I don't know how they could tax the online shoppers, except through the payment area, such as paypal visa, mastercard. You would have to legislate local merchants to add the GST. How could you legislate a foreign merchant to add the GST and collect for the Australian Government.

 

[Ric]

I don't know how they could tax the online shoppers, except through the payment area, such as paypal visa, mastercard. You would have to legislate local merchants to add the GST. How could you legislate a foreign merchant to add the GST and collect for the Australian Government.

I think it can be done on the local forwarder who will have to collect the tax, e.g. Fedex.

But I hope that they will not do something silly. As others have pointed out, it's really not the GST that's the problem but the HUGE price difference between local prices and overseas prices plus the limited choices available here. I have been doing online shopping since 1997 because of the above reasons.

 

[guybaxy]

the real issue is the retail recession vs mining boom. The banks putting up interest rates 1/2 pc just before Christmas was a mistake, we are having a double edged economy. The minining economy and the other economy. Thats why the rertailers are focused on the online shoppers. Obvoulsy its ridiculous for Australians to all buy individually and have small packages delivered its inefficient and definitely not green vs a container load of goddies shipped. However, until the greedy local importers/wholesalers and retailers pass on the costs savings due to the high dolar people will still shop online where possible . the costs of things in Australia are crazy. A 600ml bttle of coke costs $4.00 at the Sydney Fish markets the other day, even in an expensive place like New Caledonia (8 months ago) I recall I paid no more than $2.00 for the equivalent at a gas station!!! The mark ups are huge. For a bottle of sugar and water.


AUYSTR

I think it can be done on the local forwarder who will have to collect the tax, e.g. Fedex.

But I hope that they will not do something silly. As others have pointed out, it's really not the GST that's the problem but the HUGE price difference between local prices and overseas prices plus the limited choices available here. I have been doing online shopping since 1997 because of the above reasons.

 

[oz_mark]

But I hope that they will not do something silly. As others have pointed out, it's really not the GST that's the problem but the HUGE price difference between local prices and overseas prices plus the limited choices available here. I have been doing online shopping since 1997 because of the above reasons.

While GST is the obvious tax, there are a whole load of indirect taxes embedded in prices in Australia (e.g. payroll tax on reasonably high pay rates). Shopping Centres introduce a whole raft of charges, and most local government charges are passwd through to the retailers through the rents they pay. SHopping centre owners themselves have a fair degree of pricing power over them.

High prices in Australia result from a whole raft of structural issues, in addition to the obvious GST issue.

 

[drron]

And I believe that the import duty on clothing has been reduced to 10% this year-protecting our almost non-existent clothing manufacturing.

 

[oz_mark]

And I believe that the import duty on clothing has been reduced to 10% this year-protecting our almost non-existent clothing manufacturing.

I dare say that reduction in duty hasn't been passed on to consumers....

 

[Mal]

The campaigning continues:

Online tax push gains momentum | Retail | GST | Myer | David Jones

The campaign, backed by Myer, David Jones, Harvey Norman, Target, House, Borders, Angus & Robertson and a number of others, began today with the placement of full-page advertisements in some of the nation's newspapers.

"At the rate at which internet retailing is growing with mobile internet technology, the fact that offshore retailers aren't required to levy duty or GST on purchases under $1000 creates an enormous competitive advantage for foreign businesses selling into Australia.

They still don't get it. GST Is a small portion of a purchase price - and in many overseas purchase cases, it is actually off-set by the increased shipping costs. So why do people still choose to buy overseas, and why do stores overseas still have a competitive advantage (in the eyes of the buyer????).

 

[Mal]

A 600ml bttle of coke costs $4.00 at the Sydney Fish markets the other day, even in an expensive place like New Caledonia (8 months ago) I recall I paid no more than $2.00 for the equivalent at a gas station!!! The mark ups are huge. For a bottle of sugar and water.

Yep, Coke is a good example of how we are being ripped off. I don't know of any other country where 500ml/600ml bottles of coke are sold for > $3. Some examples from memory:

NZ - About $2 NZ.
UK - About 1 pound, 1 pound, 20p.
SIN - Between 1.50 and 2.50 S.
Thailand - about 30Baht.

Perhaps I should start up an operation parallel importing Coke 600ml bottles and reselling to merchants.

Another interesting discrepancy in prices is with medical supplies, again Australia tends to pay too much.

I think very interesting results would come from doing a "price index" of the following items around the globe:
- 500ml/600ml bottle of coke.
- Pack of Gillette Shaver blades.
- 100g Colgate toothpaste.
- Regular toothbrush.

Certainly I notice extreme differences in the prices for these around the globe...

 

[serfty]

The campaigning continues:

...

They still don't get it. GST Is a small portion of a purchase price - and in many overseas purchase cases, it is actually off-set by the increased shipping costs. So why do people still choose to buy overseas, and why do stores overseas still have a competitive advantage (in the eyes of the buyer????).

I reckon they do "get it".

But to advertise that would bring to the fore the "closed shop" pricing we here in Oz have been subjected to over the years - which is not what they want to do.

 

[markis10]

I reckon they do "get it".

But to advertise that would bring to the fore the "closed shop" pricing we here in Oz have been subjected to over the years - which is not what they want to do.

I agree, but a shot at increasing your competitors pricing by 10% is a worthwhile one.

 

[ric_melb]

Some interesting new posts. I personally think the retailers are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Business Spectator today estimates that overseas online purchases account for only 1% of the Australian retail spend.
And the retailers keep harping on the GST aspect, whereas, as various posters have said, its the availability of product, and a much lower price, plus service aspects that influence buyers to shop online and overseas.

Given the mention of toothbrushes; I took the pricing up with Colgate some years ago.
The very same toothbrush, made in Thailand, cost 50 cents in Thailand, and $3.00 in Australia. They did at least reply. Their explanation was along the lines that different markets have different overheads and structures, and they aimed to price competitively in all markets!

 

[Rebekkap]

Obvoulsy its ridiculous for Australians to all buy individually and have small packages delivered its inefficient and definitely not green vs a container load of goddies shipped.

Actually, that's not so obvious at all.

Online shopping, depending on the modelused, can be distinctly 'greener' than driving your car to the shops to buy something that's been shipped in a container.

March 3: Carnegie Mellon Study Finds Shopping Online Results in Less Environmental Impact - Carnegie Mellon University

It's often the case that the person driving to the shops to buy something is the biggest part of the carbon footprint - when you look at the carbon footprint for food transportation in this country, people driving to the supermarket is one of the largest parts of that.

People's online purchases may arrive in small packages, but they're also delivered on masse by Aust Post (or a courier, for that matter), who are delivering many many small packages, not one at a time by driving to an individual's house in a single trip.

 

[medhead]

Yep, Coke is a good example of how we are being ripped off. I don't know of any other country where 500ml/600ml bottles of coke are sold for > $3. Some examples from memory:

NZ - About $2 NZ.
UK - About 1 pound, 1 pound, 20p.
SIN - Between 1.50 and 2.50 S.
Thailand - about 30Baht.

Another price point:
Europe, 3 to 5 euro for a 200ml coke

 

[Mal]

Another price point:
Europe, 3 to 5 euro for a 200ml coke

Was that at a kiosk/retail store? The size of the bottle and price makes me think of a bar, or restaurant.

 

[Mal]

And Choice has weighed in ... Are they reading our posts and summarising them?

Consumer advocacy group Choice described the retailers' campaign as an "alarmist red herring" driven by self interest.

"The big chains should recognise that it's their high prices, limited range and poor customer service that increasingly encourages people to use the internet," spokesman Christopher Zinn said in a statement.

"Consumers are simply chasing the best deal and the best service and often these days that is found online."

Choice used the example of a digital camera (Canon IXUS 1000 HS) available online from Myer for $557. The same camera could be purchased though an Australian online retailer for $433.50.

Purchasing the camera from Hong Kong through a company with Australia-based sales staff would cost $346.

Retailers declare war on online shopping | Courier Mail

And from the same article - the one paragraph which sums things up:

"Major stores are not being forced by anyone to charge these high prices," Mr Zinn said. "This debate is about quality of service, competitive pricing and the inability of some retailers to understand the future of internet shopping."

 

[pauly7]

Yep, Coke is a good example of how we are being ripped off. I don't know of any other country where 500ml/600ml bottles of coke are sold for > $3. Some examples from memory:

NZ - About $2 NZ.
UK - About 1 pound, 1 pound, 20p.
SIN - Between 1.50 and 2.50 S.
Thailand - about 30Baht.

Perhaps I should start up an operation parallel importing Coke 600ml bottles and reselling to merchants.

To be fair it's not the retailers that make Coke relatively exxy here - it is the bottler Amatil. They are the most profitable Coke bottler in the world.

Reason: because the competitor here (Pepsi/Schweppes) has had about 5 different ownership structures in the last 20 years and is only now gaining traction with Asahi backing them. Coke also had a 70 year headstart here.

Coke prices are actually starting to come down on average as Pepsi takes more market share from them.

 

[medhead]

Was that at a kiosk/retail store? The size of the bottle and price makes me think of a bar, or restaurant.

A range of locations, from corner shop to bar/restaurant/cafe. all places that I would consider to be equivalent to the sydney fish markets. I can only recall seeing 500/600ml cokes in europe about twice. I would guess that the price was about 2 euro which was about $3.50 on the exchange rate at the time.

 

[Postcode]

A range of locations, from corner shop to bar/restaurant/cafe. all places that I would consider to be equivalent to the sydney fish markets. I can only recall seeing 500/600ml cokes in europe about twice. I would guess that the price was about 2 euro which was about $3.50 on the exchange rate at the time.

As a confirmed coke addict, mostly of the zero variety I recently was paying 2,00€ for a 500mL bottle at a vending machine, and around 1.20€ at a supermarket in France. A 330mL can for around 1€. Considerably less expensive than here. Today 1€ is about AUD $1.30.

Would Mr Harvey and his greedy whinging cronies remember that the tax on goodies in France is 19.6%.

 

[Alanslegal]

Stupid comments like those from Mr Harvey et al is enough for me to "try" and never purchase from those mentioned stores. I'll try my damn hardest to have no discretionary spending at those stores, as I can always shop overseas or online anyway.