GST'ing online purchases discussion

[Alanslegal]

Why doesnt't Gerry Harvey try to assist the Federal Government police the non payment of GST by smal retailers? He could strart by going to Market City in Chinatown and find out if anyone selling goods < $1000 are accountig the GST. What about small restaurants who charge you GST and never actually pay any in their BAS due to 'cash sales'. It would be masssive. When the GST came in 1 July 2000 those small retailers just had a 10% increase in their revenue. Their costs (rent and processed food would have increased a bit) but given their personal income tax cuts they would have been better off.

Blame little Johnny H for that; it was big myth that the GST was going to get rid of the 'black' cash economy.

 

[medhead]

Blame little Johnny H for that; it was big myth that the GST was going to get rid of the 'black' cash economy.

Yep and anyone who had seen more than 2 episodes of minder would have realised that was the case.yet John H had no idea. Maybe it was a non core promise.

 

[Mal]

... from the purchaser? :shock:

If Australia decided to implement GST on purchases etc, they wouldn't start it at $0. Instead, there would be an allowance of say $50 or $100, and possibly a higher figure for gifts.

The posts would shift, and people would shift with it. Suddenly a whole rash of packages will turn up with $49 declared or similar.

And if they charged me say $10 to create the billing paperwork, + $10 for GST (for a $100 purchase), I doubt they would recover their own costs of enforcing it.

The retailers have backed themselves into a corner, they have made a massive tactical blunder and it will be funny to see how they walk out of that corner with their pride intact.

The Australian had some good articles today about the situation - I do feel for some retailers (eg the shoe shop lady who has customers walking in all day checking fit for certain high end brands, and then leaving without buying) - but unfortunately if they can't convince their wholesalers to do the right thing then they won't survive. No different to Video rental places, home milk deliveries and even the ice cream vans who travel up and down the street. All of them have had to adapt to a changing market.

 

[anat0l]

...if they can't convince their wholesalers to do the right thing then they won't survive. No different to Video rental places, home milk deliveries and even the ice cream vans who travel up and down the street. All of them have had to adapt to a changing market.

Except the problem is that none of the examples you quoted have 'adapted' - all of them have regressed or disappeared.

• Video rental places have gone down (i.e. much less branches), and are continuing to be a loss leader. The only possible good thing that comes out of them is video game rentals. Personally I don't see why they still are around, unless they exist to accelerate the ever growing cloning and P2P juggernaut.
• Home milk deliveries have gone the way of the dodo long ago. You don't even fill up your own glass bottle any more - just keep buying a new plastic one from the shop (or online, if you wish) and throw it in the bin (preferably the recycling one). No grace shown for all those delivery drivers for sure.
• Ice cream vans are much, much more sporadic than before. In fact, I can't remember the last time I actually heard Greensleeves play to signal the appearance of an ice cream van. The only thing they appear for are some fairs / festivals / fetes. The only exception is Home Icecream, which started and ever will be only selling via the van, but I have doubts as to how successful they are now, as I hardly hear them around too.

Basically if business adaptation is supposed to protect current economic viability or improve it, then that's three failures cited there.

In summary, I think it'll be a case of 'if you can't beat them, join them'.

 

[melbourne rebel]

Except the problem is that none of the examples you quoted have 'adapted' - all of them have regressed or disappeared.

• Home milk deliveries have gone the way of the dodo long ago. You don't even fill up your own glass bottle any more - just keep buying a new plastic one from the shop (or online, if you wish) and throw it in the bin (preferably the recycling one). No grace shown for all those delivery drivers for sure.

You may want to look again, because as their slogan goes, The Milkmans Back:

http://www.aussiefarmers.com.au/global/assets/press/2010/BRW_Fast_100.pdf
Aussie Farmers Direct healthy eating franchises rank second in BRW Fast Starters 2010

 

[Mal]

Except the problem is that none of the examples you quoted have 'adapted' - all of them have regressed or disappeared.

• Video rental places have gone down (i.e. much less branches), and are continuing to be a loss leader. The only possible good thing that comes out of them is video game rentals. Personally I don't see why they still are around, unless they exist to accelerate the ever growing cloning and P2P juggernaut.
• Home milk deliveries have gone the way of the dodo long ago. You don't even fill up your own glass bottle any more - just keep buying a new plastic one from the shop (or online, if you wish) and throw it in the bin (preferably the recycling one). No grace shown for all those delivery drivers for sure.
• Ice cream vans are much, much more sporadic than before. In fact, I can't remember the last time I actually heard Greensleeves play to signal the appearance of an ice cream van. The only thing they appear for are some fairs / festivals / fetes. The only exception is Home Icecream, which started and ever will be only selling via the van, but I have doubts as to how successful they are now, as I hardly hear them around too.

Basically if business adaptation is supposed to protect current economic viability or improve it, then that's three failures cited there.

Nope. As already commented, there is a huge uptake on a new spin to "milk deliveries". There are also some milko's still around.
* There was a big article in the paper recently about video stores and how one adapted to the changing industry while everyone else around them closed. There are also places like Netflix which are a new spin on the old industry.
* Ice Cream vans have adapted. They no longer head up and down the street, but instead stalk out parks and fairs.

 

[anat0l]

You may want to look again, because as their slogan goes, The Milkmans Back:

http://www.aussiefarmers.com.au/global/assets/press/2010/BRW_Fast_100.pdf
Aussie Farmers Direct healthy eating franchises rank second in BRW Fast Starters 2010

Nope. As already commented, there is a huge uptake on a new spin to "milk deliveries". There are also some milko's still around.
* There was a big article in the paper recently about video stores and how one adapted to the changing industry while everyone else around them closed. There are also places like Netflix which are a new spin on the old industry.
* Ice Cream vans have adapted. They no longer head up and down the street, but instead stalk out parks and fairs.

Well that shuts me up

It still begs to ask whether the profitability of the new age vendors you speak of is still as good as before. Unless thinner profits is all part of the new fandango way of doing business these days. Adaptation processes certainly carry a cost, but if the result is purely survival only then that might be a problem...

 

[odysseus]

I wouln't call that adapting, I'd call it the last relics holding out as best they can. When an industry dies, they don't just immediately disappear, but a few struggle on as best they can. e.g. Ice cream vans were always in carnivals decades ago; it's just now that and related events are about the only place they'll be found. And that's not a growth area so while guys with the investment will ride it out as best they can towards retirement. Put it another way: how many [/new/] ice cream vans have you seen in these areas? It's not going to attract newcomers to the game and they'll just fade away...

 

[Postcode]

I didn't say it wasn't cheaper in a supermarket but the coke price was mentioned in relation to the Sydney Fish Market, which I would guess would be a food court type vendor not supermarket.

Sorry but I didn't realise that the Sydney Fish Market was such an important place and a benchmark on prices worldwide. My mistake. I don't live in Sydney and am allergic to seafood so a good excuse to avoid both places. The world revolves around Sydney and its fish market and we all should know better.

If you care to look at my post to which you chose to give a partial response, based on I don't really know what, check it out again. I was giving information on how the protesting Australian retailers have little to whinge about in regard to taxes imposed on purchases.

I doubt I would eat and drink in a food court in France, as well.. there are other places offering good value.

As a confirmed coke addict, mostly of the zero variety I recently was paying 2,00€ for a 500mL bottle at a vending machine, and around 1.20€ at a supermarket in France. A 330mL can for around 1€. Considerably less expensive than here. Today 1€ is about AUD $1.30.

Would Mr Harvey and his greedy whinging cronies remember that the tax on goodies in France is 19.6%.

I was just trying to give some personal experience and advice to others including yourself. Sorry if my experience and advice is below you.

 

[medhead]

Sorry but I didn't realise that the Sydney Fish Market was such an important place and a benchmark on prices worldwide. My mistake. I don't live in Sydney and am allergic to seafood so a good excuse to avoid both places. The world revolves around Sydney and its fish market and we all should know better.

Didn't say it was an important place. Simply pointing out that the price of coke in the sydney fish market is not going to be comparable to the price in a supermarket - anywhere in the world. You replied my post on that topic about the price at a range of shop types, which I stated were equivalent to the sydney fish market, with information about prices in french supermarkets (not exactly equivalent in pricing terms). Simply trying to mention that most of the world including Australia has variable pricing for such things as coke depending on the type of shop where it is purchased. :shock: Who would have thought.

If you care to look at my post to which you chose to give a partial response, based on I don't really know what, check it out again. I was giving information on how the protesting Australian retailers have little to whinge about in regard to taxes imposed on purchases.

I guess I only replied to part of your post because that is all I wanted to comment about. I didn't have anything useful or construction to add to your point about the protesting Australian retailers. Should I have wasted time by saying something? :-| However, I did want to mention that I didn't think supermarket pricing was comparable to corner store pricing, which is what the coke price discussion was about.

I doubt I would eat and drink in a food court in France, as well.. there are other places offering good value.

Well that's nice to know (a comment on your entire post even if I'm not sure why your making the comment). I didn't say I ate in french food courts either, if you read back I said Cafes/koisks/bars/restaurants. Of course, I was also referring to Europe not just France, but for france we could add in bistros as well, for me.

I was just trying to give some personal experience and advice to others including yourself. Sorry if my experience and advice is below you.

That's useful, Thank you. I guess I was just comparing prices of coke in places that are equivalent (IMO) to the Sydney fish market, sort of along the lines of the side discussion that was taking place. I thought you were joining into that discussion, not giving advice on were to buy cheap coke in France. So no, I wasn't dismissing your advice or experience. :-| I just didn't see it as sharing advice or experience in the context of the thread. Personally, as you don't eat in food courts, I don't shop in supermarkets in europe - the idea that you were offering an alternative didn't even enter my mind. :shock:

 

[Postcode]

The fact that remains that has been ignored so far from presumedly a number of people, the tax on goodies in France is 19.6%. I have posted this already.

European Union Value Added Tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry if it was too much to understand.

French business isn't whinging. Only Australians business people.

 

[medhead]

The fact that remains that has been ignored so far from presumedly a number of people, the tax on goodies in France is 19.6%. I have posted this already.

European Union Value Added Tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry if it was too much to understand.

French business isn't whinging. Only Australians business people.

And the VAT in UK is much higher than 10%. No one is ignoring this at all, people read it and have taken that in. A large number of points have been made in the thread about the faults with the retailers campaign, including that on-line prices are much lower than just the 10% difference.

As for not understanding, that came out of left field. Exactly what do you need from people to make you think they understand your point?

I understand your point, I have nothing to say about it. I haven't ignored your point, it is not related to what I was talking about.

To repeat - I understand you point, I have nothing to say about it.

 

[Archphoto]

The law that keeps the price of books high in Australia is the one that gives local publishers first dibs on publishing books here. Retailers can only import books from overseas if no Australian publisher makes it available within 60 days of its overseas release. This gives Australian publishers no competition and allows them to set whatever price they want (almost)............

So how is it that we still pay so much for imported books?

No wonder Amazon et al are making a killing - New/Used: you save already on the published price, plus often you can get it cheaper again, if you buy from a supplier through Amazon (or pick it up used).

Case in point: friend picked up a book from Borders for $45.00; Amazon new: around $27 + post or new from another retailer: $14.00+post or used $9.00 plus post (currently $12.50).

If retailers started looking slightly further afield, they'll probably retain a happy customer base who are getting tired of being ripped off.

 

[Mal]

Aaah Gerry Harvey really has no clue. I used to consider him a shrewd businessman, but now he is getting more like a babbling clown by the day. Can one of his horses lend him a muzzle?

He is now saying that it's "un-Australian" to buy things overseas. Ahuh. Nice one. He goes from one gaff to another - it's almost like he waltzes between them.

 

[docjames]

He is now saying that it's "un-Australian" to buy things overseas. Ahuh. Nice one. He goes from one gaff to another - it's almost like he waltzes between them.

But it's ok for him to import stuff from overseas and sell it at inflated prices.

 

[Archphoto]

Aaah Gerry Harvey really has no clue. I used to consider him a shrewd businessman, but now he is getting more like a babbling clown by the day. Can one of his horses lend him a muzzle?

He is now saying that it's "un-Australian" to buy things overseas. Ahuh. Nice one. He goes from one gaff to another - it's almost like he waltzes between them.

Hmmm, and where are all those tvs, videos, cameras, cd players made and where does he import them from?

 

[medhead]

So how is it that we still pay so much for imported books?

No wonder Amazon et al are making a killing - New/Used: you save already on the published price, plus often you can get it cheaper again, if you buy from a supplier through Amazon (or pick it up used).

Case in point: friend picked up a book from Borders for $45.00; Amazon new: around $27 + post or new from another retailer: $14.00+post or used $9.00 plus post (currently $12.50).

If retailers started looking slightly further afield, they'll probably retain a happy customer base who are getting tired of being ripped off.

Book imports are protected - no parallel imports allowed.

Although, I tried amazon recently because of this thread and it did work out cheaper. 3 book box set $50 odd at borders, amazon $17 +$29 for shipping , with equivalent delivery times. Shipping would have been a lot less if I wanted to wait weeks.

 

[serfty]

Book imports are protected - no parallel imports allowed.

Although, I tried amazon recently because of this thread and it did work out cheaper. 3 book box set $50 odd at borders, amazon $17 +$29 for shipping , with equivalent delivery times. Shipping would have been a lot less if I wanted to wait weeks.

Try Booko: Compare book & DVD prices in Australia with Booko - it was posted here and I have not looked back!

 

[Archphoto]

Try Booko: Compare book & DVD prices in Australia with Booko - it was posted here and I have not looked back!

Ouch! My friend got a great deal as it stands ($45 compared to Booko's listed price of $75), but still $11.00 more than the cheapest listed. (And this list doesn't include any of the used or new specials from any of the dealers.)

Still shows we are paying an awful lot for books in AU - I've bought a load of books via Amazon market (new & used) and picked up several books I could only dream of owning.

I used to use Dymocks to get many older books (and new ones also), but after being quoted an unbelievable price of $80.00 for a paperback I really wanted, I've rarely bought from an AU bookseller since.

 

[djfuzz]

Book imports are protected - no parallel imports allowed.

Although, I tried amazon recently because of this thread and it did work out cheaper. 3 book box set $50 odd at borders, amazon $17 +$29 for shipping , with equivalent delivery times. Shipping would have been a lot less if I wanted to wait weeks.

Have just discovered bookdepository.co.uk, and won't be looking back.