Heads up about program changes

[medhead]

Prior to the last Lesley Lunch, I asked for either a simplified (and vetted for accuracy) transcript of the Q&A to be posted by Red Roo sometime after the event and/or an audio file of the Q&A be posted here, so all AFFers could share in the info given out, not just the lucky few, selected by Qantas itself.

This was ignored by Red Roo and criticized by some of the Lunchers - IIRC one described it as an 'exclusive' event. A précis of the Qs and As was posted - by Sam004 I think? - but by his own admission it was necessarily quiet brief and hurried.

Hence my very great cynicism about these lunches - not so much about communication but opinion influencing, I believe.

Exclusive event? They let me in!

I don't think it has influenced my opinion.

 

[moa999]

I wondered about Europe-to-Europe, say an BA flight LHR-ATH. I am struggling with the QF terms as opposed to the straight mileage, as according to mileage monkey ATH-LHR is 1,509M, and might attract 80SC, or could be "downgraded" to under 1500 in the new fairer simpler world for 60SC, or classified Short International for 40SC. What do you reckon?

While not totally clear, my presumption (like medhead) is it earns 80 SCs under the 1501-2500 mileage category for other flights

 

[Archphoto]

Prior to the last Lesley Lunch, I asked for either a simplified (and vetted for accuracy) transcript of the Q&A to be posted by Red Roo sometime after the event and/or an audio file of the Q&A be posted here, so all AFFers could share in the info given out, not just the lucky few, selected by Qantas itself.

This was ignored by Red Roo and criticized by some of the Lunchers - IIRC one described it as an 'exclusive' event. A précis of the Qs and As was posted - by Sam004 I think? - but by his own admission it was necessarily quiet brief and hurried.

Hence my very great cynicism about these lunches - not so much about communication but opinion influencing, I believe.

A great pity it wasn't forthcoming, as not everyone is able to attend such events. Exclusive?? I think that's rather far fetched and delusional; I thought it was an event to explain the "Simpler & Fairer" changes and allow for people who fly regularly to offer their opinions and ask questions they felt were relevant to explaining the (sorry mess) new system.

The changes affect all flyers, not just those who were able to attend said lunch. I for one, would have liked to have been able to attend, unfortunately work and distance meant I could not - having a copy of the questions and answers given would be extremely informative. A great pity Red Roo and Co. (along with a few DYKWIA "exclusive" lunchers mentioned above), feel that only the attendees were important enough to be included in the discussions. Guess that shows how QF really feels about their customers - if you can't make our "Exclusive Events", we don't want to know you.

 

[medhead]

A great pity it wasn't forthcoming, as not everyone is able to attend such events. Exclusive?? I think that's rather far fetched and delusional; I thought it was an event to explain the "Simpler & Fairer" changes and allow for people who fly regularly to offer their opinions and ask questions they felt were relevant to explaining the (sorry mess) new system.

The changes affect all flyers, not just those who were able to attend said lunch. I for one, would have liked to have been able to attend, unfortunately work and distance meant I could not - having a copy of the questions and answers given would be extremely informative. A great pity Red Roo and Co. (along with a few DYKWIA "exclusive" lunchers mentioned above), feel that only the attendees were important enough to be included in the discussions. Guess that shows how QF really feels about their customers - if you can't make our "Exclusive Events", we don't want to know you.

Seriously, I've tried to share as much as I remember of the event. I think everyone was pretty open in sharing. I think the main points have been mentioned. As I'm sure most appreciate there was a fair amount of spin on the day. I accept the position put by Qantas about things like how it is simpler. Even if I think that position does not consider all aspects of the situation.

But at the end of the day, people who didn't have the chance to attend haven't missed much. The most valuable part was the social aspects and we can all socialise at any time.

As for how Qantas feel about me. I think the changes alone send the message. Qantas do not want to maintain their relationship with me. I don't need to not get lunch to hear that message.

 

[Archphoto]

Seriously, I've tried to share as much as I remember of the event. I think everyone was pretty open in sharing. I think the main points have been mentioned. As I'm sure most appreciate there was a fair amount of spin on the day. I accept the position out by Qantas about things like how it is simpler. Even if I think that position does not consider all aspects of the situation.

But at the end of the day, people who didn't have the chance to attend haven't missed much. The most valuable part was the social aspects and we can all socialise at any time.

As for how Qantas feel about me. I think the changes alone send the message. Qantas do not want to maintain their relationship with me. I don't need to not get lunch to hear that message.

Medhead, I appreciate your input on the meeting (along with other AFF members recollections), I was more alluding to this comment: "This was ignored by Red Roo and criticized by some of the Lunchers - IIRC one described it as an 'exclusive' event."

It's great that we, as a group, had the chance to meet the "big-wigs" and put forward our concerns etc, it's just a great pity that QF couldn't come to the party afterwards, and share with those AFF members who couldn't attend, what was discussed exactly along with the Q&A session.

A clear, concise verbatim report is certainly much easier to than trawling through 261 pages, trying to discern what was discussed; sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.:mrgreen:

 

[medhead]

Medhead, I appreciate your input on the meeting (along with other AFF members recollections), I was more alluding to this comment: "This was ignored by Red Roo and criticized by some of the Lunchers - IIRC one described it as an 'exclusive' event."

It's great that we, as a group, had the chance to meet the "big-wigs" and put forward our concerns etc, it's just a great pity that QF couldn't come to the party afterwards, and share with those AFF members who couldn't attend, what was discussed exactly along with the Q&A session.

A clear, concise verbatim report is certainly much easier to than trawling through 261 pages, trying to discern what was discussed; sorting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.:mrgreen:

Yes very true about a concise report. On reflection my previous post might have been a bit hard on the thought behind the lunch. I do really appreciate the effort put into making arrangements and the time of all the Qantas staff involved.

Otherwise, I still think the suggestion it was exclusive is adequately addressed by letting me attend.

 

[JohnK]

Hence my very great cynicism about these lunches - not so much about communication but opinion influencing, I believe.

Not sure I understand this point. Are you implying that Qantas tried to buy our loyalty? Acceptance of the changes?

I don't think that is the case. Yes there was some clever spin on the day but I think most questions were answered honestly by Qantas. I am sure they are under pressure and have to work to certain constraints which doesn't make things easy.

And the summary of questions/answers you have seen posted on AFF is fairly accurate.

Now if the CEO had an open question/answer session that would be a different story.

 

[TSVflyer]

While not totally clear, my presumption (like medhead) is it earns 80 SCs under the 1501-2500 mileage category for other flights

I'm doing a spot of BA Club Europe flying in October/November. HEL-LHR, LGW-JER, LHR-ARN and LHR-SOF. I phoned Plat premium line re. SC. After lengthy deliberations with various supervisors (in the background) I was told that HEL-LHR was 60 SC, LGW-JER was 20 SC, LHR-ARN was 40 SC and LHR-SOF was 60 SC. The helpline staff were very good, they apologised that they were not quite sure but hoped they had got the SC right. This conversation was held about 10 days ago.
If you check BA's very good Tier point calculator each sector was 20 Tier points higher than what I was "quoted" by QF.
I will let you know the result of my SC run when I get back in mid November.

 

[RooFlyer]

Quote Originally Posted by RooFlyer View Post

Hence my very great cynicism about these lunches - not so much about communication but opinion influencing, I believe.

Not sure I understand this point. Are you implying that Qantas tried to buy our loyalty? Acceptance of the changes?

I don't think that is the case. Yes there was some clever spin on the day but I think most questions were answered honestly by Qantas. I am sure they are under pressure and have to work to certain constraints which doesn't make things easy.

And the summary of questions/answers you have seen posted on AFF is fairly accurate.

Now if the CEO had an open question/answer session that would be a different story.

Not saying QF tried to buy loyalty or get attendees to accept the changes. But I am certainly thinking that the event was aimed at influencing the opinions of AFFers about Qantas and having those opinions then expressed here on AFF. Whether or not they succeeded is another matter .

There was discussion re possible QF 'motives' in hosting these lunches at the time of the last one. drron and I (and I think others) made the point that corporate 'hospitality' doesn't exist just because they like talking to their customers, and want to give them a nice time. Corporate hospitality is about influencing perceptions and opinions in the short, medium and long term - there is a lot of research on this and corporates don't spend a lot of money on hospitality and/or 'sponsorship' of conferences etc if there is no prospect of an ultimate commercial return. Someone would have to be a stony old coot to experience a nice Rockpool lunch and not go away with a somewhat more benign feeling towards whoever paid for it.

I'm not saying those who go to such lunches are dupes, or insincere in their post-lunch opinions. But if Qantas wanted to explain the new 'simpler, fairer' (TM) program to AFFers, they could have hosted a webinar, just had Q&As posted here or just employed some-one competent to post the changes and new tables on their wretched web site :evil: . But they hosted a fancy lunch, with nice food & drink, airfares and prezzies, and the information that was exchanged was posted here by good members who kindly did so, not Qantas. Best of luck to those who went; as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm looking forward to another nice lunch being held to explain the current round of 'simpler, fairer' (TM) enhancements (TM), such as the unilateral cancellation of CD in many ports/services and cancellation of F to HKG etc.. I again wouldn't enter, but I'd make sure I was at a nearby table on the day just to watch the fun.

Edit: Disclosure: I once spend a day at the Adelaide Grand Prix as a guest of Ansett Golden Wing. No Ansett people I attendance ... just got a pass along with a few others IIRC. No way my opinion was influenced ... I woke up next day still half deaf and with a huge hangover

 

[Flashback]

So excuse my inability to secure some understanding from the latest QF earning tables, an Emirates Y flight from Perth to London Heathrow earns how many points and status? vs the same point to points with Malaysian or PER LHR via Hong Kong (Cathay) . Heaven forbid as a customer i'd like to fly QF metal but i cant even see where Perth sits on the tables?? With a move to being UK based and constant return flights to Perth I'm looking to maximise my position with the best carrier...help!!

P.S. My plan is not to fly Y regularly but this is a base guide

If you're moving to the UK, I'd strongly suggest looking at BA's program. It really makes no sense sticking with QF. Myself and Mal have both made the switch (Mal was QF WP). I'd then avoid the QF/EK option and use BA/CX/MH options to Perth if wanting to fly Oneworld.

Computer says no. BA calculator has it at 80TP.

LHR-HEL is definitely 80TP each way in J (crediting to BAEC). What QF gives it though, may be completely different.

Thanks moa999, it is quite a lot easier to read.

I wondered about Europe-to-Europe, say an BA flight LHR-ATH. I am struggling with the QF terms as opposed to the straight mileage, as according to mileage monkey ATH-LHR is 1,509M, and might attract 80SC, or could be "downgraded" to under 1500 in the new fairer simpler world for 60SC, or classified Short International for 40SC. What do you reckon?

BAEC definitely offers 80 TP each way in J for LHR-ATH. Again ... what QF offers would just be based on whatever the mileage band is.

I'm doing a spot of BA Club Europe flying in October/November. HEL-LHR, LGW-JER, LHR-ARN and LHR-SOF. I phoned Plat premium line re. SC. After lengthy deliberations with various supervisors (in the background) I was told that HEL-LHR was 60 SC, LGW-JER was 20 SC, LHR-ARN was 40 SC and LHR-SOF was 60 SC. The helpline staff were very good, they apologised that they were not quite sure but hoped they had got the SC right. This conversation was held about 10 days ago.
If you check BA's very good Tier point calculator each sector was 20 Tier points higher than what I was "quoted" by QF.
I will let you know the result of my SC run when I get back in mid November.

BAEC's distance bands and QF's are not the same. Based on BAEC however, HEL-LHR is 80 in J, LGW-JER is 40 in J.

 

[OATEK]

While not totally clear, my presumption (like medhead) is it earns 80 SCs under the 1501-2500 mileage category for other flights

Thanks, hope you are both right.

 

[woodborer]

My simple question has always been this... when deciding attendance at loyalty lunches, why the need for 'three questions you would like to know about [Qantas cash/simpler and fairer/etc]'? Surely the communications about each product should be prepared in advance in such a way that we, as consumers, don't need to ask three questions? Shouldn't the information already be there?

Well, how should they have chosen the attendees? Problematic doing it randomly, as that would like a lottery and require all manner of registrations in various states. So, you make it a game of skill. Now, you could have gone, the 'In 25 words or less, explain why you should go to the lunch'. But, I would suggest that the request for three questions would be just as appropriate (if not more).

 

[woodborer]

A great pity it wasn't forthcoming, as not everyone is able to attend such events. Exclusive?? I think that's rather far fetched and delusional;

Exclusive in that it was offered exclusively to AFF members. That would be about it on the 'exclusive' front.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well, how should they have chosen the attendees? Problematic doing it randomly, as that would like a lottery and require all manner of registrations in various states. So, you make it a game of skill. Now, you could have gone, the 'In 25 words or less, explain why you should go to the lunch'. But, I would suggest that the request for three questions would be just as appropriate (if not more).

Fair enough. But why not publish the questions and answers?

I had no intention of entering, but even if I did, there was nothing to ask! I assumed all the relevant information would be in the available advertising for the product.

How could I have possibly even have asked the following: 'can you confirm qantas cash cards may be useless if you change status as a result of your outbound flight from Australia?'

Such a suggestion is ridiculous. Even if it seems it might have been true.

 

[dajop]

LHR-HEL is definitely 80TP each way in J (crediting to BAEC). What QF gives it though, may be completely different.

Yes absolutely true. But routing being discussed originally was HEL-CDG, which is only 40TP each way, according to BA calculator. Of course discussion is irrelevant to QF status credit earn which has its own complexities, oops I mean simplicities, other than re-inforcing that oneworld sapphire status (and to a lesser extent emerald) when flying most oneworld airlines will be easier to achieve in BA's program than the simpler and fairer QF program (assuming of course one can access an address outside of AU/NZ to join up BA's program).

 

[Archphoto]

Exclusive in that it was offered exclusively to AFF members. That would be about it on the 'exclusive' front.

Certainly in that respect the term is relevant, however, in regard to the comment made up-thread:

"Prior to the last Lesley Lunch, I asked for either a simplified (and vetted for accuracy) transcript of the Q&A to be posted by Red Roo sometime after the event and/or an audio file of the Q&A be posted here, so all AFFers could share in the info given out, not just the lucky few, selected by Qantas itself.This was ignored by Red Roo and criticized by some of the Lunchers - IIRC one described it as an 'exclusive' event." (My bolding.)

it reads more akin to it being "Exclusive" to attendees and those that were unable to attend weren't to be privy to the discussion at the luncheon as suggested. Whatever, if that's how some saw it, so be it, but I stand by my initial comment:

"Exclusive?? I think that's rather far fetched and delusional; I thought it was an event to explain the "Simpler & Fairer" changes and allow for people who fly regularly to offer their opinions and ask questions they felt were relevant to explaining the (sorry mess) new system. The changes affect all flyers, not just those who were able to attend said lunch."

Suggesting that the information discussed could be available to all AFF members, was a good idea, obviously others felt differently. :mrgreen:

 

[Flashback]

Yes absolutely true. But routing being discussed originally was HEL-CDG, which is only 40TP each way, according to BA calculator. Of course discussion is irrelevant to QF status credit earn which has its own complexities, oops I mean simplicities, other than re-inforcing that oneworld sapphire status (and to a lesser extent emerald) when flying most oneworld airlines will be easier to achieve in BA's program than the simpler and fairer QF program (assuming of course one can access an address outside of AU/NZ to join up BA's program).

.. and of course take the requisite number of BA flights for each status level

 

[Pablo]

I've searched this thread but can't find the answer to this. Can anyone confirm if I'm reading the earn rate right on a J* flight with a plus bundle - will I earn points and SC at the "flexible economy" rate as the booking class is "B" rather than the discount economy rate as it currently is - thereby meaning there is a better earn rate for a plus bundle? Or am I reading that totally wrong? If so, it means there is a doubling of SC on Jetstar plus bundles.

 

[aamslfc]

Can anyone confirm if I'm reading the earn rate right on a J* flight with a plus bundle - will I earn points and SC at the "flexible economy" rate

Confirmed. Just did a dummy booking on a JQ sector (Starter w/ Plus bundle), and found this buried in the T&Cs:

For travel up to 30 June 2014 Qantas Points and Status credits are earned at the Qantas Discount Economy Rate.
For travel on and from 01 July 2014 Qantas Points and Status credits are earned at the Qantas Economy Rate.

It was mentioned earlier in another thread, but I wasn't sure whether to believe it. But the proof is there; you'll get double the points and double the status flying JQ compared to QF, all at a lower price :shock:

For the Max Bundles:

For travel up to 30 June 2014 Qantas Points and Status credits are earned at the Qantas Economy Rate.
For travel on and from 01 July 2014 Qantas Points and Status credits are earned at the Qantas Flexible Economy Rate.

 

[Ansett]

Confirmed. Just did a dummy booking on a JQ sector (Starter w/ Plus bundle), and found this buried in the T&Cs:



It was mentioned earlier in another thread, but I wasn't sure whether to believe it. But the proof is there; you'll get double the points and double the status flying JQ compared to QF, all at a lower price :shock:

For the Max Bundles:

What an absolute Joke so lets discourage people from Flying QF and shove them on JQ. We make more money on JQ.

Seems the Deathstar nick name is well deserved.