Heads up about program changes

[medhead]

The problem with qantas is that the customer experience is usually good, despite the occasional glitch. Yet QFF have substantially devalued their relationship with the customers. If service was the only consideration there is no reason to move. But clearly these changes say Qantas no longer want to maintain the relationship, it is perfectly reasonable for people to be upset about that situation.

Not really. As per the T&Cs agreed to by each member upon signing up there is no ongoing guarantee that the FF program will be maintained. It could be completely shut down with just 6 months notice, or immediately if QF were to cease operations.

Furthermore, there is no fixed or agreed value assigned to points. Anyone who is stockpiling them away ''for a rainy day'' could have their value ripped away from them at any time. Sure you can complain, but for mine looking at it as an ''investment'' is a really silly thing to do.

Referring to the T&Cs does not change the fact that people have invested in a relationship with Qantas. It is perfectly reasonable to be upset about such a unilateral change to the program that devalues the relationship that people have with Qantas. For all the good aspects of Qantas service I really don't think they outweigh the outright trashing of the commitment to QFF by customers. The question for me is not can they make the changes, but why should I continue to support QFF, and hence Qantas, when they are just going to dump me at will. I wonder if the cost savings from these cuts is going to be greater than the customers that they lose. Does Qantas management understand that there is an alternative, that there is competition?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Not really. As per the T&Cs agreed to by each member upon signing up there is no ongoing guarantee that the FF program will be maintained. It could be completely shut down with just 6 months notice, or immediately if QF were to cease operations.

Furthermore, there is no fixed or agreed value assigned to points. Anyone who is stockpiling them away ''for a rainy day'' could have their value ripped away from them at any time. Sure you can complain, but for mine looking at it as an ''investment'' is a really silly thing to do.

well yes, but no.

qantas makes a big deal to attract moms and dads members. credit card points, woollies points, you name it.

award flights, upgrades, amazing items.

all heavily promoted.

but do you see in big fat print anywhere the huge fees and charges? do you see anywhere in huge print the 'we can change anytime we feel like it'?

Qantas terms and conditions go on for pages... compare that to someone like US airways... a fraction of that, in nice easy to understand English.

people can't be expected to read through all the terms and conditions. And just because qantas says they can close the whole program in three months notice... does that make it right?

 

[whatmeworry]

How long before QF notice their revenues fall because of these simpler and fairer changes?

 

[Pleb Status]

How long before QF notice their revenues fall because of these simpler and fairer changes?

The fact that I cannot fly anywhere internationally ex PER has had a far greater influence on my travel dollar distribution than the FF changes. It is the cascading effect QF have to worry about also.

I cannot fly internationally on QF which means earning 2700 QF SC for P1 in the 2015-2016 year will not be possible. I therefore only have to satisfy the four QF ~ rule for WP. At the extreme, my 2700 QF SC (actually over 3000 QF SC) could then drop to 40 QF SC for WP. Once I have made the final decision to abandon P1, which has basically been made for me, my Europe trips will be on CX and my trips to Asia on other airlines.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

How long before QF notice their revenues fall because of these simpler and fairer changes?

QFi will notice a drop, but it will get blamed on "unfair competition/Government handouts to other airlines/Qantas Act" etc etc..
QFF will only see a dip in revenue if less QFF points are created. Overall changes to flight earning will mean a decrease. But as long as they bring on new partners that buy points the revenue will only go up. Banks are contracted to buy a set number of points over their contract life cycle, so like in USA - we'll know if consumers have less demand for QFF points if banks are struggling to give out the points if big CC signup bonuses are advertised.

There is a segment of customers who place importance on points/sc (this extends far outside of AFF but still represents only a small% (probably under 10%) of overall revenue to the airline. These people are directly impacted by changes and a % of these will shift spend. This is where the greatest loss to QF will be.

Just remember kids... Businesses are the customer. You are the product.

 

[JohnK]

People have invested in the program as it stands. There must be hundreds of thousands of FF members who are saving towards a particular award for example. And it might take them years to get there.

Program changes kinda rip the rug out from under them.

People have a right to complain when something like this happens.

I stand to lose quite a lot. I am not crying (not yet) but I am not exactly happy either.

What can I do though?

That Oneworld award (actually 9 of them) now requires ~AUD2,000 in taxes and surcharges. That is a joke.

That economy award to BKK is close to impossible unless I call Qantas but then the taxes and surcharges are ~AUD500 or more. A paid economy is not much more. Business class is a little better value but limited availability but 120,000 QFF return to BKK does not quite weigh up with 140,000 QFF points for Oneworld award.

And yes I can just blow all my points on an F return to LHR for a weekend and another to LAX/JFK for another weekend and kid myself that I actually got some value out of my hard earned points.

I shouldn't be in this situation. I should be sitting safe thinking how I can spend my points wisely to get most value.

 

[hossein_au]

I stand to lose quite a lot. I am not crying (not yet) but I am not exactly happy either.

What can I do though?

That Oneworld award (actually 9 of them) now requires ~AUD2,000 in taxes and surcharges. That is a joke.

That economy award to BKK is close to impossible unless I call Qantas but then the taxes and surcharges are ~AUD500 or more. A paid economy is not much more. Business class is a little better value but limited availability but 120,000 QFF return to BKK does not quite weigh up with 140,000 QFF points for Oneworld award.

And yes I can just blow all my points on an F return to LHR for a weekend and another to LAX/JFK for another weekend and kid myself that I actually got some value out of my hard earned points.

I shouldn't be in this situation. I should be sitting safe thinking how I can spend my points wisely to get most value.

Wow! I think you're coming around JohnK... welcome to the club (of course you understand this is a light-hearted shot, right? )

 

[amaroo]

I stand to lose quite a lot. I am not crying (not yet) but I am not exactly happy either.

What can I do though?

That Oneworld award (actually 9 of them) now requires ~AUD2,000 in taxes and surcharges. That is a joke.

That economy award to BKK is close to impossible unless I call Qantas but then the taxes and surcharges are ~AUD500 or more. A paid economy is not much more. Business class is a little better value but limited availability but 120,000 QFF return to BKK does not quite weigh up with 140,000 QFF points for Oneworld award.

And yes I can just blow all my points on an F return to LHR for a weekend and another to LAX/JFK for another weekend and kid myself that I actually got some value out of my hard earned points.

I shouldn't be in this situation. I should be sitting safe thinking how I can spend my points wisely to get most value.

Look on the bright side - any change from here will only increase cost and reduce value further.....earn and burn.

 

[JohnK]

Wow! I think you're coming around JohnK... welcome to the club (of course you understand this is a light-hearted shot, right? )

I have been worried for a long time.

Only difference now is that worry is starting to look like panic.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I stand to lose quite a lot. I am not crying (not yet) but I am not exactly happy either.

What can I do though?

That Oneworld award (actually 9 of them) now requires ~AUD2,000 in taxes and surcharges. That is a joke.

That economy award to BKK is close to impossible unless I call Qantas but then the taxes and surcharges are ~AUD500 or more. A paid economy is not much more. Business class is a little better value but limited availability but 120,000 QFF return to BKK does not quite weigh up with 140,000 QFF points for Oneworld award.

And yes I can just blow all my points on an F return to LHR for a weekend and another to LAX/JFK for another weekend and kid myself that I actually got some value out of my hard earned points.

I shouldn't be in this situation. I should be sitting safe thinking how I can spend my points wisely to get most value.

But with paid revenue fares from asia to Europe (ex SIN) for $760, or business class for $1500. Or business class to America for $3000... is the $2000 taxes worth it on an economy award? Appreciate you can get 5 stops, but how about a couple of paid cheap fares with QF points to fill in the gaps to the side cites?

 

[katiebell]

Yep I can't recommend the QFF program to anybody.

We should contact their point partners to inform how bad the program is now and why partnering has been devalued

I stopped looking for credit cards linked to frequent flyer programmes some time ago and look for the ones with no fees and longer periods between incurring debt and due date: much better value and no risk of loyalty rewards being devalued or lost

 

[katiebell]

Thinking about this this morning... I can see now how Qantas has made this simpler and fairer! They have aligned their program with others such as CX and SQ where certain discount economy fares earn almost nothing, or 50% of miles.

But rather than just come out and say 'discount economy earns 50%' they have gone for this complicated 'zone' chart... to perhaps give some illusion that the program is more generous than it is?

the zone chart is to confuse us even further as they have changed the zones of many destinations resulting in even bigger drops in SC. How is this "fairer or simpler". Perhaps this enhancement translates as better for QF and who cares about the QF FF members?

 

[JohnK]

But with paid revenue fares from asia to Europe (ex SIN) for $760, or business class for $1500. Or business class to America for $3000... is the $2000 taxes worth it on an economy award? Appreciate you can get 5 stops, but how about a couple of paid cheap fares with QF points to fill in the gaps to the side cites?

The ~$2000 on taxes and surcharges is definitely not worth it. You can live with ~$1000 in taxes and surcharges but anything more and it is a joke.

What else can one do with the points? I was really saving them to use on Oneworld awards. There are many places I would love to go and play golf.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What else can one do with the points? I was really saving them to use on Oneworld awards. There are many places I would love to go and play golf.

My point was kind of this: I don't know exactly where you want to go, but thinking of Europe for example... for the same $2000 in taxes you could save your points, fly business class from Singapore to Europe on a paid fare for $1500, then use your qantas points to fly from the European port to various places to play golf. Or apply the same for Africa, or Asia. QF points can be used for some medium/short airline partner fares that can be really expensive ifyou had to buy them, but don't necessarily have a high fuel surcharge.

 

[JohnK]

My point was kind of this: I don't know exactly where you want to go, but thinking of Europe for example... for the same $2000 in taxes you could save your points, fly business class from Singapore to Europe on a paid fare for $1500, then use your qantas points to fly from the European port to various places to play golf. Or apply the same for Africa, or Asia. QF points can be used for some medium/short airline partner fares that can be really expensive ifyou had to buy them, but don't necessarily have a high fuel surcharge.

I understand but I was kind of thinking something like this golf trip with about 1 week in each

Phoenix, Scotland, Thailand

Next time around

Myrtle Beach, Ireland, Thailand

Next time around

Palm Springs, Spain/Portugal, Thailand

Maybe a Canadian destination on a future trip and any number of European destinations.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I understand but I was kind of thinking something like this golf trip with about 1 week in each

Phoenix, Scotland, Thailand

Next time around

Myrtle Beach, Ireland, Thailand

Next time around

Palm Springs, Spain/Portugal, Thailand

Maybe a Canadian destination on a future trip and any number of European destinations.

Fair enough. I was just looking at RTW fares on flightcentre - they start at $2699 inclduing all taxes for three stops (they listed examples as Singapore/Helsinki/New york - but I'm guessing there's some flexibility in those to destinations closer to where you want to be). So the QF award for 140K and $2000 is pretty much looking like 140K points for a $699 discount :shock:

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Fair enough. I was just looking at RTW fares on flightcentre - they start at $2699 inclduing all taxes for three stops (they listed examples as Singapore/Helsinki/New york - but I'm guessing there's some flexibility in those to destinations closer to where you want to be). So the QF award for 140K and $2000 is pretty much looking like 140K points for a $699 discount :shock:

Pretty sure JohnK would book in a premium cabin!

The discount is even less considering a Plat would earn 40-60K points on a basic paid RTW ticket.

 

[Flashback]

Aw, didn't take the bait. Decidedly ashamed.

 

[JohnK]

Fair enough. I was just looking at RTW fares on flightcentre - they start at $2699 inclduing all taxes for three stops (they listed examples as Singapore/Helsinki/New york - but I'm guessing there's some flexibility in those to destinations closer to where you want to be). So the QF award for 140K and $2000 is pretty much looking like 140K points for a $699 discount :shock:

I don't disagree with you. Those 140,000 points could have even less value than the $699 discount you mentioned.

I am sure I could find a RTW cheaply to cover USA, UK and Thailand cheaply. Which carriers though? There are many carriers on my "I will not fly that carrier in economy" list.

The reference I was using for 5 stop Oneworld award was the Qantas RTW product which had ~$3,500-$4,000 retail value. When taxes were ~$1,000 the 140,000 points had decent value. That value is gone.

The other selling points of the Oneworld award are preferential seating on Qantas and Oneworld partners (very important to me ), priority check-in and lounge access.

 

[dajop]

When taxes were ~$1,000 the 140,000 points had decent value. That value is gone.

You can probably get the taxes down to ~$1400, but need to ensure you do not use IB,AA or BA for transatlantic travel (that leaves AY, JFK-HEL) and use CX services from AMS, MXP or FCO to leave Europe (in HKG fuel fines are regulated and not leaving from LHR avoids the APD you would incur if leaving from anywhere in the UK).