Heads up about program changes

[serfty]

Thanks Markis10 but I am after a complete SC earn table.
Like a lot of others we do Circle or RTW fares on OW so need SC earn on partner airlines.
This is where the old table was so simple.

It was there last night: Frequent Flyer - Fairer Flying

We know the Status credits, but not the points earn:

The way you earn Qantas Points on partner airline flights will transition to the same regional framework as the table above. Please ensure Your Profile is up to date so that we can keep you informed of these changes.

 

[roncritch]

Qantas want me to book higher status fares, but I go back to my earlier cough about the price of flexi fares from KTA-PER as against MEL-BNE...now in same zone. The cost for the Flexi KTA is $625 whereas for MEL its only $385. Same amount of fights per day, and with our FIFO's probably more people flying KTA route than the MEL route. Why this anomaly QANTAS?? ( and I won't even go into the RED-E deal fares which are just a money grabbing exercise.)

The change doesn't affect me that much, still get the same SC's just lose 150 points on the REd E deals, and with Acquire I will actually get more..

The member I feel most sorry for are the Adelaide people who lose on PER and SYD flights. Adelaide seems to be continually shafted more than us in the West.

Good to see that our partner flights which we have been forced to take remain the same, at least someone over East remembered we exist!!

Agree completely with others that the update calculators and other mistakes on the site reflect very poorly on the professionalism one should expect from a company making such a radical change. Methinks too many Gen Y's in Qantas loyalty and IT!!

 

[ketsuzei]

JASA booked March 27, ticketed March 28 for travel in 2015. How will it earn?

 

[Himeno]

Well, since they haven't finalised the points earning on partner airlines I thought they might also adapt their new "Discount Economy" and "Economy" structure to partner airlines.

Which would make things somewhat hard. Not all airlines use the same fare code for the same class, and when they report earnings to QFF, they don't say "Economy", they simply say "L".
Some airlines consider "L" to be "Discount Economy", others consider it to be "Economy".
Then there is JAL's "Class J" on domestic Japan routes. We'd end up getting the increased full "Business Flex" rate for that extra 1000Yen on an cheap economy fare?

 

[ian_baker58]

Wow, just wow. Talk about a massive devaluation. In what way could alienating their most frequent flyers be a good idea for Qantas's business?
Joyce really has lost the plot.

He never had it in the first place IMHO...! :evil:

 

[Himeno]

It was there last night: Frequent Flyer - Fairer Flying

We know the Status credits, but not the points earn:

It looks like they are still adjusting it. Those "Middle East" entries were not there last night.

 

[ketsuzei]

If anyone can point me in the right direction

Go *thataway*.

 

[Edge]

I would encourage everyone to go back and read post #517 because Jean Prouvaire has hit the nail on the head. Too many analysts have been crunching numbers and building models when workshopping these changes. Step back and look at the big picture:

- The fixed costs of providing status benefits are huge (lounges, etc)
- The incremental costs of providing status are minimal (actual consumption in the lounges, status earning.. many of the benefits actually cost them NOTHING to provide (seat selection, priority boarding, upgrade preferences, etc)
- People with status have a better flying experience so are likely to fly more often.

For the many customers, these changes have made status harder to achieve. So customers will either chase harder (a win for Qantas), give up the chase (a loss to Qantas) or chase elsewhere (massive loss to Qantas). I don't think many are going to chase harder.

From January 2014 my company's travel policy has switched from BFOD (which I generally manipulated to fly Qantas) to putting everything through VA whenever possible. So far I've flown 12 sectors on VA, with another 6 coming in the next fortnight. I achieved gold (thanks to some family pooling from J trip to Bali last year) and my experience has been excellent so far. I was only Silver + QP with Qantas, but to be honest Gold was probably just out of reach. VA Gold is far easier to achieve & retain and the benefits are way better... if you fly a lot domestically on saver fares, VA is the way to go IMO.

 

[KPerth]

As an infrequent Frequent Flyer could someone please explain what "MASA" stands for and how does it work?

 

[Doono]

"It's all about creating a fairer, more simplified program......." When ever I see this I read between the lines as "please bend over"

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

But that $200 is fixed. You can't reduce the size of plane based on tickets that are sold for each flight. So by not earning that $100, they are actually reducing their profitability even more. The same applies to lounges, facilities etc. Even if there is only one WP on a flight, you still need to maintain the lounge for them. Which is the point i was trying to make, Revenue goes down, operational costs remain about the same = reduced profitability.

The strategy of reducing revenue to increase profits only works if you can reduce your costs too, for airlines thats a tough game, because they can't just reduce their stock levels so easily. The plane still has to be flown, the lounges still have to be offered, the overheads still have to exist.

Bingo.

The current changes are a cost cutting measure. Except there's minimal real cost cutting involved, because the majority of costs are fixed. There's only a slower accumulation of accounting liabilities, which, ironically, cost Qantas very little to wipe at redemption time. Hence the high profits for the QFF programme and why it's the shining star in the Qantas portfolio.

Also ironically, much-derided incentives such as the DSC offers (which I expect will cease) were actually a revenue increase measure. They incented people to travel more and more expensively than they normally would have, by dangling a carrot.

The latest changes dangle some carrots, but they mostly threaten with sticks. That's not a good path to loyalty.

 

[barneynorman]

Go *thataway*.

Thanks for that. I'd really like to be an ongoing contributing member, but I do need some help quite quickly.

 

[Bundy Bear]

its posted

When I first read this I wondered whether it was a joke or was Markis10 serious.

Thanks RedRoo team; how to screw up a relatively easy program and turn it crud.

Increase squiggles, remove MASAs, maybe reduce the minimum mileage, would have been simple and fairer.

But lets make it fairer add all these extra hurdles, don't be so stupid.

Did you remove those loyalty bonuses as well, I really don't like the current system so you might as well get rid of them as well.

Maybe Qantas make so much money from selling points to credit cards the flying part cost us so much money so we don't want to people to earn points from actually flying.

Let see another 600 posts in 12 hours probably an AFF record.

 

[Ansett]

Wow is this a record 513 users?

 

[tuapekastar]

I just compared my DONE4 of a few years ago - old SC earn rates vs. new (had to fudge at least one flight as it is no longer offered) and it worked out to 1700 (old) vs. ~1640 (new). The itinerary was 15 flights, with only 2 of those on QF metal, so the changes don't seem that significant. Of course that is just one scenario, I'm sure some people will benefit significantly, some will remain fairly neutral, and some will lose out big time. But overall, the total points/SCs earn doesn't seem drastically affected...all of which I guess begs the question, why bother changing it in the first place? Given that the QFF scheme is one of QF's most profitable divisions, I would imagine this rewrite of scheme earnings would have been a significant undertaking, involving plenty of time and resources, both human and fiscal. I suppose they have crunched (and re-crunched) the new numbers and decided they worked.

Add me to the list of people mystified as to why QF is lessening (in some cases) the number of SCs earned on partner airlines on routes that QF does not even fly.

And I'll reiterate what i said in my only other post in this thread, calling the new earning tables 'simpler' or simplified' cf. the old ones has to be the spin of the century*. I don't think I would ever have the gall to make such a ludicrous claim.

*OK, everyone's brain works differently, and somewhere out there there are probably a few people to whom the new tables are simple cf. the old ones. But not many.

 

[gibspmuh]

And one strange thing I noticed...

Did a flight between HKG and TPE. Base point is 483. However, gcmap has 501 miles. Where is the missing 18 miles?

It wouldn't surprise me if they never updated the mileage when the airport moved in Hong Kong. That'd be about 18 miles between the two at a guess.

 

[ronone69]

QF are experts in screwing over their customers. They have been doing it for years. This is just another example. I am not by the way saying anyone else is any better, but QF are experts. As I don't fly on discounted economy fares, this is not really going to affect me EXCEPT with OneWorld (better described as NoWorld) status credits which have been halved. This is appalling. I like to fly CX over night from HKG -> MEL as their new Business seats are far more comfortable than the old QF skybed in the A330. I would fly QF if their product was as good on this sector as CX. I used to get 120 status credits for this - now I get 60. I also fly CX from SIN -> HKG. Will change this now to SQ with whom I almost always fly MEL->SIN as their product is far better QF. The SQ A380 product is great. I would have thought with the mess QF were in they would want to encourage customers not piss them off. Changing the Europe routes back to SIN and partnering would be a start - funny all these problems seem to have come up since QF started flying through Dubai. Where QF used to fly almost full planes to London each day, I understand most flights are less then 70% full !!! The fact that it is so much easier to get QF points tickets to London says it all - hey not for me, but the kids. I think the end is near....I would not be hording QF points!!!

 

[beaglex]

Although we are not regular ff my wife and I have accumulated quite a number of points and were looking at booking a J class flight later this year with our points. I gather now we will need to do it before 30 June.

We have been loyal to Qantas for over 40 years and consistently booked domestic and our rare international flights with them during this time. I think with this latest enhancement by Qantas will see us switch our loyalty to VA.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Changing the Europe routes back to SIN and partnering would be a start - funny all these problems seem to have come up since QF started flying through Dubai. Where QF used to fly almost full planes to London each day, I understand most flights are less then 70% full !!!

Have you verifiable proof of that statement ?


Very good table by Globaliser in the FT thread FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - New Earning Table (esp Partner Airlines)
http://i58.tinypic.com/14b6hi8.jpg

 

[legroom]

Should have just raised the number of squiggles required on QF.

Are you going to give them some ideas now ?