Heads up about program changes

[ian_baker58]

I would not be hording QF points!!!

YEP - agree, I've been burnt before with QF screwing around with the scheme over the years, so burned 1/2M points in OCT last year on SIN-LHR return in J (on EK metal - QF metal impossible to get onto even as WP), and MEL-SIN return in J (managed to get QF metal on that).

Shall be reviewing my WW Everyday Rewards and AMEX point allocations going forward! My 'paid J class opportunities' are now pretty much gone with retirement, so it back to the back of the plane going forward...

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

Add me to the list of people mystified as to why QF is lessening (in some cases) the number of SCs earned on partner airlines on routes that QF does not even fly.

I assume it's because they want fewer people to hit the higher tiers if those people don't fly QF. The reasoning is probably along the lines of "We wouldn't get their business anyway because we don't fly there, so why should we reward them?" Higher tier members earn bonus points, so Qantas's liabilities accumulate at a faster rate. These changes, I assume, are about throttling this rate so that the accounting profitability goes up. The irony is that the liabilities actually cost Qantas very little to wipe due to the clever way the QFF programme is designed.

 

[raleyoz]

Have you verifiable proof of that statement ?


Very good table by Globaliser in the FT thread FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - New Earning Table (esp Partner Airlines)
http://i58.tinypic.com/14b6hi8.jpg

not sure that chart is correct, however how the hell can I be sure

 

[Himeno]

When I first read this I wondered whether it was a joke or was Markis10 serious.

Thanks RedRoo team; how to screw up a relatively easy program and turn it crud.

Increase squiggles, remove MASAs, maybe reduce the minimum mileage, would have been simple and fairer.

They could have increased ~ required from say 4 to 6, and/or increased the QF marketed SC earn required. They already require 75% earn on QF codes for Platinum One. They could have made a sliding scale of QF earn % for the other levels.
eg
Silver 300/250 (75 on QF code)
Gold 700/600 (250 on QF code)
Platinum 1400/1200 (400 on QF code)

Did you remove those loyalty bonuses as well, I really don't like the current system so you might as well get rid of them as well.

Neither do I. In 2010, I got 6x5000 point loyalty bonuses. In 2011, they changed it to max of 4. Got all 4. In 2012, they increased the SC required. Still got all 4. Then last year they changed it to only QF code SC earn towards loyalty bonuses. Only half way to second with 4 months left in membership year and little to any travel planned in that time.

 

[TomVexille]

Bingo.

The current changes are a cost cutting measure. Except there's minimal real cost cutting involved, because the majority of costs are fixed. There's only a slower accumulation of accounting liabilities, which, ironically, cost Qantas very little to wipe at redemption time. Hence the high profits for the QFF programme and why it's the shining star in the Qantas portfolio.

Also ironically, much-derided incentives such as the DSC offers (which I expect will cease) were actually a revenue increase measure. They incented people to travel more and more expensively than they normally would have, by dangling a carrot.

The latest changes dangle some carrots, but they mostly threaten with sticks. That's not a good path to loyalty.

Well put. As far as I'm concerned all that's happened is a removal of incentives to fly QF/chase points.

 

[JohnK]

Should have just raised the number of squiggles required on QF.

That is a good idea and has been mentioned a few times on AFF. I wouldn't be surprised if that will also be implemented as a future enhancement.

We have been discussing loopholes and status on AFF for a long time. In my view Qantas provided the easier path to status for most people over any other Oneworld airline. Qantas is now changing the goalposts.

 

[TomVexille]

Wow is this a record 513 users?

Noticed 586 earlier.

 

[Himeno]

Are you going to give them some ideas now ?

QF has a problem and made these changes because of that problem. These are ideas of things they could have done to make the needed changes while not making things insanely complex or pissing off some of their best customers.
If QF then turns around and takes these ideas and uses them as well as these changes, they won't have anyone else willing to fly with them.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I think all they needed to do to achieve mostly the same results was to 1. increase squiggles, 2. reduce points earned for cheapest discount fares - e.g. class O, N, Q earn at 0.5, 3. introduce a multiplier for SC's earned - e.g. class P on AA accrues at 0.25 of the SC's stated for first class, or something like that.

But no, they chose to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Jean Prouvaire]

QF has a problem and made these changes because of that problem.

QF's problem is its high cost base. I don't believe the changes to the QFF programme will significantly decrease that cost base for reasons various people have outlined. So in my opinion it was a misjudged move. I do believe that there's a substantial risk that it will decrease QF's revenue stream by driving a non-negligible number of customers away. Which makes it a doubly-misjudged move.

 

[drron]

Thanks Serfty.I saw that table last night but it had vanished when I looked on the QF website this morning.probably being tidied up.Which means they had everything under control for the new program release!

 

[JohnK]

.I would not be hording QF points!!!

Too late for some of us. Is Qantas going broke?

Mum was lecturing me this morning about paying for airfares and not using my QFF points. She is probably right as usual.

 

[christopherc]

This evening, Qantas will announce some changes to the way Frequent Flyer members earn in the air as of 1 July 2014. As a community that is most familiar with our program, I wanted you to be one of the first to hear about the changes.

Overall, the focus is on making it easier for members to understand the number of Qantas Points and Status credits earned by moving from a distance based calculation, to a zonal earn table for both Qantas and Jetstar. There are also some changes to Status credit earn with other partner airlines.

We believe it’s a fairer way to earn points and Status credits as it will now more closely reflect the fare paid, route travelled and airline you choose, versus the miles flown.

Some of the key changes that you may find most notable are:

- an opportunity to earn more with Qantas on flexible fares, including in premium cabins
- new minimum points guarantee, according to the fare purchased
- a simplified Qantas and Jetstar earn table
- the option to book Any Seat Awards in Classic Award fare classes (X, Z, U and P) will be removed from 1 July 2014

I would like to take this opportunity to clarify our position regarding “MASAs”.

This change was wrapped up into the announcement today largely due to the timing. However the reason behind the change is not linked.

As you know, the changes to our booking engine last year removed the ability to sell “MASAs” online. We acknowledged “MASAs” are a highly valued benefit for some of our members, and have always said that they were under review.

The decision has now been made to discontinue “MASAs” as they represent a short cut to tier status and add a significant cost without the revenue in return.

The financial realities of our business have been well publicised, and I hope you can see the logic.

Please do take the time to read through the changes via https://www.qantas.com.au/fflyer/dyn/program/fairer-flying. I’ll be closely monitoring this thread and passing on feedback to the various stakeholders concerned.

Hello Roo,

As a share holder of QANTAS that's fine but as a QFF i really think that was the last thing to change as the QFF is one of the best in the world and many will move to AA. QANTAS should really improve the daily flights on several destinations instead of changing the program. I live in New Caledonia and since several months now QANTAS changed the flights between SYD and HKG and SYD and LAX (most common destinations for me) i have to change to Cathay flights and that's not good for the aussie company.
I love QANTAS for many reasons and i hope everything will be smoother soon.

 

[Lisee]

I would encourage everyone to go back and read post #517 because Jean Prouvaire has hit the nail on the head. Too many analysts have been crunching numbers and building models when workshopping these changes. Step back and look at the big picture:

- The fixed costs of providing status benefits are huge (lounges, etc)
- The incremental costs of providing status are minimal (actual consumption in the lounges, status earning.. many of the benefits actually cost them NOTHING to provide (seat selection, priority boarding, upgrade preferences, etc)
- People with status have a better flying experience so are likely to fly more often.

For the many customers, these changes have made status harder to achieve. So customers will either chase harder (a win for Qantas), give up the chase (a loss to Qantas) or chase elsewhere (massive loss to Qantas). I don't think many are going to chase harder.

Yes, this is simple unlike the new non-simple simpler QFF programme.

Status absolutely makes the difference for me between flying being enjoyable or a chore. I directly changed my spending behaviour in favour of Qantas when I got in chasing distance of firstly Gold then Platinum. I have continued to very purposely make all purchasing decisions re. flights be aimed towards maintaining Platinum for a number of years now. Prior to earning status, my spending behaviour was price-driven & thus QF got much less revenue from me or my workplace.

The hugely insulting email from "The Qantas Frequent Flyer Team" (lack of personal signature speaks volumes) informing me I am not rich enough to matter to Qantas has served to create such a vile distaste that I have already made concrete steps away from them. I loved Qantas as an Australian icon & till now have recommended it as first/only choice to all my International work colleagues who visit here for training. I do sincerely hope someone of influence within QF can rescue it from the disastrous leadership in place at the moment.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Yep it's very easy indeed

Less people flying
Emptier planes
More routes and flights cut

Fewer low-profit customers flying, more higher profit customers flying = QANTAS might actually make money/cover cost of capital, and survive.

The status quo is QANTAS keeps losing more and/or not covering cost of capital, and does an Ansett. Then there will be no planes and no routes at all.

Wake up to commercial reality guys - what they're doing today is not sustainable.

 

[Pooch]

Is it my imagination or have the number of VA-related ad's increased (for those of us scrooges) today?

 

[Himeno]

Wake up to commercial reality guys - what they're doing today is not sustainable.

Easy way to fix a lot of that problem.

Dump the "Must have 65% domestic market share at all cost" policy.

 

[Jetett]

I may not be a worldly QF FF, but I have been loyal. According to the JQ booking engine I can't book OOL_SYD_DRW and return as Jetstar requires 26 hours between first and second sectors outbound. err .. pardon me? It's not like I've got lot of choice off the Goldy to go too far on any QF flight either .. I am one of the suckers that pays the bit extra to continue S/C earn with the lesser outfit .. maybe, not anymore.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Easy way to fix a lot of that problem.

Dump the "Must have 65% domestic market share at all cost" policy.

I agree.

Hasn't QF given up stating how much capacity they're going to put onto the market now? I assume that's a step in the right direction.

But I doubt that's going to fix all of QF's problems. 65% of the dom market does nothing to address problems in QFi (for example), or the structural issues of Australia being at the cough-end of the world geographically.

 

[EmilyHoward]

If I had been sat at the Boardroom table, I don't think that I would have voted for EVERY ONE of these changes at this particular time or indeed all of them at once; now or in the future.

My thoughts would have been for introducing (now):

1. more points and SC earn for Platinum and even more for Platinum 1 both on Q and OW (with more on Q).
2. requirement for more Qantas flights pa to retain status.
3. re-introduction of online ASAs but restricting the seats available for different levels of FF. Perhaps increasing the $ cost.
4. differentiating the SC and point earn on different economy level and business level bookings.
5. bringing back Any Time Access for lounges for Platinum and Platinum 1 members.


Then I would have finished drinking my cup of tea.


EH