Heads up about program changes

[Clivem]

Yes, rampant jealousy is not really a very attractive emotion, and some here are so keen to display their negative side for all to see.

I was pretty content having stumbled across the newly uncovered 'SCSCM' acronym in this thread and that probably needs time to bed in first.
On that basis I'm guessing there isn't room to add the 'Rampant Jealous Exhibitionist' RJE right now.

 

[Sumnerned]

So to sum up


Those paying higher Y fares are probably going to be better off, which, one imagines, might annoy the discount Y flyers because the higher fare Y flyers might crowd the F lounge

I am really looking forward to crowding the Flounge, it's been a while.

 

[openseat]

I am still 2,500 SC's away from Lifetime Gold, far enough to ignore as a material reason to pump more to QF. I have Lifetime QC membership, so at least will always have access to the Lounge - that decision now looking like a very good one.

I'm in a similar situation. I had been back at QF looking to gain LTG, after giving up on AA when they changed their million miler count. Getting that extra million to get LTPlat on AA was a bridge too far.
I also have LTQC + LTS which is probably now my high water mark for QF.

I hope VA take the opportunity to offer some sort of lifetime status to inject some interest in the game.

 

[Awesom Andy]

So to sum up

Those flying Discount Y don't like those using MASA's and or other OW airlines to gain status and crowd the Lounges
Those not getting DSC offers don't like those that do using them in conjunction with MASA's to get QF WP and it's benefits
Those using MASA's to achieve status don't care what others think and look down on those that don't make the most of the system
Those flying OW airlines are miffed because the SC haul will fall - particularly galling when it is not possible to fly QF on a particular route.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe, may or may not be frequent flyers.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe are probably going to be better off and crowding the F lounge....once or twice a year.
Those paying higher Y fares are probably going to be better off, which, one imagines, might annoy the discount Y flyers because the higher fare Y flyers might crowd the F lounge
Those achieving high status through flying occasionally using MASA's and DSC's don't like the removal of the MASA
Those P1's achieving status through paid travel, no MASA's or DSC's like the MASA removal because they can access the benefits currently being taken by those achieving P1 through MASA's and/or DSC offers.
99% of those reading the new "simplified" warming tables don't find them simplified


Oh and we don't really know what a frequent flyer is.

And to sum this up, the program is fairer only if I keep my ability to maintain my status, while everyone else who do something differently from me is a SCSCM and they should should all be locked out of the F lounge. :mrgreen:

(I hope my flame-proof suit works)

 

[nlagalle]

As a full service legacy carrier the solution is not to dump every route that appears not to be profitable onto JQ.

Take away SYD-SIN and/or BNE-SIN and move it to JQ and Qantas will lose more customers than they are likely to lose from these changes.

Qantas should have split from Jetstar a long time ago.

What is the solution then JohnK? The way I see it is to literally JQ everything so the staff are on new awards, then convert the Orange cancer back to QF... Not saying I agree with the thought process, but name another way you can reduce your operating costs on an airline that is bloated?

 

[Warks]

Shoots himself in the foot IMHO.
Says costs QF $120 for an empty seat to MEL.
A Y award SYD-MEL is 8000 points which if they sell them for 1 cent each is $80 revenue.Then you get charged 35.15. So now at $115.15 revenue for that seat.Add on the CC surcharge and costs covered.

Yes one of the commenters had a calculation that valued seats at $80.

• It's lower than $120 per seat but I wouldn't say it's way lower. By my calculations it's close to $80 per seat based on the following:
  According to the Qantas annual report, their operating costs were about $15.5bn last year. The Available Seat Kms (ASK) were about 140,000,000,000 (total seats x total Kms flown). Divide the operating costs by the ASK and you get a cost of about $0.111 per seat per KM.
  Sydney - Melbourne is 713km so times that by the $0.111 per Km cost and you get just over $79 per seat. That's the cost of flying a plane between Melb and Syd - it can't be any more or any less than that.
  Maybe if you drill down further and take the associated freight costs (and revenue) out of the picture, you might get a higher figure (or lower) depending on whether or not the freight side of the business is profitable.
  So if a Melb - Syd plane has 300 seats, it needs to sell $23700 worth of fares before it's making a profit. It doesn't matter what the make up of those fares are, if the total is less than that, the flight is operating at a loss and that needs to be made up by other flights.
  ​
  CommenterMark LocationDate and timeMarch 31, 2014, 5:21PM

 

[Deleted member]

I've been trying to catch up with this thread for days but have given up on about 30 pages in the middle.

Anyway have a look at what Clive Dorman says:

Why Qantas frequent flyer changes are spot on

The feedback on that article seemed evenly split with pro and con making valid (and not so valid) points.
To me however it’s all noise, at the end of the day, Qantas will stand or fall on what the product offers to the customer.
I have been almost 100% loyal to QF, if I am"forced" to look elsewhere , then that’s just business.
I am still somewhat at a loss to understand the alternatives as I have been wedded to the QF experience.
All I can say for certain is that I will most definitelybe flying way less often with these changes.
But will I fly with another ? not sure, let’s wait and see

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Ah loyalty! What a funny old game it is.

FTR, I have been ignoring status and opting for alternate means. Maybe others will join me? I posted elsewhere that I've been fairly frequently flying to POM. I'm WP with VA but choose not to fly with them (for a variety of reasons). I could fly QF but it's typically dearer than PX for the exact same offering so I fly PX. No SCs, no points (I could but couldn't be bothered). Status is over rated IMHO. Fly the airline, the fare class, the time and the destination that suits you and forget the petty squabbling and scratching around in the dirt. That's my advice......take it or leave it.

 

[nlagalle]

If AJ had only been at the helm for a short amount of time you'd have an argument. But, he has had long enough to be well beyond the timeframe that allows him to point to the previous management and apportion blame. It's not even gone ok, it's got worse and getting worse still and Wayne Swan could have been in charge before AJ and he still couldn't blame him for the $hit he has steered the airline towards.

I've never said he is blameless, but i also believe he isn't the only one to blame.. Dixon and the previous board did no favours to help put QF where it is now..

 

[serfty]

...
99% of those reading the new "simplified" warming tables don't find them simplified
...

I think that percentage is a little bit low; I've fixed it for you:

Modified Original Post by TonyHancock
...
99.995% of those reading the new "simplified" warming tables don't find them simplified
...

 

[CMA222]

Well it certainly has created a quick moving thread - one that I have struggled to keep up.

I have Lifetime QC membership, so at least will always have access to the Lounge - that decision now looking like a very good one.

I have Life time access to Ansett Golden Wing - that decision looked like a good one at the time but I mistakenly thought it referred to my lifetime !! LOL

 

[QF WP]

I'm in a similar situation. I had been back at QF looking to gain LTG, after giving up on AA when they changed their million miler count. Getting that extra million to get LTPlat on AA was a bridge too far. I also have LTQC + LTS which is probably now my high water mark for QF.

Are you my twin - we are in EXACTLY the same situation. I share your pain.

I hope VA take the opportunity to offer some sort of lifetime status to inject some interest in the game.

Wouldn't that make the battle interesting - after all, they aren't an LCC anymore (they have Tiger for that). Even better if it is backdated to commencement of the program (unlike QF, where it was a line in the sand because it has been going so much longer).

QF just lost another seat to VA, as I needed to buy a revenue fare for BNE/MEL to go with my (last?) JASA MEL/BNE. VA base fare $119 versus QF $186 for similarly timed first flight of the day in 5 weeks (under BFOD - ignoring other costs). Just on that I couldn't in good conscience buy QF.

I just looked at my QF bookings - 3 JASA's [80 + 60 + 80 SC's] and 1 revenue [10 SC's] booked as well as 2 x $250 and 2 x $500 vouchers. That should last me until Q4 2014. Now to look at my previous 12 months flying and try to ascertain what my future flights will be, in order to try and work out my SC earn from QF and VA.

Also (thankfully), have a bunch of AAward flights as well (BNE/DRW/ASP...AYQ/ASP/ADL/BNE)...4 day weekend with spouse

 

[tomo69]

Ok guys and gals. There are so many posts and an overwhelming amount of information to digest.

So where to from here? For those of us who wish to maintain our gold status in future years with best use of QFF points, what are our best options??

 

[wandering_fred]

Ok guys and gals. There are so many posts and an overwhelming amount of information to digest.

So where to from here? For those of us who wish to maintain our gold status in future years with best use of QFF points, what are our best options??

The cynical part of me says that your question should read - what are our least worst options.

Happy wandering (through the anxiety of change management).

Fred

 

[whatmeworry]

Before these changes I was planning using my points for a J/FASA's to LHR. Before the axing of FRA I was planning a JASA's to FRA.

So now instead I will be using my points for a oneWORLD award which many would argue is a better use of points anyway.

So in summary because of the changes I will be burning my points on mainly other OW airlines and thus costing QF much more money then if they had just kept ASA's in place.

Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Qantas & Partner Classic Awards - Points Tables

 

[beardoc]

So to sum up

Those flying Discount Y don't like those using MASA's and or other OW airlines to gain status and crowd the Lounges
Those not getting DSC offers don't like those that do using them in conjunction with MASA's to get QF WP and it's benefits
Those using MASA's to achieve status don't care what others think and look down on those that don't make the most of the system
Those flying OW airlines are miffed because the SC haul will fall - particularly galling when it is not possible to fly QF on a particular route.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe, may or may not be frequent flyers.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe are probably going to be better off and crowding the F lounge....once or twice a year.
Those paying higher Y fares are probably going to be better off, which, one imagines, might annoy the discount Y flyers because the higher fare Y flyers might crowd the F lounge
Those achieving high status through flying occasionally using MASA's and DSC's don't like the removal of the MASA
Those P1's achieving status through paid travel, no MASA's or DSC's like the MASA removal because they can access the benefits currently being taken by those achieving P1 through MASA's and/or DSC offers.
99% of those reading the new "simplified" earning tables don't find them simplified


Oh and we don't really know what a frequent flyer is.

Exactly. The whole thing about people trying to define what a frequent flyer is ridiculous. People will naturally choose a definition that includes what they do, but will exclude people that do something other than what they do. Remember the "Hi Viz in the Business Lounge" thread?

The reality is that people that achieve SG, WP, etc. achieved it legitimately. It might not be the way you would do it but that constant argument about who is a "legitimate" WP and who isn't helpful. There is a final referee when it comes to these things. It's Qantas. They decide who is legitimate and who isn't.

However, they also get to change the goalposts. So the game changes. It is always going to change. The fact that someone else has status, no matter how they got it, does NOT devalue the status you have.

 

[defurax]

Ok guys and gals. There are so many posts and an overwhelming amount of information to digest.

So where to from here? For those of us who wish to maintain our gold status in future years with best use of QFF points, what are our best options??

I might be wrong, but I think after 1st of July the only way to use your points to gain status will be to buy "stuff" with your points (e.g toasters), sell the "stuff" on eBay and buy flexible tickets with the money

 

[Sumnerned]

I might be wrong, but I think after 1st of July the only way to use your points to gain status will be to buy "stuff" with your points (e.g toasters), sell the "stuff" on eBay and buy flexible tickets with the money

Probably more efficient than points plus pay though..

 

[Princess Fiona]

"Four legs good, two legs better!
All Animals Are Equal. But Some Animals Are More Equal Than Others"

 

[hossein_au]

Well well well. As a hard earned discount Y platinum (1 JASA one way only) I for one welcome if I go to the F lounge and it's not full to the brim of people who earn squillions if points through their spending in their CC program, redeem them for FASAs and JASAs to get status (especially JASA status runs) and then fill the Flounge. There are very small and few rewards for having to travel as much as I do (and a lot of others) and getting a seat (and if the gods truly have mercy) and a massage in the flounge is great distraction from the hell that is Y long haul. Please QFF, clean out the xASA Platinums. Let the flames begin!

No flaming; but I guest flying mostly discount economy, you will be one of those cleared out of Flounges!