Heads up about program changes

[medhead]

They are fixed and sunk *in the short term*. In the long term, all costs are flexible. It costs money to build the next version of an IT system. It costs money to buy the next plane. It costs money to rent and outfit a particularly sized lounge.

All this banging on about how profitable these fares are flies directly in the face of what the people actually providing the service are saying.
It also flies in the face of what *every other airline* in the world is doing.

Yet, somehow, without access to the actual books, any statistical data, or even any experience running an airline, this forum's in a position to state that QF's cutting off a profitable venture? Surely the reverse conclusion - that you're wrong - is far more likely?

Sorry but that is a joke. These changes do not make the seats anymore profitable. They are still going to sell the seats for the same cost, they are still going to struggle to fill the cheap seats. Now they have just encouraged people to look elsewhere making it even harder to fill the back of the plane. They simply are not going to get more of the higher fares out of this change. Seriously if the back of the plane is empty it is costing them money. Sorry but filling up the business cabin is not going to magically make profit without those cheap seats.

For the majority of my flights qantas is going to save themselves 650 points per flight. $6.50 if I'm generous. They're already 16% more expensive than the competition. They already save $6.50 from me via the luggage I don't check in and the meals I don't eat. Cutting the points like this will not make me spend more, it will make me save the 16% and fly with the BFOD. Simply point it is wrong to suggest selling the cheap seats is meaningless.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Qantas made a serious mistake when they allowed SCs earning on Any Seat awards.
Now surely I am allowed to have an opinion on something and post that opinion as easily as people were bragging and gloating about their Any Seat award achievements?

Just catching up with this thread. I think JessicaTam did a great job in maintaining the spreadsheet. I don't recall columns marked 'bragging' or 'gloating', IIRC it was about transparency and education. One of the issues with ASAs was the apparent inconsistency in the amounts levied for taxes fees and charges. The spreadsheet helped people work out what was reasonable. Because it was available to all, including RedRoo, it also helped QF identify issues with their CSOs. Thank you JessicaTam!

I really value the posts which indicate what people are doing in light of these changes and why, particularly where people have added some analysis of the changes, how they are impacted, and what they will do. Identifying sweet spots, like the marginal increase in partner SC earn for flights between 3,500 and 3,600 (does anyone know such sectors?). And traps, like the SC earn on OW partners from East Coast AU to South East Asia.

The polemic and moralising I value not so much.

On my reckoning at this stage I will continue to go with CX for DXB-BNE as they offer excellent fares for a great J product, and will stick with QFF SC earn as I still get 75% of the SCs I formerly did. I will aim to squeeze in one or two ASAs before 30 June, because I never know when my job might be cut, and it helps to requal as soon as possible. If this is bragging, bring on the braggarts!

Cheers skip

 

[JohnPhelan]

Goodbye Joyce, you complete idiot. You have screwed over good people and a good airline. Rot in hell.

Well at least you didn't accuse him of being Irish or short, I suppose .........

 

[JohnPhelan]

PLUS QANTAS has given away all of its profitable runs to Jetstar.

Yep, I love all those JQ flights to America.

 

[wandering_fred]

Yep, I love all those JQ flights to America.

are you flying the max biz fare to HNL ?

Consider the viewpoint when living in ADL or PER.

I'm waiting for AA to AKL, AA codeshares on CX HKG-PER and UL finally flying to Australia

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[JohnK]

i'm not talking about the pilots. if JQ's operating costs are far lower than QF's, then as a business it makes sense. that's the weight of a legacy carrier... Most have already had changes in the last few years.. time for QF to do the same to remain viable..

As a full service legacy carrier the solution is not to dump every route that appears not to be profitable onto JQ.

Take away SYD-SIN and/or BNE-SIN and move it to JQ and Qantas will lose more customers than they are likely to lose from these changes.

Qantas should have split from Jetstar a long time ago.

 

[Sumnerned]

You're quite right of course. The year before Mr Joyce took the reins, QF Group made a profit of $1.4B on revenues of $16.2B with a Jet Fuel price of US$3.88/Gal.

Joyce can't be held responsible for that, but for everything since.

Regards,

BD

Wow! I never realised AJ was so powerful. Is he also responsible for the predatory actions of Star Alliance and Emirates plus the arrival of Air Asia, Tiger etc., not to mention the mining boom and the consequent overvalued A$. What a man!

 

[Robbi]

I'd suggest a new thread be created to have what Awesom Andy is doing.

The "Heads Up" thread has served its purpose, I think.

It's time to move onto how to "use" the new guidelines (or should I mention JohnK's vernacular ?).

Well done, Andy !

I second this. This is what AFF is about IMO.

 

[Pat2065]

These changes really have opened up a lot of emotion and, in some cases, wounds. Some excellent comments between some rants.

I have been a QFF for more than 25 years and a WP who these days flies J internationally 2-3 times a year on holiday and discount Y domestically for work (self-employed). I've enjoyed a few MASAs in J and will sorely miss them as the standard JASA rates are excessive.

It can't be in QF's interest to ***-off their FFs given the value to QF but maybe it's a preparation for a least a partial sale of the program. However, no matter what they do or why, making so many changes over the last couple of years is very unsettling for members and leads to resentment and suspicion both of which are the antithesis of loyalty. A 'fairer' system might well be appropriate but it is better to enhance for those they consider are being treated unfairly than take away from those who are seen as being over-rewarded.

I am not thrilled about the latest changes but will wait and see as the alternatives are not obviously a lot more attractive to me. My husband (also WP) and I have burned up almost 1 million points in January, including a MASA in J for two for early next year, in anticipation of a possible downgrading of the program. Glad we did but sorry we felt we needed to.

 

[sumthinfornuthin]

Careful, you never know who's lurking; could be another "Enhancement" in the works to make it "Simplified & Fairer".

You Double dipper you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

You Double dipper you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buy the ticket on a QFF credit card and you can triple dip. In many cases you'll still get less than before.

 

[Sdtravel]

Buy the ticket on a QFF credit card and you can triple dip. In many cases you'll still get less than before.

SHHHHH!! Dont tell them about that or it will become another "Enhancement"

 

[Sumnerned]

The view from New Zealand.
We have been members of QFF for quite a while. My wife's membership starts with 0, mine with 1. We originally joined because QF had great schedules and reasonable prices. Over the years we have lost a lot, with QF NZ gone, along with the lounges. At times we have lost heart and have travelled with Emirates, Korean, AirNZ, AirAsia, to name a few. A lot of our shorthaul travel is in Europe where there is seldom a oneworld offering that is even close to competitive, and the rewards for using them are often trivial. As a conseqence we have, as a family, 14 easyJet flights booked in the next three months between UK Portugal, Spain and Germany.
But we keep coming back to QF because of the excellent lounges, and the QFF benefits. We usually travel discount economy, all self-funded, with the occasional reward, this year so far a points plus pay to Hobart and JASA's for SYD-LHR.
So some of you might say we have nothing much to lose, but I have to say my first reaction was major disappointment that I had let my points stock decline so far, as we are planning a xonex trip and need as many points as we can get in the coming months.
We will probably end up buying some higher fare tickets to get better rewarded. We will continue to resist chasing status beyond silver as we have access to QF lounges anyway.
Over the years I have tended to become a bit grumpy about our situation, especially as it seemed there were lots of people who had high status with QFF who did not use QF much. We, regular flyers with 5 QFF members in the immediate family, got one opup for two people, and one for one person, in 13 years.
So, I am looking to a fairer system where those of us who fly QF get our fair share of rewards for doing so.

 

[QF WP]

Well it certainly has created a quick moving thread - one that I have struggled to keep up.

I haven't crunched my numbers fully, as I am aware there are some that are building spreadsheets/programs and they have graciously invited me to participate.

In the previous version of my business, my employer (family coy owned by parents) paid for my travels as I was significantly building a new division and we used the old adage "speculate to accumulate". I flew Flexi on QF only, enjoyed Plat for 5.5 years.

Now that my parents have sold the business to me and 2 other partners, I have been BFOD (for 7 years now) and I fund my own travel [as I am the only one required to travel). What I set up has now become a lodestone.

I have been able to maintain QF Gold via MASA's and flying Flexi on occasions for my returns (where I've needed the ability to change flights). The occasional QF bone (DSC) also helped.

VA Gold was given (status match) and then Plat has been maintained via family pooling (for holiday travel) and re-directing some flying from QF (often now it's QF one way and VA return, assuming similar costs).

I now have to see whether my flying patterns (BNE > SYD/CBR/MEL/ADL/PER and occasional others) can sustain 2 programs at elite level. Certainly I am unwilling to give up VA Plat and I suspect this will now be my number 1 program. I am still 2,500 SC's away from Lifetime Gold, far enough to ignore as a material reason to pump more to QF. I have Lifetime QC membership, so at least will always have access to the Lounge - that decision now looking like a very good one.

 

[harvyk]

Over the years I have tended to become a bit grumpy about our situation, especially as it seemed there were lots of people who had high status with QFF who did not use QF much.

Glad to see I'm not the one one...

 

[Warks]

I've been trying to catch up with this thread for days but have given up on about 30 pages in the middle.

Anyway have a look at what Clive Dorman says:

Why Qantas frequent flyer changes are spot on

 

[drron]

I've been trying to catch up with this thread for days but have given up on about 30 pages in the middle.

Anyway have a look at what Clive Dorman says:

Why Qantas frequent flyer changes are spot on

Shoots himself in the foot IMHO.
Says costs QF $120 for an empty seat to MEL.
A Y award SYD-MEL is 8000 points which if they sell them for 1 cent each is $80 revenue.Then you get charged 35.15. So now at $115.15 revenue for that seat.Add on the CC surcharge and costs covered.

 

[TonyHancock]

So to sum up

Those flying Discount Y don't like those using MASA's and or other OW airlines to gain status and crowd the Lounges
Those not getting DSC offers don't like those that do using them in conjunction with MASA's to get QF WP and it's benefits
Those using MASA's to achieve status don't care what others think and look down on those that don't make the most of the system
Those flying OW airlines are miffed because the SC haul will fall - particularly galling when it is not possible to fly QF on a particular route.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe, may or may not be frequent flyers.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe are probably going to be better off and crowding the F lounge....once or twice a year.
Those paying higher Y fares are probably going to be better off, which, one imagines, might annoy the discount Y flyers because the higher fare Y flyers might crowd the F lounge
Those achieving high status through flying occasionally using MASA's and DSC's don't like the removal of the MASA
Those P1's achieving status through paid travel, no MASA's or DSC's like the MASA removal because they can access the benefits currently being taken by those achieving P1 through MASA's and/or DSC offers.
99% of those reading the new "simplified" earning tables don't find them simplified


Oh and we don't really know what a frequent flyer is.

 

[burmans]

So to sum up

Those flying Discount Y don't like those using MASA's and or other OW airlines to gain status and crowd the Lounges
Those not getting DSC offers don't like those that do using them in conjunction with MASA's to get QF WP and it's benefits
Those using MASA's to achieve status don't care what others think and look down on those that don't make the most of the system
Those flying OW airlines are miffed because the SC haul will fall - particularly galling when it is not possible to fly QF on a particular route.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe, may or may not be frequent flyers.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe are probably going to be better off and crowding the F lounge....once or twice a year.
Those paying higher Y fares are probably going to be better off, which, one imagines, might annoy the discount Y flyers because the higher fare Y flyers might crowd the F lounge
Those achieving high status through flying occasionally using MASA's and DSC's don't like the removal of the MASA
Those P1's achieving status through paid travel, no MASA's or DSC's like the MASA removal because they can access the benefits currently being taken by those achieving P1 through MASA's and/or DSC offers.
99% of those reading the new "simplified" warming tables don't find them simplified


Oh and we don't really know what a frequent flyer is.

Yes, rampant jealousy is not really a very attractive emotion, and some here are so keen to display their negative side for all to see.

 

[legroom]

So to sum up

Those flying Discount Y don't like those using MASA's and or other OW airlines to gain status and crowd the Lounges
Those not getting DSC offers don't like those that do using them in conjunction with MASA's to get QF WP and it's benefits
Those using MASA's to achieve status don't care what others think and look down on those that don't make the most of the system
Those flying OW airlines are miffed because the SC haul will fall - particularly galling when it is not possible to fly QF on a particular route.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe, may or may not be frequent flyers.
Those flying in the premium cabins once or twice a year to Europe are probably going to be better off and crowding the F lounge....once or twice a year.
Those paying higher Y fares are probably going to be better off, which, one imagines, might annoy the discount Y flyers because the higher fare Y flyers might crowd the F lounge
Those achieving high status through flying occasionally using MASA's and DSC's don't like the removal of the MASA
Those P1's achieving status through paid travel, no MASA's or DSC's like the MASA removal because they can access the benefits currently being taken by those achieving P1 through MASA's and/or DSC offers.
99% of those reading the new "simplified" warming tables don't find them simplified


Oh and we don't really know what a frequent flyer is.

Tony,

I'd prefer the premium cabins to being a WP sitting at the back of the bus

In other words, happy to be an infrequent flyer !

Your summary was spot on. I was thinking along the same line. Could not have put it any better. Well done !