How to make enemies...! [by weighing carry-on]

[trippin_the_rift]

Who set the policy/limits the staff or management? If the staff are merely enforcing the set policy/limits which as a consequence is adversely affecting the customers experience perhaps the people who set the rules should be the target of your ire?

Unfortunately now days with the way organisations are set-up it is nearly impossible to complain direct to the levels of management where these rules are actually structured & the staff on the ground are the recipients of all the complaints, abuse etc

Frontline staff are empowered to make the right choices. Sometimes, this means acting outside the SOP because it's the 'right thing' for the passenger in that particular circumstance. These are the moments when passengers feel like a valued customer.

Unfortunately now days with the way organisations are set-up it is nearly impossible to complain direct to the levels of management where these rules are actually structured & the staff on the ground are the recipients of all the complaints, abuse etc

Hold up, cowboy. I Head up Loyalty at a major Oneworld airline, and I make myself accessible to the public. Heck, I spend time at the airport after work to speak with and engage with passengers on a near-daily basis.

I've made multiple changes to policies, lounge access rules, ticketing rules, baggage and a lot more - purely based on having spent that time on the ground getting to know the intricacies of the frequent flyers life, and the quirks which they encounter. Policies can always be improved. It's always WIP.

So IMO, it's not that senior management is not accessible - It's that for the vast majority of airlines - execs are super busy, receiving 100's or 1000's of emails/day, and/or - they simply don't care about investing into the effort at the ground level. My leadership style is that of from the front. My team see me being a geek and while they make fun of me - ultimately my actions instil confidence that their leader is in touch with the reality of the program, and of the members. That confidence in the team shines through in negotiations with partners, in their day to day work, and in general keeps the strong momentum going as they go about their daily work.

I believe for airlines, there is a direct correlation between time spent at the customer level and the overall health of a business. Nothing beats constructive customer feedback, and the best way to see it is to live and breath the experience on a daily basis.

 

[fifo]

Here's some feedback for you: Remove carryon weight limits (or make them reasonable like BAs 23lg)! Just like in the usa. No issues with keeping size. Then again, you could be from BA. So no harm no foul.

 

[Hvr]

Frontline staff are empowered to make the right choices.

And I'm sure, supported if genuinely trying to do the right thing by the passenger. If staff are confident making a decision, even if it occasionally turns out to be the wrong one then they will seek to do even better for their organisation and its customers.

I wonder how often a front line person knows that the unique situation they're facing needs some creative resolution that they're simply not authorised to provide because it's not written in 'the book'? And they know that if they did do it, they would be disciplined regardless of the outcome.

 

[jeza]

Frontline staff are empowered to make the right choices. Sometimes, this means acting outside the SOP because it's the 'right thing' for the passenger in that particular circumstance. These are the moments when passengers feel like a valued customer.



Hold up, cowboy. I Head up Loyalty at a major Oneworld airline, and I make myself accessible to the public. Heck, I spend time at the airport after work to speak with and engage with passengers on a near-daily basis.

I've made multiple changes to policies, lounge access rules, ticketing rules, baggage and a lot more - purely based on having spent that time on the ground getting to know the intricacies of the frequent flyers life, and the quirks which they encounter. Policies can always be improved. It's always WIP.

So IMO, it's not that senior management is not accessible - It's that for the vast majority of airlines - execs are super busy, receiving 100's or 1000's of emails/day, and/or - they simply don't care about investing into the effort at the ground level. My leadership style is that of from the front. My team see me being a geek and while they make fun of me - ultimately my actions instil confidence that their leader is in touch with the reality of the program, and of the members. That confidence in the team shines through in negotiations with partners, in their day to day work, and in general keeps the strong momentum going as they go about their daily work.

I believe for airlines, there is a direct correlation between time spent at the customer level and the overall health of a business. Nothing beats constructive customer feedback, and the best way to see it is to live and breath the experience on a daily basis.

Your involved in the industry, that's great! I'm not being facetious (or pulling the piss as I would say in Cowboy land), it is really good to read experiences & opinions of those that see it from the inside. Hang on... having said that... you might be responsible for some of those program enhancements that everyone professes their love for on here

Whilst you may be on the ground talking to the customer, interacting with staff & being a hands on manager I don't believe that level of accessibility is the rule & that was my point of contention, not a swipe at you. Just reading this forum or any consumer based forum clearly illustrates that. The steps people have to go through now to get matters escalated to a level of responsibility where it can be resolved seem quite extraordinary at times & across just about every industry..

Most have done it, I know I have but any employee doing the "right thing" for the customer or company in contravention of a SOP, CP, SWMS etc will have that article used against them in any subsequent investigation should something go wrong.

Apologies to the Mods for straying away from the main topic of the thread

Yee-har!

 

[trippin_the_rift]

..... Hang on... having said that... you might be responsible for some of those program enhancements that everyone professes their love for on here

There is a story or two in your words, but I guarantee you there have been no enhancements on my watch. Nor will I let there be any changes which negatively affect members. Loyalty programs are there to add value, to breathe life into an otherwise commoditized product. The second the loyalty managers start stripping away benefits, reducing earn, or increasing redemptions - you know the member was unlikely put first, and there is another agenda playing out.

My members always have, and always will come first. The money will follow.

Looping back to the topic - some airlines 'police' the boarding gate for bags which are too heavy, and charge hefty fees to gate-check them. It's a revenue stream!

 

[Deleted member]

Here's some feedback for you: Remove carryon weight limits (or make them reasonable like BAs 23lg)! Just like in the usa. No issues with keeping size. Then again, you could be from BA. So no harm no foul.

Or more importantly, make carryon limits different for premium (frequent) flyers.

 

[Deleted member]

Frontline staff are empowered to make the right choices. Sometimes, this means acting outside the SOP because it's the 'right thing' for the passenger in that particular circumstance. These are the moments when passengers feel like a valued customer.



Hold up, cowboy. I Head up Loyalty at a major Oneworld airline, and I make myself accessible to the public. Heck, I spend time at the airport after work to speak with and engage with passengers on a near-daily basis.

I've made multiple changes to policies, lounge access rules, ticketing rules, baggage and a lot more - purely based on having spent that time on the ground getting to know the intricacies of the frequent flyers life, and the quirks which they encounter. Policies can always be improved. It's always WIP.

So IMO, it's not that senior management is not accessible - It's that for the vast majority of airlines - execs are super busy, receiving 100's or 1000's of emails/day, and/or - they simply don't care about investing into the effort at the ground level. My leadership style is that of from the front. My team see me being a geek and while they make fun of me - ultimately my actions instil confidence that their leader is in touch with the reality of the program, and of the members. That confidence in the team shines through in negotiations with partners, in their day to day work, and in general keeps the strong momentum going as they go about their daily work.

I believe for airlines, there is a direct correlation between time spent at the customer level and the overall health of a business. Nothing beats constructive customer feedback, and the best way to see it is to live and breath the experience on a daily basis.

I sometimes wonder that if instead of using email to send a complaint to an airline, we instead wrote a letter and stuck a stamp on it, that complaints would fall in number by around 80m% ( my numbers, just guessing)

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I sometimes wonder that if instead of using email to send a complaint to an airline, we instead wrote a letter and stuck a stamp on it, that complaints would fall in number by around 80m% ( my numbers, just guessing)

Whatsapp works best for me. Always best to be direct in a complaint stating what happened and how it can be fixed. Any decent loyalty/CS rep will figure out a goodwill gesture back to you if warranted. No need to ask for anything - it only makes the complaint look weak. By giving ideas on how to fix something, you also strengthen your position as a genuine complaint.

Maybe this needs it's own thread.

 

[suze2000]

Or more importantly, make carryon limits different for premium (frequent) flyers.

I'm not a premium flyer - I fly what I consider a lot, but it doesn't count as such to anyone that matters, and 95% of the time it's HLO. I'd like a 10kg limit too, and don't see why the rules should be different for those with status. To me, the issue is the SIZE of the baggage. An Australian domestic standard carryon is unlikely to weigh more than 12 to 14kg unless you fill it with those theoretical housebricks. I doubt I've ever cracked more than 10kg, unless there's wine bottles in the bag, but my bag is almost always more than 8kg. Enforce the size limits so there's room for everyone's stuff, it's not that hard. Put a perspex frame around the xray machine at security and if the bag doesn't fit, the pax goes back to the counter to have it checked in. Simples.

 

[maia200]

Absolutely no consistency. Have done a number of domestic flights lately and never had my bags weighed at any centre.

 

[Quickstatus]

I’m sure we’ve discussed it at some point, but it would be interesting to see just what the real load is. Weigh the passengers, all luggage. Everything. It is very rare to make fuel on a long trip....but not at all uncommon to go down. Sometimes you can readily see why, be it weather, or altitude blockage. Sometimes not...

What’s the usual difference between actual fuel consumed and predicted when you operated the 94?.

If the difference is small the actual weights must not be too far off the presumed weights?

 

[JohnPhelan]

I sometimes wonder that if instead of using email to send a complaint to an airline, we instead wrote a letter and stuck a stamp on it, that complaints would fall in number by around 80m% ( my numbers, just guessing)

I have only ever lodged three complaints with airlines. On two of those occasions, I sent a hard copy letter by mail. Both times I got a detailed, individual response from the airline (one in my favour, one not). The email complaint got an OK response. So I do agree that if you go to the effort to make a complaint 'properly', you're more likely to get a proper response.

 

[Yarros]

QF449 mid afternoon yesterday. Smiling cabin crew weighing everyone’s carry-on. Large number of ‘fails’ and flustered ground staff trying to hand write tags and put bags down the chute. Lots of unhappy pax faces with one lady particularly ticked off. Waited 40 minutes at the carousel in Melbourne and finally retrieved my expensive and now slightly battered bag. Forced to ask the question - Who at Qantas comes up with these random raids on happiness? And why would there not be an email or lounge announcement to warn pax, particularly FFs? Is there a specific “let’s think of some random rule to enforce to really make them mad” department at QF?

As a sideshow, saw the very unhappy lady from the gate in SYD pulled over by the police on the Tulla, presumably for speeding. Baby, was she having a very bad day!

 

[mrsterryn]

Just out of curiosity why would Qantas email that they enforcing the carry on rules in random flights ?
Possible as these have only started recently perhaps send put a generic email reminding people of the limits ?
OT husband was coming home Friday through Sans Souci and the left lane had police lights , truck etc and no cars.
Ferrari zoomed up beside up and ...yep boom.
Husband thinks major damage on Ferrari running into back of truck.
Definitely would have wrecked his weekend

 

[serfty]

Forced to ask the question - Who at Qantas comes up with these random raids on happiness?

Look upthread (How to make enemies...! [by weighing carry-on]) - apparently there's a sporadic 'work to rule' type of campaign going on by disgruntled staff.

 

[Franky]

Is there a specific “let’s think of some random rule to enforce to really make them mad” department at QF?

Why not?, the AFL does it every weekend during the footy season..

Bit sad for the lady who had the off day, as the Willie Nelson song goes, some days are diamonds, some days are stones.

 

[Beano]

Qantas are very lax about checking carry-on. I have never been challenged, however in Adelaide I watched a Jetstar staff member check every carry on and some were asked to check in bags, no doubt paying.

 

[pauly7]

Look up thread (How to make enemies...! [by weighing carry-on]) - apparently there's a sporadic 'work to rule' type of campaign going on by disgruntled staff.

That’s interesting to read if it’s true!

Do we have any reason for VA doing it as well randomly?

(We all know why JQ do it $$$)

 

[SeatBackForward]

I can't fathom why people are shocked by this to be honest. If you got booked for speeding at 100 in a 70km/h zone, you wouldn't say "but you've never enforced the speed limit here before".

 

[Beano]

I think the shock is that they are doing it at all. If you can't trust people then you have to introduce rigorous policing.