How will Ukraine Situation affect travel

[Jenya]

Japanese airlines began to cancel flights to Moscow...

 

[PineappleSkip]

Question of practicalities of another routing vs the principles of paying overflight fees to Russia

What overflight fees are these? IIRC, Russia agreed to cease charging overflight fees as part of the lead up to its WTO accession in 2014.

The real question is what Russia would do about overflight rights in response to the inevitable further sanctions.

What If Moscow Cancels Airline Overflight Rights?

I don't support Putin's idiocy on Ukraine for a minute, but he seems to have played a canny game in terms of insulating Russia from sanctions.

 

[jrfsp]

What overflight fees are these? IIRC, Russia agreed to cease charging overflight fees as part of the lead up to its WTO accession in 2014.

The real question is what Russia would do about overflight rights in response to the inevitable further sanctions.

What If Moscow Cancels Airline Overflight Rights?

I don't support Putin's idiocy on Ukraine for a minute, but he seems to have played a canny game in terms of insulating Russia from sanctions.

I thought ceasing of these fees only applied to European airlines, wouldnt apply to QF

Russia and the EU agree on ending Siberian overflight charges

Negotiations between the EU and Russia over the latter’s entry to the WTO will result in a normalisation of bilateral air services agreements between EU states and Russia and an overhaul of the long-maligned Russian overflight rules and charges.

centreforaviation.com

 

[antycbr]

Once the sanctions regime starts I expect that all spare parts supply from Airbus and Boeing will cease. The leasing companies will be after their aircraft leased to S7 and other Russian airlines as well, so if they are flown outside Russia they will be seized.

Perhaps S7 and SU can be kicked out of their alliances?

 

[PineappleSkip]

I thought ceasing of these fees only applied to European airlines, wouldnt apply to QF

Russia and the EU agree on ending Siberian overflight charges

Negotiations between the EU and Russia over the latter’s entry to the WTO will result in a normalisation of bilateral air services agreements between EU states and Russia and an overhaul of the long-maligned Russian overflight rules and charges.

centreforaviation.com

You could be right.

Russian airspace - the most expensive one in the world!

East Asia and Europe, regions with over 2.5 billion people, make up a third of the world's population. Beside significant economic activity, these regions have some of the largest, most interesting and most powerful cities in the world. There is only one country between these two regions -...

www.croatianaviation.com

still a balancing act between fees and rights though.

 

[Jenya]

Once the sanctions regime starts I expect that all spare parts supply from Airbus and Boeing will cease. The leasing companies will be after their aircraft leased to S7 and other Russian airlines as well, so if they are flown outside Russia they will be seized.

Perhaps S7 and SU can be kicked out of their alliances?

I honestly hope this will happen. Same in many other industries.
But chances are very slim, as it money that dictates political decisions. Same as Australia will never really stand up to China and Xi knows this very well

 

[antycbr]

I honestly hope this will happen. Same in many other industries.
But chances are very slim, as it money that dictates political decisions. Same as Australia will never really stand up to China and Xi knows this very well

Once the Russians start using civilian aircraft for lift it becomes a military matter.

Leasing companies will get caught up in the sanctions for sure.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I honestly hope this will happen. Same in many other industries.
But chances are very slim, as it money that dictates political decisions.

It will happen. The rich and corrupt in both Russia and Ukraine hold plenty of the blame for what has and is going to occur.

Any trade with Russia will be very difficult. Though, the energy and commodity markets are the ones that matter the most.

 

[jb747]

What overflight fees are these? IIRC, Russia agreed to cease charging overflight fees as part of the lead up to its WTO accession in 2014.

ATC isn’t free. I’d expect they’re variations on route, terminal, navigation and communication charges, which is what they’re called in the Eurocontrol regions.

 

[NM]

[Mod Hat]
Keep the discussion in this thread to the effect on travel. General commends about the war and not related to travel will be moved or removed.
[/Mod Hat]

 

[tgh]

General commends about the war and not related to travel will be moved

I don't get this….Why ?
Can you please define this moderation in a manner that folks might understand?
The topic says Ukraine situation and I suggest that discussing the Russian Invasion is the essence of the Ukraine travel situation.
The Ukraine situation has affected travel because the Russians have invaded a functioning democracy .
Are you wanting a new topic for every single noun describing something that is not absolutely word specific to the thread title ?

 

[jrfsp]

UK has banned russian airlines from its airspace, expecting EU and US will follow.

Its looking very unlikely QF will be able to continue overflying Russia

 

[antycbr]

QF1 path Source: The Australian (who stole it from FR24)

If Russian overflights are banned, things could get very crowded in the Middle East.

 

[dajop]

US has put restrictions of overflight by US carrier of western Russia, Ukraine and Belarus

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/us_restrictions/media/KICZ_A0005-22_Prohibitory_NOTAM-Russia_MOSCOW_SAMARA_and_ROSTOV_FIRs_(20220224_1930Z).pdf

FAA expands area in eastern Europe, Russia where U.S. airlines cannot operate

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said on Thursday it was expanding the area in eastern Europe and Russia where U.S. airlines and U.S. pilots cannot operate following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.reuters.com

 

[antycbr]

US has put restrictions of overflight by US carrier of western Russia, Ukraine and Belarus

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/us_restrictions/media/KICZ_A0005-22_Prohibitory_NOTAM-Russia_MOSCOW_SAMARA_and_ROSTOV_FIRs_(20220224_1930Z).pdf

FAA expands area in eastern Europe, Russia where U.S. airlines cannot operate

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said on Thursday it was expanding the area in eastern Europe and Russia where U.S. airlines and U.S. pilots cannot operate following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

www.reuters.com

There's very little US air traffic in that region. Let's see if they ban overflight of RU registered airlines over US territory.

The UK version is pretty broad:

“No aircraft on a scheduled service which is owned, chartered or operated by a person connected with Russia, or which is registered in Russia shall fly in United Kingdom airspace,” reads a bulletin to pilots just published by the UK Department For Transport.

 

[Michenny]

Once the sanctions regime starts I expect that all spare parts supply from Airbus and Boeing will cease. The leasing companies will be after their aircraft leased to S7 and other Russian airlines as well, so if they are flown outside Russia they will be seized.

Perhaps S7 and SU can be kicked out of their alliances?

your on the money there mate. Boeing has stopped getting titanium for their blades for the engines as of today

 

[antycbr]

your on the money there mate. Boeing has stopped getting titanium for their blades for the engines as of today

According to the USGS the source of titanium imported into the US was sourced from Kazakstan and Russia for Ingots. Japan made the most Titanium sponge and I am sure that if needs must things can be prioritised as engine blades for GE/CFM/RR are both a civilian and military priority. I don't believe that Russia has the stranglehold on titanium that they used to.

What the west does have a stranglehold on is aviation spares and avionics that actually work.

Titanium Statistics and Information | U.S. Geological Survey

Statistics and information on the worldwide supply of, demand for, and flow of the mineral commodity titanium

www.usgs.gov

 

[drron]

Neon is also a problem for the US Ukraine supplies the US with 90% of it's semiconductor grade of neon.

Ukraine supplies 90% of U.S. semiconductor-grade neon (and what it means to chip supply chain)

Ukraine supplies more than 90% of the US’s semiconductor-grade neon, a gas integral to the lasers used in the chip-making process,. Now what?

venturebeat.com

 

[NM]

General commends about the war and not related to travel will be moved

I don't get this….Why ?
Can you please define this moderation in a manner that folks might understand?
The topic says Ukraine situation and I suggest that discussing the Russian Invasion is the essence of the Ukraine travel situation.
The Ukraine situation has affected travel because the Russians have invaded a functioning democracy .
Are you wanting a new topic for every single noun describing something that is not absolutely word specific to the thread title ?

THIS TREAD is about how the situation in Ukraine may affect travel. Any other discussion about the situation in Ukraine may be relevant to other threads. But if it is not related to travel then its not for this thread. Non-travel related (off-topic) discussions can and do exist in other AFF forums. This is not in any way intended to restrict comment on the general situation in Ukraine, Just trying to keep this thread to its original topic so we don't lose the view of how it is affecting travel.

I have established a thread for general discussion (non-travel related) on this topic.

Discussion on Ukraine situation 2022

So Kremlin killer started real war, again. Most important question to answer here - who is responsible for this? Fact: Russia has confidently turned from a country that once defeated fascism into a country of ruling fascism. It's hard to believe, but in 2022 one of the biggest nations on Earth...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[jrfsp]

Insurance Companies Withdraw Coverage From Airlines Flying Through Ukraine Airspace Over 'Imminent' Invasion Threat

Leading aviation insurance companies have told airlines to cease all flights through Ukrainian airspace over fears that Russia plans to “imminently” invade Ukraine. The news was first revealed by Ukrainian low-cost airline SkyUp which confirmed that its fleet of leased aircraft was now being...

www.paddleyourownkanoo.com