How will Ukraine Situation affect travel

[jrfsp]

Interestingly BA has stopped routing SIN and BKK flights through Russia, now on a southerly routing through the middle east

 

[NM]

Interestingly BA has stopped routing SIN and BKK flights through Russia, now on a southerly routing through the middle east

Given that UK Government has stated that no Russian aircraft can over-fly UK air space, its fair to assume the opposite also applies. So I think we expect to see very few EU, UA and even AU airlines overflying Russian air space now. As others have noted, the available Asia-Europe paths will get a little crowded, no doubt.

 

[Scarlett]

QF1 has just completed a trip through Russian airspace.

 

[justinbrett]

UK has banned russian airlines from its airspace, expecting EU and US will follow.

Its looking very unlikely QF will be able to continue overflying Russia

Two different things there - banning Russian airlines from UK airspace doesn't mean UK airlines can't fly in Russian airspace - unless Russia retaliates; or the UK further bans UK airlines from flying in Russian airspace for safety reasons. Both of which are possible, but not necessarily inevitable.

 

[justinbrett]

Interestingly BA has stopped routing SIN and BKK flights through Russia, now on a southerly routing through the middle east

MH is also avoiding Russian airspace on KUL-LHR.

Though of all airlines, completely understandable why MH would not be keen to fly over Russian airspace at the moment.

 

[jrfsp]

From the ABC, stand by my point about QFs routing becoming untenable:

"Russia reserves the right to respond to Britain's ban on Aeroflot flights with similar measures, the state-owned TASS news agency has quoted Russia's aviation authority as saying.

Britain closed its airspace to Russian airlines, including Aeroflot.

Japan Airlines also cancelled its Thursday evening flight to Moscow, citing potential safety risks.

It comes as the European Union announces no members will be allowed to trade with Russia, as part of a raft of sanctions.

In an interesting development, Alaska's Anchorage Airport said airlines have started making inquiries about capacity in case routes over Russia are affected.

The airport was a popular refuelling hub for long-haul flights during the Cold War, when Western airlines were unable to access Russian airspace on routes from Europe to Asia.

Airspace in Ukraine, Moldova, parts of Belarus and in southern Russia near the Ukraine border was closed as a result, giving airlines a narrower range of routing options.

Emirates said it had made minor routing changes to Stockholm, Moscow, St Petersburg and some US flights that were hit by the airspace closings."

 

[dajop]

MH is also avoiding Russian airspace on KUL-LHR.

Though of all airlines, completely understandable why MH would not be keen to fly over Russian airspace at the moment.

Is that new though? From memory for quite some time MH has favoured routing over Iran to Russia.

 

[kelvedon]

If other countries join the UK in banning Russian planes in their airspace, and Russia reciprocates, which routes would be most effected?
How would JAL fly to Europe for instance ?

 

[I love to travel]

QF1 has just completed a trip through Russian airspace.

View attachment 271948

Well that is just irresponsible. People before profit please QF

 

[jrfsp]

Australian government has updated travel advice for countries in the region

"The government has also issued a ‘do not travel’ warning for Belarus and is urging Australians to reconsider their need to travel to Russia or Ukraine’s neighbouring countries, including Slovakia, Poland, Moldova, Hungary and Romania."

Could affect travel insurance with the change in advice.

 

[jase05]

QF1 has just completed a trip through Russian airspace.

View attachment 271948

Any idea how much extra distance in this route?

 

[Must...Fly!]

Well that is just irresponsible. People before profit please QF

Has there been any indication of a threat to civilian air traffic in Russian airspace outside the areas indicated as no fly FIRs by the Russian authorities?

Qantas (and all other decent airlines) pay a large sum to global consultancies who advise (independently of government) on the safety of particular countries and air routes. If the security situation in Russia deteriorates, Qantas will make the changes required. Until then, no one is putting profit before people.

Oh also, it's been a while since Qantas made a profit....

 

[Flashback]

Australian government has updated travel advice for countries in the region

"The government has also issued a ‘do not travel’ warning for Belarus and is urging Australians to reconsider their need to travel to Russia or Ukraine’s neighbouring countries, including Slovakia, Poland, Moldova, Hungary and Romania."

Could affect travel insurance with the change in advice.

I don't really care what the AU gov thinks, I'm still getting on that plane in a few days time. I don't foresee any issues.

 

[justinbrett]

Well that is just irresponsible. People before profit please QF

Sorry but that’s unjustified. There’s nothing to suggest there’s a threat to civilian aircraft away from the area of operations.

It may be politically undesirable but saying Qantas is putting its passengers in danger is uncalled for. At this point, with the evidence freely available. That may change.

 

[justinbrett]

Any idea how much extra distance in this route?

500NM great circle.

 

[dajop]

Any idea how much extra distance in this route?

If you look at some potential alternate routes the great circle is 8620 mi, current route (as per flight aware) is 8910mi, via IST is 8958 mi (+4%) via DXB/AMM is 9254mi (+7%). But of course distance is not the only factor, different routes face different conditions, right?

 

[Must...Fly!]

I don't really care what the AU gov thinks, I'm still getting on that plane in a few days time. I don't foresee any issues.

Some people have a different understanding of the situation, and of risk (and tolerances). Discussion with my father last night went as follows...

Dad: where are you going next week again?
Me: Turkey
Dad: how close is that to Ukraine and Russia, my geography isn't good...
Me: about 1,000km
Dad: that's a bit close isn't it?

 

[dajop]

Some people have a different understanding of the situation, and of risk (and tolerances). Discussion with my father last night went as follows...

I wonder though, are people concerned about risk to personal safety, or more about potential disruptions and headaches (i.e. uncertainty)?

I know if I were in UK, like Flashback, no hesitation in traveling to any of those countries that .gov.au suggests do not travel to (except Russia and Belarus). If I was coming all the way from Australia, might give a bit more thought to the decision.

 

[OATEK]

I wonder though, are people concerned about risk to personal safety, or more about potential disruptions and headaches (i.e. uncertainty)?

I know if I were in UK, like Flashback, no hesitation in traveling to any of those countries that .gov.au suggests do not travel to (except Russia and Belarus). If I was coming all the way from Australia, might give a bit more thought to the decision.

I am extrapolating that you think paying a lot more to go a long way, only to finish in a more dangerous environment has a different risk profile to travelling on a cheaper flight, a short distance and close to home base and ending up in a more dangerous environment.

Mrsoatek is not very excited at the prospect of flying on QF1 over Russia next week. I am more sanguine, but given the readiness of Putin to invade Ukraine, another MH17 can never be discounted. I don't believe he would give a fig, but I doubt he has any plans that would make it more likely to happen.

But at this stage we have to trust that QF is carefully considering the risks and alternatives, as after 2.5 years without a visit to daughter/granddaughter, we do not want to delay further.

 

[Scr77]

You won’t find me on a plane in Russia airspace.