Is loyalty dead?

[onemore]

I also remember the Coles cafeteria in Sydney as a boy, and think of it often, especially when lined up at one of those buffet things with the clatter of the dishes and the people taking forever on which piece of ham to have.

Hence the saying for us oldies "Just like a Coles cafeteria".

At least we know of what you're speaking ... when I mention Coles cafeteria, most looks tend to suggest the listener is likely thinking I've finally gone senile(r) ... who ever heard of Coles having a cafeteria, ol' farts, that's who (admittedly, I was just a boy when they ditched them and can only just remember them)!

 

[Deleted member]

Coles cafeteria is quite that ancient.
I remember a little over 30 years ago while Mrs H was in the Maternity ward with child ver 2.0 I took my first born to Coles every morning (for a few days) to have breakfast at Coles Cafeteria in TSV. she was most put out when the routine returned to normal.
I have to say even the Kmart cafeteria was reasonable when we lived in Darwin a few years later.

 

[Lukabs]

I don't believe so. In the current age of things you need to be a realist that a company will always put it's own profits before benefits. With this in mind, I am still loyal to the same set of companies and am constantly surprised with the extras that I get.

I believe people are too caught up in the "What will you give me" line of thinking. Loyalty does not have to require promised extra benefits. I go to the same cafe each day. I have no loyalty card for free coffee, I go for the familiarity. I buy my computers from the same manufacturer because I believe in that product for quality. I fly with the same airline as I believe in it for quality of service.

 

[melaus]

So many replies to such an easy question.

As I write, we are at late 2016.

Airline Frequent Flyer Status which was valuable, lets say 10 to 20 years back as a very rough average, means absolutely nothing now unless you are in the air nearly every day and have one of the "Really Beaut Cards"

The airlines just find this facility as a thorn in their side.

They simply do not want you in that room.

What they "Really" want is for you to dismount your horse in the horsepark, run to the "Silver Bird" as fast as you can, get in, sit down and "Shut Up"

Anyone who thinks loyalty exists as it did, is simply denying the obvious.

Guys & Gals.............It's a rough & tough business, only interested in b--s on seats and getting you to where you may be going.

So, get to your destination, process your arrival and if you're not in too much of a hurry, visit one of the fast food windows on your way to your transport.

The seat on which you may sit may not be as comfortable as the one you just left, but, the service you get at that little window will be delivered with more LOYALTY than what you may have expected from your trusted Airline to who you have given so much in the past.

 

[zoomzoom]

Loyalty to one airline is absolutely dead, there is some marginal benefit in favouring one airline alliance. QF has absolutely killed loyalty in Australia, and were one of the first airlines in the world to aggressively move down the track. SC and very expensive FF rewards. Whats the point????

Spend your money where you get the best value on the day!

 

[Awesom Andy]

Loyalty in the air still works fine for me. Over the years, whenever there is a major delay, QF always seems to be able to find a way to get me to the destination before my original schedule (although that also has to do with the routes I'm on). Loyalty really counts when something goes wrong, and I know that if I was flying on a different airline, they would just tell me to wait and be processed behind a whole bunch of others.

 

[andreas]

It used to be the other way around - back in the late 90s when I was working in Germany, Europcar wasn't yet as established a brand as Avis and Hertz, and they'd regularly offer much better cars for less money. Now that they've grown they've become complacent. Hertz still seems to value top-tier customers to some extent, not sure about the others - but I definitely agree Europcar has gone downhill and I don't use them anymore either.

 

[prozac]

I have been a Westpac (Bank of NSW) customer continuously since 1961. Apart from the odd dalliance I have always come home at night so to speak. 2 years ago Westpac closed my local business banking office and I was thrown into the stream to feed for myself. Without manager contact they are frustrating to deal with and even today are charging me interest on a long expired property loan. My foreign friend relocated to Sydney recently and even he gets a cheaper Westpac housing loan than I have.
Loyalty? I'm gone when I can reorganise my affairs.

 

[Mattg]

I believe people are too caught up in the "What will you give me" line of thinking. Loyalty does not have to require promised extra benefits. I go to the same cafe each day. I have no loyalty card for free coffee, I go for the familiarity. I buy my computers from the same manufacturer because I believe in that product for quality. I fly with the same airline as I believe in it for quality of service.

Interesting comment and I do agree with this point. I go to the same café most days, even though it doesn't offer any sort of loyalty card and other nearby cafes do. But I do it because the coffee and service there are both excellent. I once actually asked if they did have a loyalty card - just in case I was missing out on something - and the guy told me that "we don't do loyalty cards, we do face-to-face instead". I think he had a good point.

Having said that, I think it's important that if you are asking a customer to sign up to a loyalty program, there should be something in it for the customer. A good example of a loyalty scheme that fails in this regard is the Dan Murphy's program. I'm still not sure what the benefit of having a Dan Murphy's card is.

 

[coco50]

In one regard loyalty died in the 1980s when the banking system deregulated and banks no longer looked after their customers. Other big businesses followed suit. However, when punters such as us sign up to a loyalty scheme with a business, it is a case of caveat emptor - you have to do due diligence on the scheme and assess whether the scheme is going to provide you benefits in excess of your costs of belonging. As a QF frequent flyer I am satisfied with the scheme. I had accumulated more than a million points and cut them out last year with my wife and I flying around the world first class and the only costs were taxes and charges. I reckon I "bought" about $60 000 of airfares for about $5 000. I am sure that accumulating those points did not cost me $55 000 so I reckon I'm in front.

 

[coco50]

Glad you found something you liked.

Hope I'm not jinxing things, but I've been treated well in Hertz's program so am loyal to them and they haven't given me reason to look elsewhere. Generally the only reason I book with another is when there isn't a Hertz locale in the vicinity.

As another poster said, best to go with whatever makes you happy, loyalty program or not.

I've always found Hertz pretty good, but then, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's a bit like a system meltdown at an airport and people angrily claim: I'll never fly QF/JQ/VA/SCOOT/Tiger/AA/BA or whatever AGAIN. Ha Ha until next time!!!

 

[harvyk]

I'm finding this whole thread very interesting. We have a group of people, most of which get some sort of free food, drink and other perks every time they fly, some even get the first class treatment despite only being on an economy ticket, and all on a ticket which costs exactly the same as the pleb standing outside in the food court, complaining that loyalty is no longer there and that the airlines don't give a damn about you. The only difference is that you've flown a few more times than the pleb outside (or you've found a loophole). The exact cost of your tickets are identical.

Sure, the programs may have been more generous before, but lets not kid ourselves, the airlines very much so value your loyalty, that's the reason why they offer things like status, and that's the reason why they provide access to things like lounges.

I think a few people need to give up their loyalty program memberships for a while just to have a reality check on how the other half travel. In some respects we are the ones whom are getting the champagne service on a beer budget.

(I've picked on flying as that's what I know, however I'm sure the same could be applied across most loyalty programs)

 

[Steady]

I'm still not sure what the benefit of having a Dan Murphy's card is.

as am I - if you ever find out can you let us know :shock:

 

[Moopere]

Interesting comment and I do agree with this point. I go to the same café most days, even though it doesn't offer any sort of loyalty card and other nearby cafes do. But I do it because the coffee and service there are both excellent. I once actually asked if they did have a loyalty card - just in case I was missing out on something - and the guy told me that "we don't do loyalty cards, we do face-to-face instead". I think he had a good point.

I agree with this and display the same 'loyalty' to those businesses I use which are easily and identifiably providing me with something that I can't find elsewhere. Whether thats service, product, locality, or a combination of all. I'd ask the question though, what if there were two cafe's like the one you mention right next door to each other, providing, essentially, the same product, service, price etc? I mean, its virtually impossible for two businesses to actually be 100% the same, but say they were within a few percentiles of each other? Service was better at one, product better at the other (but both quite acceptable)?

This is how I view domestic travel with either QF or VA. They are almost the same, in essence. Yes there are some differences around the edges, but they are pretty minor. I'd strongly suggest that most non FF types in a double blind test would struggle to tell them apart.

But anyway, my point being that for me, even if I'm alone in viewing both these players as almost the same, how do I choose which company I will fly with on any given day? BFOD is pretty inviting and I've toyed with that, but, ultimately, its the 'loyalty' program that sways my judgement most of the time. In this respect then, the programs work ... in an otherwise line-ball game, they attempt to 'help' the consumer to make a choice in favour of that provider.

Having said that, I think it's important that if you are asking a customer to sign up to a loyalty program, there should be something in it for the customer. A good example of a loyalty scheme that fails in this regard is the Dan Murphy's program. I'm still not sure what the benefit of having a Dan Murphy's card is.

Yes, indeed. You've got to provide a reason for the customer to engage with you in this way. If you're not capable of this level of engagement then, as a business, you shouldn't do it. I've struck this any number of times with different businesses wanting me to join their program. I always ask - whats in it for me? You'd be surprised at how often the sales people choke and struggle with that, right away. These schemes are often dreamed up by the management/ownership simply as a way to build a mailing list, then almost completely forget the customer might have an expectation of something from their end.

 

[cherft]

I have long stopped flying with Qantas as I am p!ssed off at their lack of reciprocity of my 25-year loyalty to them.
i still earn points via my Visa card (don't pay any interest, just the annual fee) which I use for wine and tech toy purchases.

 

[andreas]

I'm finding this whole thread very interesting. We have a group of people, most of which get some sort of free food, drink and other perks every time they fly, some even get the first class treatment despite only being on an economy ticket, and all on a ticket which costs exactly the same as the pleb standing outside in the food court, complaining that loyalty is no longer there and that the airlines don't give a damn about you. The only difference is that you've flown a few more times than the pleb outside (or you've found a loophole). The exact cost of your tickets are identical.

Sure, the programs may have been more generous before, but lets not kid ourselves, the airlines very much so value your loyalty, that's the reason why they offer things like status, and that's the reason why they provide access to things like lounges.

I think a few people need to give up their loyalty program memberships for a while just to have a reality check on how the other half travel. In some respects we are the ones whom are getting the champagne service on a beer budget.

(I've picked on flying as that's what I know, however I'm sure the same could be applied across most loyalty programs)

This is actually true. It's just that those of us who've been around for longer remember that it used to be better, so we compare current state to previous state, not current state to nothing. There's no question that the degree of recognition and benefits has reduced across the board over the years. With airlines (particularly Qantas) it's the availability of F/J long-haul redemption opportunities, with credit cards it's watering down of insurance (for example), with hotels it's the inconsistency of standards (eg one Sofitel will let Platinum members use the Club lounge, another won't) and so on. None of this would make me say "I'm no longer going to be part of ANY loyalty programs" but it does mean you should become more opportunistic - use the benefits as soon as you can because the next change may dilute them once again.

 

[cherft]

This is actually true. It's just that those of us who've been around for longer remember that it used to be better, so we compare current state to previous state, not current state to nothing. There's no question that the degree of recognition and benefits has reduced across the board over the years. With airlines (particularly Qantas) it's the availability of F/J long-haul redemption opportunities, with credit cards it's watering down of insurance (for example), with hotels it's the inconsistency of standards (eg one Sofitel will let Platinum members use the Club lounge, another won't) and so on. None of this would make me say "I'm no longer going to be part of ANY loyalty programs" but it does mean you should become more opportunistic - use the benefits as soon as you can because the next change may dilute them once again.

Amen! .

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I go to the same cafe each day. I have no loyalty card for free coffee, I go for the familiarity.

I go to the same café most days, even though it doesn't offer any sort of loyalty card and other nearby cafes do. But I do it because the coffee and service there are both excellent.

I go to the same place for coffee each morning too, but that's because it's the only place ... and let's face it, I have never, ever come across a barista who even remotely resembles this guy! You wouldn't be dead for quids!



To those who might remember this pic form the "View from my office" thread, I'm sorry for posting the same pic up twice, but I think it's great!

 

[prozac]

I go to the same place for coffee each morning too, but that's because it's the only place ... and let's face it, I have never, ever come across a barista who even remotely resembles this guy! You wouldn't be dead for quids!

View attachment 79791

To those who might remember this pic form the "View from my office" thread, I'm sorry for posting the same pic up twice, but I think it's great!

Is that one of those producer experiences? You know like paddock to plate, only this gentleman grows and roasts the beans then serves them as well, kinda highlands-to-cup experience.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

We have a group of people, most of which get some sort of free food, drink and other perks every time they fly, some even get the first class treatment despite only being on an economy ticket, and all on a ticket which costs exactly the same as the pleb standing outside in the food court, complaining that loyalty is no longer there ... I think a few people need to give up their loyalty program memberships for a while just to have a reality check on how the other half travel.

This is actually true.

As I'm the whining OP, I assume I'm one of those "few people", so I will say that what you suggest is exactly what I'm doing. I fly JQ for heavens sake, so no freebies at all and I can say (as I've done before) that it stacks up on par with the so called full service brigade and I don't even get the lounge! I think I explained my Europcar beef pretty well and I have to say I don't think that what was written by harvyk is true. If a company says I am to get certain perks for being a frequent customer (that's a very valid business decision BTW) and then fail to deliver, I do have the right to complain, whether or not I've paid less or more than the so called "pleb" is irrelevant (and the truth is I pay considerable more). I'd actually suggest those few who are prepared to drops their daks for these recalcitrant companies who renege on their promises are entitled to do so, but they shouldn't berate those who actually speak up against the degradation of what's been promised.