Is Sydney Really This Bad? [Lockout Laws]

[mannej]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Security is definitely very effective, you'll find that the people causing trouble do get ejected quite quickly. The problem is when these drunks are on the street with a limited police presence.. This is where the majority of violent assaults occur.

It is very easy to wipe your hands of trouble makers in this method - throw them all out together and let them sort it out themselves...

 

[JohnK]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

The vast majority of patrons are responsible, I agree that irresponsible drunks are a problem but I don't think a blanket ban is the answer. It's hard to judge a person with a 10 second interaction in a dark, loud room unless they're totally intoxicated.

Security is definitely very effective, you'll find that the people causing trouble do get ejected quite quickly. The problem is when these drunks are on the street with a limited police presence.. This is where the majority of violent assaults occur.

As you can see this is no longer fun and games. It's now serious as people getting drunk are causing deaths. How did they get that drunk? At home? Not much you can do about it. In licensed premises? Your responsibility should be to determine if they are drunk not serve them in 10 seconds and be done with it.

No shouts after 10:00pm. No drinks for friends. No doubles. Single drinks only including beer.

That's not going to solve this issue but it's better than we have right now. Sure police presence would help but the resources there are limited. Maybe pubs/clubs/hotels can get together and hire their own private police to patrol the trouble areas. Maybe temporary detention if drunk and disorderly. Yes I know this can cause other issues.

I said it earlier in the thread. I am scared when I go out late in Brisbane City. Imagine what I'd be like in Fortitude Valley. I shouldn't have to fear for my safety. I have every right to go out and enjoy myself without encountered uncontrollable drunks.

 

[williamsf1]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

So anything that is potentially dangerous we should ban?

People who cannot handle their drink....


A new law should be introduced to bring in a drinking licence..... 17yr old HS students should be put thru a course to explain all about alcohol and the effects of it so they are ready to go at 18 ( well may be even start the lessons at 13 as most of them are on the sly grog!)


Once people have a licence, there could be a penalties for those who play up... for example


If you have a AVO against you for violence - Prohibited from drinking while AVO current

If you are convicted of DUI - a period of no alcohol

If you are violent on the drink - banned for life


95% of people would never have a issue

 

[Renato1]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Haven't read the link in the OP as it seems to be click bait.

From Wikipedia,

"Clickbait is a pejorative term describing web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks."

The article doesn't appear to be that to me.
Regards,
Renato

 

[anat0l]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Anyone here who doesn't support lockouts have a better idea?

Once someone actually comes up with a veritable, defensible and well-thought out better idea, then and only then do people who hope to save the vibrant nightlife actually have a chance of saving it from "blanket bans".

Here's something: education rarely works. We already have that in schools. I don't know removing it would make the problem worse, but the yardstick of success/failure still seems to judge the current situation as "failure", so by definition it doesn't work.


And remove that stupid defence in court, "They served me too much grog and that's why I acted the way I did; it isn't my fault." Unless someone was involuntarily fed alcohol (e.g. IV'd, forced to imbibe, spiked, etc.), any lawyer of a client who proposes that is a valid defence should be disbarred and shot.

 

[opusman]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Anyone here who doesn't support lockouts have a better idea?

A minimum price for alcohol, banning happy hours and "shots" would be a start.

It's the bogans that cause all the problems, if you make it harder for them maybe they'll stay home.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

A minimum price for alcohol, banning happy hours and "shots" would be a start.

It's the bogans that cause all the problems, if you make it harder for them maybe they'll stay home.

Define "bogans". Alcohol prices aren't exactly cheap as they are in the Sydney CBD as it is, especially in clubs. If bogans can afford those prices...... not to mention you never heard of "cashed up bogans"? Do mummy and daddy's little princes / princesses who were brought up with a silver spoon in their mouth and act like they're hot **** and get horribly out of control count in that group you mention, because they can damn well afford any of it... (note that this last example is supposed to be facetious)

 

[JohnK]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

A minimum price for alcohol, banning happy hours and "shots" would be a start.

It's the bogans that cause all the problems, if you make it harder for them maybe they'll stay home.

An RTD is ~$9 if not more at Brisbane Casino. They buy 2 and hold 2 at once. The number of just opened and hardly sipped RTDs left lying around is amazing.

They run around screaming like kids. That should be the first sign.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

The problem I see is having an idea and then taking it too far. Lockout? Yes, of course. When I was a roudy youngster we had curfews and to be honest that worked.....we knew it was time to go home and get some sleep (I'm talking 10, 12 and 3 staged closings). The cops used to have a chance at control (even it meant a bit of biff every now and again......we usually deserved it ) but now the cops can do little, even when faced with a tirade of exceptionally provoking abuse. Bring back the biff for the cops, and start it earlier in schools, oh yes it was called the cane.

Yes some police and some teachers were bullies (and worse) but the baby's definitely been turfed out with the bath water with the no smacking brigade. If someone stuffs up, let them face the music. Ban the civil rights extremists who'll argue black is blue in defence of a stoned thugs "rights" while the victims pay the price. Let the fun return to a night out but at the same time jump from a great height onto anti-social behaviour like drink spiking, glassing and drug fuelled violence (including rape and coward-punch cowboys). A night out is fun and should be fun. Why are the authorities now faced with these lock out ideas? Because the fun is being systematically destroyed by thuggery. Slug the thugs and let the fun return.

 

[trixydoza]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Much of JohnK's proposals are obviously incompatible with a stance such as:

I can have 16 beers and be as quiet as a church mouse and not bother anyone. Other people can have 2-3 drinks and go crazy. I am not saying I want to have 16 beers all the time but the option should be there to allow me to have a drink if I so wish.

If you force the bartenders to decide, they'll just err on the side of safety and conclude something like "What's this guy going on and on about Brisbane for in a thread about Sydney, he's obviously had too much to drink".

 

[JohnK]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Much of JohnK's proposals are obviously incompatible with a stance such as:



If you force the bartenders to decide, they'll just err on the side of safety and conclude something like "What's this guy going on and on about Brisbane for in a thread about Sydney, he's obviously had too much to drink".

Thanks for the plug. I work in Brisbane and live in Sydney. I have lived in Sydney since 1973. I am about to go to Sydney now. I will be going out tonight but driving. I'll be going out tomorrow night to Star City to watch them make a fool of themselves after having too much to drink.

I can handle my alcohol. I don't need to drink to excess every week.

 

[Milefest]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

An RTD is ~$9 if not more at Brisbane Casino. They buy 2 and hold 2 at once. The number of just opened and hardly sipped RTDs left lying around is amazing.

They run around screaming like kids. That should be the first sign.

And if lock out laws were to be introduced, the Treasury Casino would be exempt

 

[opusman]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Define "bogans".

To paraphrase Justice Stewart, I know them when I see them.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

I can handle my alcohol. I don't need to drink to excess every week.

Yes, one can see you don't live in Brisbane.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Yes, one can see you don't live in Brisbane.

Meaning? I work in Brisbane. Just passing through.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Meaning? I work in Brisbane. Just passing through.

Thought it was obvious.

 

[medhead]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

The headline looks like click bait to me. Check that bit of your definition about using sensationalist headlines to get clicks. Hence I don't click. Don't pass the headline test, the article becomes irrelevant. BTW I've seen this shared on a number of social media channels, that bit about encouraging forwarding.

Nice that you don't see it that way. But I do.

From Wikipedia,

"Clickbait is a pejorative term describing web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks."

The article doesn't appear to be that to me.
Regards,
Renato

 

[TheRealTMA]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

The headline looks like click bait to me. Check that bit of your definition about using sensationalist headlines to get clicks. Hence I don't click. Don't pass the headline test, the article becomes irrelevant. BTW I've seen this shared on a number of social media channels, that bit about encouraging forwarding.

Nice that you don't see it that way. But I do.

Um, like me, you did here!

 

[anat0l]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

Haven't read the link in the OP as it seems to be click bait.

The choice of title is probably influenced strongly in that it is an opinion piece, not a news article as such. Apart from the usual tactics taught these days to wrest people into having a peek.

An interesting title for a piece talking out against the lockout laws, or rather trying to show the dramatic (?) effects of sweeping, reductionist (supposed opined paraphrased adjectives) lockout laws as well as other related regulation.

 

[Solid]

Re: Is Sydney Really This Bad?

The idea that the city is dying because of lock out is ridiculous. The venues closing aren't moving with the times and are suffering accordingly - the rise of small bars in the city shows that. I live in Sydney, there are something like 22 licensed establishments within a 1k radius of my home. None of them is suffering.