JQ25 MEL - CNS warning....

[nlagalle]

The point about airline cancellations, though, if international, is that those affected often have an increase in their journey time of several hours to in the worst cases multiple days.

Irrelevant.. you still don't get it.. A cancelled plane affects a few hundred at most.. Happens daily around the world and no one reports it.. Unless it is something big - weather event etc, it won't rate a blip for a media group.

 

[Melburnian1]

Irrelevant.. you still don't get it.. A cancelled plane affects a few hundred at most.. Happens daily around the world and no one reports it.. Unless it is something big - weather event etc, it won't rate a blip for a media group.

That's incorrect. On one occasion in the last 12 or 18 months, SMH had an article about repeated QF long haul cancellations - a rare example. The journalist concerned had also written about deficiencies with trains and other forms of public transport.

You don't understand that recently there were repeated cancellations of QF long haul flights. Let's say there was a median number of 420 passengers booked on each A388 cancelled. A return cancellation therefore affects 840, five affects more than 4000. It soon mounts.

It's the mainstream media that 'don't get it', especially since with domestic air travel having so-called budget carriers whose patronage is drawn from (among others) those who used not to travel interstate at all, or drove or used trains or coaches.

International air travel has also become far more mass market given that the real cost of Y class (discount) airfares is a small percentage (compared to average wekly earnings) what it would have cost to fly overseas in the 1960s.

So if both are 'mass market', they ought appeal to these editors. No one's asking for every flight cancellation to be featured in mainstream media, but repeated ones...there's a case for newsworthiness.

Airlines' appeal to us is based on many factors but one is that we don't have to spend weeks on a ship to get to London, or 60 hours from Sydney to Perth by surface transport. If on a repeated basis they're not delivering...many are affected.

QF seems to be very newsworthy for editors. Look at its recent FF program changes. So if there are suddenly tens and tens of complaints about it or JQ on social media, an alert editor might get his or her staff to ask questions as to the reasons why. That's why we have a media: to probe, ideally without fear or favour, if they're correctly doing their job.

 

[nlagalle]

That's incorrect. On one occasion in the last 12 or 18 months, SMH had an article about repeated QF long haul cancellations - a rare example. The journalist concerned had also written about deficiencies with trains and other forms of public transport.

You don't understand that recently there were repeated cancellations of QF long haul flights. Let's say there was a median number of 420 passengers booked on each A388 cancelled. A return cancellation therefore affects 840, five affects more than 4000. It soon mounts.

It's the mainstream media that 'don't get it', especially since with domestic air travel having so-called budget carriers whose patronage is drawn from (among others) those who used not to travel interstate at all, or drove or used trains or coaches.

International air travel has also become far more mass market given that the real cost of Y class (discount) airfares is a small percentage (compared to average wekly earnings) what it would have cost to fly overseas in the 1960s.

So if both are 'mass market', they ought appeal to these editors. No one's asking for every flight cancellation to be featured in mainstream media, but repeated ones...there's a case for newsworthiness.

Airlines' appeal to us is based on many factors but one is that we don't have to spend weeks on a ship to get to London, or 60 hours from Sydney to Perth by surface transport. If on a repeated basis they're not delivering...many are affected.

No YOU don't get it. You don't understand the media (I do) and you don't understand what gets readers.. this doesn't. If there were multiple cancellations during a holiday period then you may see something about it. You are talking about a handful of flights.

Stories about cancelled flights have little bearing on the day to day lives of most.. you have a vested interested so have the rose coloured glasses on. A story like this would generate a few hundred clicks. An AFL story will have hundreds of thousands of clicks.

Once again, Editors know more about what the market wants to read than you do. Heck if its such big news, why doesn't the likes of AusBT write it up? because there is little interest in it.

 

[AdamR]

I do not know the situation in other states but at the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal, it has become necessary to serve an application on the other party, pushing up the cost to consumers who want to take that route.

To take action one would have to have standing. If not a booked passenger, one would lack that.

There are not many cases against airlines that one reads about, largely because as you imply, airlines with rare exceptions settle 'at the door of the Court (or Tribunal), as they neither want adverse publicity nor encouragement to others to take them on.

I gather they'll usually ask the plaintiff to sign a confidentiality clause.

Being private enterprise, they are not subject to FOI (called ROI in Queensland IIRC.)

Agreed, it is not a way to publicise things -- just to get redress for shoddy treatment.

 

[33kft]

I've got a retired relative who will only fly JQ, bless him, he tries to fly up and back in a day for family events to avoid paying for accommodation, HLO, packs himself a snack for the trip.

To say it has not gone well would be an understatement, he missed his brother's funeral and sister's birthday but it's still not enough to break the habit.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No YOU don't get it. You don't understand the media (I do) and you don't understand what gets readers.. this doesn't. If there were multiple cancellations during a holiday period then you may see something about it. You are talking about a handful of flights.

Stories about cancelled flights have little bearing on the day to day lives of most.. you have a vested interested so have the rose coloured glasses on. A story like this would generate a few hundred clicks. An AFL story will have hundreds of thousands of clicks.

Once again, Editors know more about what the market wants to read than you do. Heck if its such big news, why doesn't the likes of AusBT write it up? because there is little interest in it.

Media can make any story as sensational as they want. Or not. Big difference between news.com and The Age. What appeals to the readers of one might not be considered newsworthy to the other.

 

[plgreenfield]

In short, I had the perfect plan.... and it failed.

I’m a WP so booked the family on JQ25 as it leaves from MEL T2. QF First lounge here we come! Or so I thought.

Arrived at airport yesterday, 4am. Flight Cancelled.

Now have to walk down to the dreaded T4 to make arrangements. Best available was a rerouting via SYD. Dep MEL 9am, dep SYD 14:35.

First issue- can’t drop bags until 7am (2 hrs before flight) it’s now 4:30am and mrs and kids going feral. Cold and bleak. What am I to do for 2.5 hours?

Second issue- can’t check bags through to CNS. We need to collect in SYD and recheck them. But same issue again...bag drop not open until 12:35 and we are due to arrive at 10:30, so another 2 hours of standing around coming up. Surely this is an easy fix for JQ?

Thirdly- all the pre-seating we had done was gone... now in the last row.

Finally dropped bags at 7am and then made the dash back to T3 for some breakfast. After about 30mins, need to hightail it back to T4 to get through security and out to some gate seemingly closer to Essendon than Tulla.

Frustratingly as we are taxiing out I notice 2 other JQ 787s parked not being used. Surely JQ could have reallocated one of these to replace JQ25? They said it was an engineering issue but you never really know. You hear other stories about JQ cancelling flights based on loads.

I know others have taken JQ25 for the first class lounge experience on a domestic flight and the expectations were there, but when it doesn’t go to plan the impact is an experience less than optimal... a 4hr trip became 17hrs. And of course, no compensation or acknowledgement from JQ. Caveat Emptor!

We will definitely reconsider our future JQ needs...

I reconsidered my JQ needs a long time ago. As an old school airline industry soul I just won’t fly them anymore as they’re rubbish personified...

 

[Melburnian1]

Media can make any story as sensational as they want. Or not. Big difference between news.com and The Age. What appeals to the readers of one might not be considered newsworthy to the other.

Very good point, because 'The Australian' has an aviation page on Fridays.

It and 'AFR' would have many business frequent flyers reading one or both. To this group, systemic flight cancellations are an issue because it may mean lost earnings, productivity and time.

 

[Quickstatus]

Jetstar really is a useless airline.

I think so long as there is an understanding that JQ is a LCC airline and what you are buying should not be compared with its mainline big brother, JQ can work well

A 4 digit flight number could also indicate the flight was an extra service. Quite common around school holiday times especially to holiday destinations.

It depends. A four digit flight can be an extra or special service, or It can be a positioning or so-called ferry flight which typically does not carry passengers. It could also be a codeshare flight

JQ8xx_ flight numbers are ferry flights
Similarly QF6xx_ are ferry flights
QF8xx_ are codeshare Emirates flights

I remember an Antarctic special QF flight with a QF2xx_ flight number

 

[nlagalle]

Media can make any story as sensational as they want. Or not. Big difference between news.com and The Age. What appeals to the readers of one might not be considered newsworthy to the other.

And yet the Age isn’t writing stories about it either.. doesn’t that tell you something?

 

[nlagalle]

Very good point, because 'The Australian' has an aviation page on Fridays.

It and 'AFR' would have many business frequent flyers reading one or both. To this group, systemic flight cancellations are an issue because it may mean lost earnings, productivity and time.

And yet they don’t write a story about it.. you only have a “gut feel” these are systemic flight cancellations. No proof.. once again get out of your bubble world.

 

[Quickstatus]

After the last election, I don’t think the media really know their readers. That’s why people are turning to other sources because of the media’s inability to understand their readership or worse because of their arrogance in believing only they decide what is newsworthy.

In any case, there is a distinct lack of critical journalism in the travel section. Only when something bad happens eg the MAX , do we see articles and writing with a bit more substance

One delay might only affect several hundred. However because of high fleet utilisation, there is an inevitable domino effect and before long thousands are stranded.

One reason for the EU261 compensation regulation for certain delays and cancellations is that the Government is aware that significant numbers of travellers are inconvenienced and out of pocket by airline practices and are putting the liability back on the airlines.

Delays and cancellations coughulatively affect many thousands of people. That the media choose not to address this issue does not mean the media is correct.

 

[nlagalle]

After the last election, I don’t think the media really know their readers. That’s why people are turning to other sources because of the media’s inability to understand their readership or worse because of their arrogance in believing only they decide what is newsworthy.

Actually it was the polling companies that got it wrong.. it exposed they methodology for collecting voter FFA was flawed.

And I’ll draw back to what I first said. This isn’t newsworthy. Gut feeling on an apparent systematic cancellation of flights don’t make a story.

Given the limited resources all media organisations face these days they aren’t going to spend time on a story that’s going to be a dead end. As it is no one here can prove there is systematic cancellation of flights

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Actually it was the polling companies that got it wrong.. it exposed they methodology for collecting voter FFA was flawed.

And I’ll draw back to what I first said. This isn’t newsworthy. Gut feeling on an apparent systematic cancellation of flights don’t make a story.

Given the limited resources all media organisations face these days they aren’t going to spend time on a story that’s going to be a dead end. As it is no one here can prove there is systematic cancellation of flights

I don't think anyone suggested a story based purely on gut instint. Other than the late Ben Sandilands there don't seem to be (m)any aviation writers willing to take on the airlines.

 

[nlagalle]

I don't think anyone suggested a story based purely on gut instint. Other than the late Ben Sandilands there don't seem to be (m)any aviation writers willing to take on the airlines.

but the conjecture here is these cancellations are systematic. without an proof its merely a gut instinct isn't it?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

but the conjecture here is these cancellations are systematic. without an proof its merely a gut instinct isn't it?

No one has suggested that alone would be the basis for publishing a story. It would need evidence to establish the validity, or otherwise, of the claim.

 

[nlagalle]

No one has suggested that alone would be the basis for publishing a story. It would need evidence to establish the validity, or otherwise, of the claim.

Of which there is none.. All there is is observations and a belief. and until there is something concrete it's merely another cancellation.

"From several years of observations, I believe it is systematic. Can I be bothered 'joining the dots'? Nope. But I'd say it's newsworthy for the thousands of passengers each month who experience delayed and cancelled flights as a result - not just FFers. Have a look at the Qantas/jetstar facebook pages at the visitor posts. Plenty of upset pax there, but no avenue for them to take the mater forward. "

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Of which there is none.. All there is is observations and a belief. and until there is something concrete it's merely another cancellation.

"From several years of observations, I believe it is systematic. Can I be bothered 'joining the dots'? Nope. But I'd say it's newsworthy for the thousands of passengers each month who experience delayed and cancelled flights as a result - not just FFers. Have a look at the Qantas/jetstar facebook pages at the visitor posts. Plenty of upset pax there, but no avenue for them to take the mater forward. "

I’d argue ‘observations and a belief’ are not entirely unreasonable as a basis to take a closer look at something. The cancellations could be entirely random, but after a few years it sure does look like there’s a bit of a pattern.

 

[nlagalle]

I’d argue ‘observations and a belief’ are not entirely unreasonable as a basis to take a closer look at something. The cancellations could be entirely random, but after a few years it sure does look like there’s a bit of a pattern.

So what’s the pattern then?? No one has actually said what it is.. or is it just “the vibe”??

 

[p--and--t]

I have not referred to JQ by the name on the side of their planes for several years.

The entity is known as No-star in our house.