Lack of curtains separating Business and Economy on 737

[Vic]

It’s similar to the phrase ‘nothing works better than abc product’. So we should do nothing then.

Yes, well there is that... LOL
But that is a play on the imprecision in the english language where nothing could refer to an action or physical product. So it's a matter of interpretation of the phrase, rather that incorrect usage.

 

[jb747]

This refers to the USA, but as everything was copied from them anyway...

They were removed for security reasons after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The Transportation Security Administration ordered the change to make it easier for flight attendants and undercover federal air marshals to monitor passengers moving throughout aircraft.

 

[snooze]

This refers to the USA, but as everything was copied from them anyway...

If that is the case in Australia as well, don't the A330's shut their curtains for domestic and international flights?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If that is the case in Australia as well, don't the A330's shut their curtains for domestic and international flights?

My last QF A332 domestic didn't - but I think that was just the crew's service pattern. But other than the USA I don't know if any country applied the 'no curtain rule' - at least if they did, it didn't last very long (as in a few months or something). QF maintains and uses curtains on international flights.

 

[RICKDAN]

Does anyone know the reason Qantas decided to remove the curtains between Business and Economy on the 737 during the refit a few years ago?

To me it loses a lot of the exclusivity of being in Business and having economy passengers walk through the cabin to get to the toilet can become annoying, especially on the longer flights to DPS or to Darwin.

Off the top of my head, i cant think of any reason to get rid of it.

First world problems i know, i just wanted to know the reason behind it.

Cheers.

Totally agree, this is just a crazy idea, I flew to DPS return in Business and to be honest I would have been better off in an exit row over the wings, there was a constant stream of economy passengers clogging the aisle bumping my seat and getting in the way.

There is no exclusivity at all now, to be honest even Jetstar business is better and thats a big call.

 

[SRS65]

Hi all

Long time since my last comment - but felt it worth adding my thoughts:
Only in extreme circumstance should Y pax use J toilets - status pax in 4 and 5 should not take it for granted that they are entitled.
Want the privilege - pay or use points to be in J. With the cost for J which is hefty in Aust this is one of the "extras" that comes into play.
Don't misunderstand this as aloof - just ensuring QF value is met.

 

[JJJJJJJ]

I LOATHE the removal of the curtains... I'm paying $2200 from PER to BNE because I want a better flight experience. I don't want hoards of people traipsing through business class. I want to be able to use the loo within a reasonable time frame. When I travelled economy I NEVER used the J loo, c'mon people be fair, if you want business class services pay for it, just like I do.

 

[p--and--t]

One day, you too will be old. Let's hear from you then!

I am in some fear of being howled down....

• I'm old.
• I have "old man issues"
• I often travel Y
• I totally understand why someone paying $999 for a seat when I paid $99 would want some differentiation in service, some privacy and toilet availability.
• The seats closest to the Y toilets are almost never pre-booked and are nearly always available for someone that needs to go urgently/often.

 

[Daver6]

I LOATHE the removal of the curtains... I'm paying $2200 from PER to BNE because I want a better flight experience. I don't want hoards of people traipsing through business class. I want to be able to use the loo within a reasonable time frame. When I travelled economy I NEVER used the J loo, c'mon people be fair, if you want business class services pay for it, just like I do.

When they still had the curtains in place, people still went through the curtains to the J toilets.

I think what is going to make this situation even worse is the way the toilets are set-up on the 787. Y+ toilets are in the J cabin. You need to go through the curtains to get there. This is only going to create further confusion/entitlement on other aircraft.

 

[The Mole]

Does anyone know the reason Qantas decided to remove the curtains between Business and Economy on the 737 during the refit a few years ago?

To me it loses a lot of the exclusivity of being in Business and having economy passengers walk through the cabin to get to the toilet can become annoying, especially on the longer flights to DPS or to Darwin.

Off the top of my head, i cant think of any reason to get rid of it.

First world problems i know, i just wanted to know the reason behind it.

Cheers.

QF told crew the removal of the curtain was a 'weight saving' initiative.

Then they told crew it was because top tier FF's sat in row 4 did not like the claustrophobic curtain blocking their view of a TV screen (moot now with BYOD for Q Streaming and WiFi). CSM's have written and petitioned QF to issue a policy regarding the use of the forward toilet by YCL pax.

Their response? - put a placard on the divider "Business Class Passengers Only Beyond This Point" - (you have to look for it!) - everyone ignores it.

But still no directive - "manage it on the day" was the company's reply which breeds inconsistency and frustration.

Next an email to the CSM's about 4 months ago saying they are "engaging with the stakeholders to resolve this issue" - stakeholders meaning FFPL and FFCL etc. who sit in row 4. Take pity on CSM's who are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Complaints are received by crew continuously from JCL pax and even from FF's in YCL questioning the crew as to why they 'allow' YCL pax to use the forward toilet. The best compromise seems to be not allowing YCL pax to queue in the JCL cabin and allowing JCL pax priority use of the toilet.

The only way this will change is by customers writing in - no end of emails from crew, citing service or security issues is going to resolve this.

 

[Ausbt]

From the key vantage point of either 3C or 3D on almost a triple digit number of VA 737 flights (along with a few in J), I can confidently say that I have never seen the rope NOT being used

About the same for me Pleb (although 3A & 3F thanks) and yes that rope is always used. I haven't flown Q for years so haven't seen the revised 737 fitout, but I think even VA's now-dated dom J holds up well on the privacy angle, if not the comfort. The purple plastic divider might look gauche, however it is effective. Bring on VA dom J series 2!

Another fun fact: on circa 100+ VA east-coast triangle flights, I can't ever recall actually going to the toilet myself. Given the rate I'm prone to slam a few reds in the lounge, that's very surprising. Years back I managed a SYD-BKK with no toilet break. This needs a thread I think

 

[JohnK]

Hi all

Long time since my last comment - but felt it worth adding my thoughts:
Only in extreme circumstance should Y pax use J toilets - status pax in 4 and 5 should not take it for granted that they are entitled.

What about non-status passengers in row 4 and row 5 are they are ok? You'll find in general that it could be any forward row using the front toilets.

P.S. @MEL_Traveller I prefer to walk down the back after the meal service to ask for another red wine and Coke Zero. Helps beat the boredom.

 

[Pushka]

What about non-status passengers in row 4 and row 5 are they are ok? You'll find in general that it could be any forward row using the front toilets.

P.S. @MEL_Traveller I prefer to walk down the back after the meal service to ask for another red wine and Coke Zero. Helps beat the boredom.

We will usually not know their status. It’s a bit like the Priority Boarding line, unless you are directly behind.

 

[FrustratedQP]

The only way this will change is by customers writing in - no end of emails from crew, citing service or security issues is going to resolve this.

After SWMBO had to regularly stare at the rear end of y pax waiting to use the front toilet, including meal times, on a trip to and from Sydney and Darwin I emailed Qantas some time ago seeking their policy on this very issue. I got the usual response. Nothing. I emailed them again and still nothing. I find it astounding that a company supplying a service won’t tell you exactly what that service consists of. A few weeks ago, Sydney to and from Queenstown same thing. Amongst other y pax, members of a Sydney football team both lining up to use front toilets and stretching in the j cabin aisle.

 

[marki]

Actually to come to think about .... the Melbourne to Brisbane sectors have the worse business class in all of Qantas. It’s not worth the points or dollars in my opinion. I once asked for a refund and actually got a partial refund due to the appalling quality.

 

[tofidog]

And that’s understandable - which is exactly why a rope or curtain or electric fence needs to put in place!

But no doubt there are also plenty of row 4 scum (who should know better) that choose to abuse the system.

Can't say I like the use of the word "scum". I've had the misfortune of sitting in J with passengers who could are less than well behaved about things far more notable than a few Y passengers using the J lavatories. There are people whether Y or J who have no manners or consideration.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

Having just flown SYD-MEL in 737 J, I must admit I had no issue without the curtains; no Y pax used the J toilet and as I’m facing forward I had no exposure to Y whatsoever.

It seems the front rows in Y were well behaved and perhaps had status and hence knew the ropes so this certainly helps. If you had flyers with no regard for J then it would be an issue.

 

[tgh]

another data point ..
bne>adl ret last few days, no curtain and no y intrusions at all.

 

[Quickstatus]

I dont see what the issue is because I don't recall the airline marketing a domestic J cabin as exclusive and private.
The price of a J seat is the price of a J seat. What privileges people want to attribute to that is their business but privacy and exclusivity of cabin and toilet is as official as a shadow. Im pretty sure the toilet at the front does not say J passengers only.

 

[Pushka]

I dont see what the issue is because I don't recall the airline marketing a domestic J cabin as exclusive and private.
The price of a J seat is the price of a J seat. What privileges people want to attribute to that is their business but privacy and exclusivity of cabin and toilet is as official as a shadow. Im pretty sure the toilet at the front does not say J passengers only.

The blurb with the safety speech does though.