Losing QFF points and calling in the media

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Slightly off topic, my QFF account had an entry in March "expired points" in the points summary. No points deducted as it shouldn't be as I have 2 credit cards and Qudos Bank FF points go in every month. Never had an "expired points" entry in my QFF account, very strange
 
I suspect the Woolies change did catch a lot of people out, thinking they had been accumulating points and keeping them active. Had a bit of a laugh at the 9700 points being wiped. Can’t even buy a toaster for that.

Would they not have noticed that they were getting $10 off their bills when buying groceries instead every now and again?

What do people think about the comment 'QF should have called or SMS to let me know that my points were going to expire'?
 
Would they not have noticed that they were getting $10 off their bills when buying groceries instead every now and again?

What do people think about the comment 'QF should have called or SMS to let me know that my points were going to expire'?
There should be some way for people who don't have/use email to get such a notice.

The existing email notices aren't good enough. Instead of burying the notice in the bottom of an email, they should add a "points expiring soon" message within the email title.
 
What do people think about the comment 'QF should have called or SMS to let me know that my points were going to expire'?
Very easy for emails to disappear.

Qantas should do everything in their power so those points don't expire.
 
Would they not have noticed that they were getting $10 off their bills when buying groceries instead every now and again?

What do people think about the comment 'QF should have called or SMS to let me know that my points were going to expire'?
I don’t know. When I purchased at Wow a couple of times - not my usual shopping place, there were no points or whatever they called them, in quite a sizable trolley.

I’ve never received an email for this obviously but sometimes the subject matter they use doesn’t really alert much to the content of the email.
 
I don’t know. When I purchased at Wow a couple of times - not my usual shopping place, there were no points or whatever they called them, in quite a sizable trolley.
When the program first started, it was earn Qantas points - 1 point per $ above $30. If QFF account not linked, the customer would earn 'points' in the background and get Woolworths gift cards mailed to them every so often. There were also extra specials on selected products that either gave more points or an extra saving for rewards members only.

When the contract with Qantas ended, the program was changed to introduce "woolworths dollars" where W$ were earned only on selected products with no points from anything else. That change did not go over well and it took them almost a year to "fix" it before changing to the current version and a new contract with Qantas.

The current program earns 1 Woolworths point on every $ spent, with random bonus offers, and every 2000 points becomes W$10. This W$10 can then be used to get a $10 discount on the next shop (default), save the discounts until mid December and Christmas shopping, or convert to Qantas points every 3 months at W$10 - 870 QF points.
 
Very easy for emails to disappear.

Qantas should do everything in their power so those points don't expire.

Oh John John John... I'll assume you're not being sarcastic there and remind you that anyone who thinks FF schemes are for the customer are sadly misguided.

In no way is it in QF's interestto "do everything in their power" to stop points expiring. Its in their interest if the points DO expire.

Having said tht, and I point out that your endless arguments as to why points should never expire are not on topic for this thread IMHO, I will say this as I did months ago:

People whining that they did not read notification emails or notes on web pages or whatever.. I'm sorry IMHO they have little to stand on. The original "cancer couple" clearly admitted they GOT the notification but did not read it until later.

While I sympathise to some extent with people dealing with a serious chronic disease such as cancer (I know, because I do) that one's priorities are elsewhere, by admitting they got the notification but did not read it is *NOT* QF's fault is it?

QF can, and would, argue they took all reasonable steps to inform the member their points would expire. The members admitted getting the notification. QF can't control when they are read, but neither is it their responsibility having fufilled their part of the bargain in sending the notification - and it was recieved - as the original people admitted this.

What on earth do some people expect QF to do (as expressed earlier in this thread)? Make calls to every member who might lose points? Not only would that be time consuming and expensive.. even if you did it 90 days prior, people would still forget, or not care, or do nothing.. or they would complain it's to early.. but if QF told them a week prior they'd say there's not enough time... etc

my point being there's ALWAYS going to be excuses, or people complaining because they're not spoon fed.

Most of us, even the less frequent travellers out there (such as members of my own family) are aware of points expiry or other things like this.

This isn't high school where you're spoon fed and coddled and reminded every other minute to do X, Y and Z. There' such a thing as taking responsibility to manage your own affairs... and OK, so they did not read the notification in time and that's unfortunate but don't jump up and down and blame other people(ie QF) for it.... Accept that OK we dropped the ball on that.. and then take the bloody challenge offered as a reasonable compromise for their fail in not reading the notification in time.

It frustrates me in society these days that some people's first reaction is to blame others.

I've lived with a chronic illness for 20+ years and managed all my affairs pretty well and when I've screwed up and missed something I put my hand up and yup, mea culpa and deal with it...

sorry I find this a bit frustrating as is obvious :) Apologies to anyone offended or who thinks I am being too harsh. There are always reasonable exceptions and individual cases.. my poiint is more general even if I do specifically relate to the original people involved in tis thrad, because they pretty much gave up any defence they had the minute they admitted to getting the notification from QFF. In my view anyway.
 
There should be some way for people who don't have/use email to get such a notice.

The existing email notices aren't good enough. Instead of burying the notice in the bottom of an email, they should add a "points expiring soon" message within the email title.

I’ll have to dig the post out, but QF have changed their notices to be much more prominent compared to previous.

*Edit - Post 4 of this thread...

I have stolen this off Facebook (I believe that he is a member on here), but this is the email you refer to. Whilst I believe it is new, it is hardly inadequate.
 
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Slightly off topic, my QFF account had an entry in March "expired points" in the points summary. No points deducted as it shouldn't be as I have 2 credit cards and Qudos Bank FF points go in every month. Never had an "expired points" entry in my QFF account, very strange

I had the same thing happen also, no points gone but the expired points line.
 
Oh John John John... I'll assume you're not being sarcastic there and remind you that anyone who thinks FF schemes are for the customer are sadly misguided.

In no way is it in QF's interestto "do everything in their power" to stop points expiring. Its in their interest if the points DO expire.
No sarcasm at all. Just good business practice of not trying to profit from screwing people around.

Firstly loyalty points shouldn't expire. Wrong. Totally wrong.

Secondly if they do expire then notify the member to avoid any issues. A simple phone call goes a long way.

QF call centre : "Hello Mr JohnK. I'm from Qantas and would like to discuss your 1.2 million points balance. We have noticed you have not had any activity in 17 months. Is everything ok? Your points are about to expire. Thanks for your time."

Not that difficult.
 
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QF call centre : "Hello Mr JohnK. I'm from Qantas and would like to discuss your 1.2 million points balance. We have noticed you have not had any activity in 17 months. Is everything ok? Your points are about to expire. Thanks for your time."

Not that difficult.

Depends how many of those phone calls you need to make!
 
No sarcasm at all. Just good business practice of not trying to profit from screwing people around.

Firstly loyalty points shouldn't expire. Wrong. Totally wrong.

Your opinion.

You're stating your opinon has fact.

Various accountants, among others, would disagree with your comment that loyalty points shouldn't expire.

There are varying points of view. I accept you have one, but it's not appropriate to make a blanket statement of fact based on an opinon.

Some would say "Good business practice" is to manage your loyalty schemes to turn a profit. That's business 101.

See what I mean about opinions?

And "profiting" from "screwing people around" is vey emotive. most if not a very high percentage of punters manage such things very well without too much trouble. Are they still being "screwed around"?

Hey, if points never expired I'd be quite happy. As a pure selfish customer I totally get it and it would be great. I think I had 250 points sitting in Prioerity Club(what is now IHG) for well over 10 years because they never expired (now they do). I could have cared less about those points as they were minimal, but it was kind of nice to see them there.

It's not good business though because, as someone else noted earlier, it adds neverending liability for the provider. As a customer that's not my "problem" of course, but I also live in the real world and understand totally why they are doing it.

Who knows maybe fair trading etc will do a 3 year thing like with gift cards (in NSW, at least). I suspect 3 years would not make you happy though.

Secondly if they do expire then notify the member to avoid any issues. A simple phone call goes a long way.

QF call centre : "Hello Mr JohnK. I'm from Qantas and would like to discuss your 1.2 million points balance. We have noticed you have not had any activity in 17 months. Is everything ok? Your points are about to expire. Thanks for your time."

Not that difficult.

How realistic are you being? We've covered all this ground before.

QF boasts it has over 10million members. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that 4 million of those are active enough to fly or earn points at some point, the rest are dormant accounts (It's probably closer to 7-8 mil with all the things like bamk credit cards, woolies deals and the likes, with literally millions of accounts with very minor balances, but I digress).

So let's assume 2 million. Of those 2 million, let's say in any one year 5% of those accounts become inactive and have points expire.
That's 100,000.

Further, let's assume it's an equal number over the year, as in the same every month, which seems reasonable...

So you're looking at 8,333 accounts per month.

And I am being, I think, prertty conservative with those numbers. I have no real world data to know - I could be way off - but either way I think it's safe to say it would be thousands of accounts every month.

So you want QF to call thousands of people every month, a great number of them who would not care (if they cared that much they would keep their accounts open via aforementioned bank tie ins, woolies etc).

Again this is hand holding and spoon feeding, and a very COSTLY exercise in time and resources to call all these people to say hey your points are going to expire.

QF notify people via email. Again I refer you to the original story - they clearly said they got the notification, understood it, but did not read it in time.

How is QF failing in their duty? They are notifying their customers via the usual channel of communication (email).

How is QF doing this "screwing the customer around"?

I could accept an arggument about never getting the notification or even that the notifications are not that clear (this has been noted over time, and QF have addressed this). Other airlines are far more transparent (eg I know exactly when my UA miles expire as it's shown on my account summary page).. and QF used to print this on their paper statements(remember those? :) ) and sure, they could be more transparent in this department..

.. but I will argue that they DO notify customers.

You're expecting them to hold people's hands with calls and reminders up the wazoo.

and guess what.. the call centres are already stretched to the max with unacceptable wait times and yet you want them to spend time calling v customers? Simple maybe in concept.. unreaalistic in practice.

It's a great idea when talking about one customer in isiolation, but in a program of over 10 million members? Just not reasonable to expect that.
 
No sarcasm at all. Just good business practice of not trying to profit from screwing people around.

Firstly loyalty points shouldn't expire. Wrong. Totally wrong.

Secondly if they do expire then notify the member to avoid any issues. A simple phone call goes a long way.

QF call centre : "Hello Mr JohnK. I'm from Qantas and would like to discuss your 1.2 million points balance. We have noticed you have not had any activity in 17 months. Is everything ok? Your points are about to expire. Thanks for your time."

Not that difficult.
As long as you don't mind the cost of those phone calls being incorporated into your fare increases.

With 10 million members even if 10% are dormant, that is an awful lot of phone calls.
 
If QF scrapped the 18-month expiry so that points never expire then their liability increases greatly. You could easily see:

a) Minimum points guarantee drop from 800
b) Reduced earning rates in general
c) Increase in burn rates

Any or all of the above quite possibly. The expiry is built into the business model.
 
The comments on that news.com.au article has people in both camps. From People arguing that you should know the terms of program you joined to calling it theft of points.

IM not sure where i sit. I have heaps of activity through Credit card, woolworths, Red PLannet and travel earn.

But to GoldCanyon340's point though. We have seen all those things anyway. Im not sure the exact timing of 18 month rule to when those things occurred but they have all happened.
Minimum earn used to be 1K, earn rate was changed a few years ago, burn rates changed around the same time too.
 
I don't have those numbers in front of me but it is quite obvious that Qantas is not very proactive with lots of things.

Sorry I don't want to make this into something that probably appears personal when I'm not trying to be but...

WHAT?

how does QF not making calls to people personally make it "quite obvious" that they are not "very proactive"?

They put notifications in email. That's contact.

It's proactive in a way because it's prior to the points expiring.

And again I say it's in QF's interest $$ wise if the points expire as it reduces their liability so sure, they're doing the bare minimum, but they're doing it.
 
As long as you don't mind the cost of those phone calls being incorporated into your fare increases.

With 10 million members even if 10% are dormant, that is an awful lot of phone calls.

If QF scrapped the 18-month expiry so that points never expire then their liability increases greatly. You could easily see:

a) Minimum points guarantee drop from 800
b) Reduced earning rates in general
c) Increase in burn rates

Any or all of the above quite possibly. The expiry is built into the business model.

Exactly. Asking Qantas to give unlimited points lifetime and leave everything else unchanged is basically just like asking for free money. Same as hoping awards fuel fines would simply be abolished without any compensating changes.
 
Exactly. Asking Qantas to give unlimited points lifetime and leave everything else unchanged is basically just like asking for free money. Same as hoping awards fuel fines would simply be abolished without any compensating changes.
Why is it like asking for free money? Because Qantas has built in points breakage into their model? Points do have a value. Qantas is making money out of selling points but then not meeting their obligations by providing something in exchange for those points.

Note gift vouchers used to have short expiry which has recently been increased to 3 years. Have gift vouchers gone up in price?

If enough people make enough noise about points expiry then it may change.
 
Count your blessings; when QFF first began, points unused in the "year" after they were earned would expire, no matter what.

So the absolute limit of a point's "life" was 24 months.
 
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