Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes in Ukraine

[Princess Fiona]

I saw this on the news - someone with a handful of mixed passports. Seemed odd - a) I've never handed over my passport to any crew on a plane - b) why would they appear completely undamaged?
What a tragedy - just hope they never knew what hit them

There are several videos available that show many parts of the wreckage not damaged by fire.
Sadly I suspect that the footage of the passports is such because they have been collected from various parts of the crash scene by bystanders.
The task for the forensic team will be enormous as based on the footage available it was a free for all in there with many things moved around and perhaps even removed from the scene.

 

[boomy]

It does appear it was unintentional. Those shooting it down seemed surprised a commercial airliner would fly overhead. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be held accountable. All parties who may have contributed to this should be held accountable.

As with many disasters, there is usually a chain of events.

Yes, I think we can all agree on that.

 

[casanovawa]

While the crash scene will be messed around with, i think we can probably nail down the causes and hopefully even the perpetrators of the act without needing every last piece, the black boxes probably won't even be that critical as i imagine they just stop suddenly as i doubt it was anything plane related...

Hopefully some intelligence agencies have transcripts, can locate heat signatures etc... I can't see why the Ukrainians would shoot it down as it was coming from friendly Europe and flew all over Ukraine before being downed.. If its left to a choice between the Ukrainians shot it down to make the russkies/separatists look bad or some local pro russian muppet not knowing what they meant to bring down I think I know which one I'll go with, espeically if the evidence is attempted to be destroyed or lost by the locals...

 

[medhead]

Just checked my work email. 2 people on this plane that prompted all staff emails. The HIV/aids professor and someone who would be well known to our "owners" but not from the same branch.


.
Sorry to be cryptic, people who know me will (hopefully) understand, but we have a social media policy that says I'm not allowed to advertise where I work.

 

[drron]

Yes medhead one of the fellows interviewed from Australia does work in your neck of the woods and is a contemporary of mine.Understand only too well.

 

[Julesmac]

Well here's another question then - if they gathered up all the passports - removing them from the bodies, how the heck would they be able to subsequently i.d. the bodies?

And despite every soul on board being equally valuable, so to speak, what a crazy waste that some were coming to Melbourne for an AIDS conference. Working to help solve that terrible disease.

 

[medhead]

Well here's another question then - if they gathered up all the passports - removing them from the bodies, how the heck would they be able to subsequently i.d. the bodies?

And despite every soul on board being equally valuable, so to speak, what a crazy waste that some were coming to Melbourne for an AIDS conference. Working to help solve that terrible disease.

My brother in law said that a cure for aids was probably on that plane.

 

[casanovawa]

They could take pictures and get the relatives to id or retrieve the passports, DNA, who knows...

I'm sure the people on the scene probably are a bit clueless and will be told to hand everything back, maybe they will and maybe they won't...

Last thing you would need is the conspiracy nuts coming out of the woodwork over how come one person just happened to have all these passports and that doesn't usually happen etc, etc... I'm sure you will get one or two though...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well here's another question then - if they gathered up all the passports - removing them from the bodies, how the heck would they be able to subsequently i.d. the bodies?

And despite every soul on board being equally valuable, so to speak, what a crazy waste that some were coming to Melbourne for an AIDS conference. Working to help solve that terrible disease.

i daresay many passengers don't carry their passports on their body anyway during flight... first and business class passengers will be in PJs for example.

Identification can be done via several methods, including dental records. A physical identification document of course makes it easier, but by no means essential.

 

[JessicaTam]

I have 4 x MH flights in a few weeks time. I'm not for changing.

I was on the MH website looking at flights last night. I haven't seen any reason not to book them.

...
The Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet has ordered Australian flags to fly at half-mast tomorrow, both here and at our posts abroad. It is the equivalent of a national day of mourning.

Flags at half mast until next Friday in Victoria, to coincide with the AIDS conference.

My brother in law said that a cure for aids was probably on that plane.

That made me pause and reflect that the extent of the tragedy keeps deepening.

I discovered that a local (to where I work) business man was on the flight.

coughs.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm getting angry watching the Malaysian Airlines Vice President speak in Holland. He keeps saying 'other airlines were flying the route' and 'the route was declared safe'. Really? Did the rebels declare the route safe did they? Why was MH (and others) flying there when other airlines chose to avoid the area? I don't think there would be many passengers who would complain if the flight was slightly linger to avoid the area.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I was on the MH website looking at flights last night. I haven't seen any reason not to book them.

I think until we know why MH decided to fly the route they did, there is a good reason not to fly them.

 

[burmans]

I think until we know why MH decided to fly the route they did, there is a good reason not to fly them.

No problem with that logic as long as you apply it to the many others that flew the same of similar routes, will you boycott SQ as wel?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No problem with that logic as long as you apply it to the many others that flew the same of similar routes, will you boycott SQ as wel?

Indeed those questions need to be asked.

Courtesy of NYTimes/FlyerTalk the following list (for the last week):

airlines that continued to overfly Ukraine (prohibited areas excepted): BR KL LH MH TG SQ VS
airlines that did not fly over any part of Ukraine: AF BA CX [LX - now disputed]

At least a significant number of airlines didn't fly, so why justify your actions with those who did, rather than those who didn't?

 

[boomy]

I'm getting angry watching the Malaysian Airlines Vice President speak in Holland. He keeps saying 'other airlines were flying the route' and 'the route was declared safe'. Really? Did the rebels declare the route safe did they? Why was MH (and others) flying there when other airlines chose to avoid the area? I don't think there would be many passengers who would complain if the flight was slightly linger to avoid the area.

After MH370 disappeared many said now it's the safest time to fly MH because they will definitely pay extra attention to safety. Well... Did they really had to fly over the Ukraine or they chose to stick to that route despite the risks mainly to save fuel?

 

[anat0l]

I'm getting angry watching the Malaysian Airlines Vice President speak in Holland. He keeps saying 'other airlines were flying the route' and 'the route was declared safe'. Really? Did the rebels declare the route safe did they? Why was MH (and others) flying there when other airlines chose to avoid the area? I don't think there would be many passengers who would complain if the flight was slightly linger to avoid the area.

I think until we know why MH decided to fly the route they did, there is a good reason not to fly them.

The view of "safe" was only so far as the flight path chosen was not against any NOTAMs issued at the time.

I don't think you can ask the rebels if they will tell you it is safe. If there was strong advice to that effect, you wouldn't need to wager that an effective notice will be issued and the area would certainly be avoided, at all flight levels.

The irony is that the flight was diverging from its "normal" route in order to fly around weather (or at least that was what was said in the first instance).

I disagree with your conclusion as to why people should not fly MH. People will not fly MH purely from the shock value; very similar to any other airliner which has experienced a major incident, from Asiana to Pan Am. I would wager most will come back to fly them, MH370 put aside as a different beast...

I am flying MH next month; not that I am a MH die-hard (pun intended), but it so happens to be the most convenient for me - ironically, to save money (because another day just isn't suitable). If you wish to put a wager that I will end up in an aviation-charged coffin on 26 August 2014, I guess I can't stop you. Guess I better draft a will. I guess one upshot is that I will not be on another MH B777-200, but instead an A330-300....

 

[mannej]

After MH370 disappeared many said now it's the safest time to fly MH because they will definitely pay extra attention to safety. Well... Did they really had to fly over the Ukraine or they chose to stick to that route despite the risks mainly to save fuel?

But if you look at the numbers (300 flights a day according to ATC sources), that is a lot of overhead traffic, in fact it is roughly 8500 flights a month.

We could just as easily be talking about the SQ or AI flights here. So easy to look at the one flight in isolation.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I don't think you can ask the rebels if they will tell you it is safe.

The issue is, on what basis could the authorities deem the area 'safe' unless they'd had an assurance of such from all relevant parties? If you can't get such assurance, what other evidence are you working from? Just 'cause you 'think' it might/should/would be safe?

Other airlines clearly thought 'hang on', we will be cautious. Some didn't appear to share that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We could just as easily be talking about the SQ or AI flights here. So easy to look at the one flight in isolation.

But we couldn't be talking about CX, AF, BA, LX.

 

[JohnK]

Here it is ... Smartraveller: The Australian Government's travel advisory and consular assistance service | Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade

Thanks. I have come this far without their assistance. I think I can survive a little longer.