Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes in Ukraine

[alieninperth]

This is just my 2c but I can't help but feel that if that were my family who were murdered and are now being prevented from being repatriated I would be furious. I'm angry at the way all parties so far have failed to do anything about this. The facts currently at hand are that the plane was shot down, the site has not been secured, and that the lack of respect being given to the remains of the victims is appalling.

The fact that journos, including western agencies (I'm thinking about the ABC footage from last night and the UK's sky news in particular) are able to get so close to the wreckage and rifle through suitcases beggars belief. If I were feeling combative, I would suggest that by downing a flag carrier of a sovereign state is an act of war and should be treated as such. Securing the site needs to be done with the utmost urgency and all avenues, up to and including military need to be explored.

 

[UP4014]

This is just my 2c but I can't help but feel that if that were my family who were murdered and are now being prevented from being repatriated I would be furious. I'm angry at the way all parties so far have failed to do anything about this. The facts currently at hand are that the plane was shot down, the site has not been secured, and that the lack of respect being given to the remains of the victims is appalling.

The fact that journos, including western agencies (I'm thinking about the ABC footage from last night and the UK's sky news in particular) are able to get so close to the wreckage and rifle through suitcases beggars belief. If I were feeling combative, I would suggest that by downing a flag carrier of a sovereign state is an act of war and should be treated as such. Securing the site needs to be done with the utmost urgency and all avenues, up to and including military need to be explored.

Agree, if we were in the 1930's Malaysia would have declared war on the rebels and be there with the Ukraine army with the backing of it's allies. (ie Us, the Netherlands)

The fact they shot a civilian aircraft down means they will have little regard for the deceased or their belongings which shouldn't be a surprise to us.

Matt

 

[Princess Fiona]

I think there is a lot of very emotional and emotive reporting going on about the aftermath of MH17 particularly in regard to the handling of the remains of the deceased.
This article from The Australian gives a very poignant insight into the effect this has had on some of the people in the surrounding villages
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/in-de...ell-through-roof/story-fno88it0-1226995903459

 

[bass_ke]

I think there is a lot of very emotional and emotive reporting going on about the aftermath of MH17 particularly in regard to the handling of the remains of the deceased.
This article from The Australian gives a very poignant insight into the effect this has had on some of the people in the surrounding villages
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/in-de...ell-through-roof/story-fno88it0-1226995903459

That's a heartbreaking story. I don't know how one would deal with that. Stumbling upon a picture of a victim still strapped to their seat whilst looking for an update on the story
was enough for me....

 

[whatmeworry]

Latest Knight Cartoon.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Why did MH17 crash ? - missile shot

Where did the missile come from ? - East Ukraine combatants, currently suspected to be separatists rather than Kiev personnel.

Are they at war ? - A few Kiev military planes had been shot down lately by separatists.

Should a civilian airliner be 'fair game' in 2014 wars ? - Obviously, no.

So, RoE is not relevant ?

Is compensation a better topic for discussion then ?

Is retrospective 'expert' risk analysis a better choice ?

Talking of compensation there was a report the Government wants this event classified as a terrorist act to enable a higher level of compensation.



Would that be the case??

 

[burmans]

Talking of compensation there was a report the Government wants this event classified as a terrorist act to enable a higher level of compensation.



Would that be the case??

According to the report $75K per individual but I know little more than that.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

According to the report $75K per individual but I know little more than that.

I'm confused. Current compensation is automatic 113,000SDR per passenger, regardless of it being terrorist or not. That's around AUD185K

Over and above that MH is liable unless they can prove they were not at fault.

 

[oz_mark]

I'm confused. Current compensation is automatic 113,000SDR per passenger, regardless of it being terrorist or not. That's around AUD185K

Over and above that MH is liable unless they can prove they were not at fault.

Australian Victim of Terrorism Overseas Payment

 

[get me outta here]

The ABC radio is reporting that some of the victims credits card that were stolen from the crash site have had attempts to be used.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I'm confused. Current compensation is automatic 113,000SDR per passenger, regardless of it being terrorist or not. That's around AUD185K

Over and above that MH is liable unless they can prove they were not at fault.

What did they get for Lockerbie ?

 

[drron]

The ABC radio is reporting that some of the victims credits card that were stolen from the crash site have had attempts to be used.

Not sure if that is right.The same claim was made in Holland so the banks cancelled the CCs but the banks replied that they always cancel the CC if a person is known to be deceased not because of attempted use.

 

[serfty]

Not sure if that is right.The same claim was made in Holland so the banks cancelled the CCs but the banks replied that they always cancel the CC if a person is known to be deceased not because of attempted use.

That doesn't mean that some miscreant can't TRY to use one.

Any such attempt would be logged.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Australian Victim of Terrorism Overseas Payment

Ah, ok thanks.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I can't help but feel that if that were my family who were murdered and are now being prevented from being repatriated I would be furious.

We'd like to think that, but my father passed away in WA (we live in Qld). It took about a month and a half for his body to undergo all the ins and outs of repatriation to Qld.......and he passed away due to a heart attack, not a missile.

 

[drron]

That doesn't mean that some miscreant can't TRY to use one.

Any such attempt would be logged.

But the banks wouldn't release those details so would be very hard to prove.
They wont even tell me when and where my card has been compromised.
So I cant see how the journalist would know.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What did they get for Lockerbie ?

I don't know the details for the Lockerbie payout - I know the incident was prior to the Montreal Convention - when the limits were lower and the liability on the airline was different (pax had to prove willful neglect by the airline). Under Montreal there is no such requirement and it is the airline that must prove it has 0% responsibility... something which may be very difficult. A court will need to decide that.

 

[drron]

A look at today's news.cough Riot not unexpectently disagree with Putin-
Russian media is covering up Putin's complicity in the MH17 tragedy | Masha Alekhina | Comment is free | theguardian.com

The leader of the reb els gives a press conference where he lies-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AuZ1Ok3s_I&feature=youtu.be
You can get English subtitles on You tube.He says the rebels haven't found the black box and nothing has been moved despite video evidence on Russian sites clearly showing the opposite.

This BBC report has a video link showing this as well-
BBC News - MH17 air crash: Pro-Russia rebel video of crash aftermath
The Russian ones are too graphic.

A little about how the fellow implicated has viewed justice-
http://www.buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-rebel-justice-in-east-ukraine-was-bureaucrati

And alarmingly it looks like the Ukrainian government is trying to take over the crash site by force.this is only minutes old-
https://twitter.com/maxseddon

 

[UP4014]

And alarmingly it looks like the Ukrainian government is trying to take over the crash site by force.this is only minutes old-
https://twitter.com/maxseddon

I think they need to go for it, while the world is watching. It's could be only chance to get the victims back quickly. (well has been no chance and it's day 4)

Matt

 

[casanovawa]

I'd be more than happy to join any boycott of everything Russian if our government's can't or won't take action, although I know these thigns can backfire and hurt unintended targets so in some ways governments don't over react for a reason...

I wouldn't put anything past some of the russian mentalities in terms of using cc's (even though if you were looking at dispassionately the Ukrainian probably aren't the most loveable types either, these people have been living and mixing with each other for hundreds of years so their national temperaments would be pretty close i imagine...)

I still think any comepnsation should come from the Russians rather than us or Malaysians... If we have to pay it out now because at the moment the victims need and we can't get the Russians to pay up, I would be more than happy for all Govt's to reclaim money from any frozen Russian assets they can get their hands on....