Malaysian Airlines MH17 Crashes in Ukraine

[drron]

A sad story-

Schoolboy Muhriz Marzaidi, 10, has been struggling to understand why the plane with his air stewardess mother on board was shot from the skies over eastern Ukraine.
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And something for you JohnK-

When Muhriz woke up the next day for sahur, the daily predawn meal Muslims take before Ramadan fasting, he sensed that something was wrong.
“He stood up and said he had dreamt of his mum, all dressed in white, saying she would not be coming back,” said his 54-year-old uncle. “She told the boy that her time had come.”

Boy struggles to come to terms with air stewardess mother

 

[Jack_OC]

SWMBO just told me there was some Dutch guy who was booked on both mh370 and mh17 but cancelled at the last minute.

Yeah, I read that story, here's a link: Dutch cyclist Maarten de Jonge cheats death twice after changing flights from both Malaysia Airlines MH17 and MH370 - News - The Independent

It doesn't really add up if you ask me. Regarding MH17, he claims he "decided to swap flights at the last minute, after discovering that travelling via Frankfurt today [Sunday] would prove cheaper". Obviously you can't generally just change flights at the last minute without it costing a lot of money - especially when changing routing as well as dates. I guess he could have been originally booked on a fully refundable ticket, but the kind of person who pays significantly more for a fully refundable ticket isn't generally the kind of person who would then delay travel by 3 days and take a positioning flight, just to save some cash. I also note the main article doesn't actually say he was ever booked on either flight, it says he was "due to travel on flight MH17" and "planning to travel on flight MH370". My guess is he never actually booked either, he just claims to have thought about doing so. Perhaps I'm just too cynical though!

 

[juddles]

His purported story sounds like rubbish. But I did believe about the guy who was on both the major train disasters in Australia. Can´t remember his name, but I hope he has been barred from future travel!!.

 

[drron]

Well there is the story of the FA who swapped off MH370 only to swap to MH17.

 

[medhead]

Yeah, I read that story, here's a link: Dutch cyclist Maarten de Jonge cheats death twice after changing flights from both Malaysia Airlines MH17 and MH370 - News - The Independent

It doesn't really add up if you ask me. Regarding MH17, he claims he "decided to swap flights at the last minute, after discovering that travelling via Frankfurt today [Sunday] would prove cheaper". Obviously you can't generally just change flights at the last minute without it costing a lot of money - especially when changing routing as well as dates. I guess he could have been originally booked on a fully refundable ticket, but the kind of person who pays significantly more for a fully refundable ticket isn't generally the kind of person who would then delay travel by 3 days and take a positioning flight, just to save some cash. I also note the main article doesn't actually say he was ever booked on either flight, it says he was "due to travel on flight MH17" and "planning to travel on flight MH370". My guess is he never actually booked either, he just claims to have thought about doing so. Perhaps I'm just too cynical though!

He is a professional cyclist with a Malaysian team. Perhaps someone just books his travel for him. Not sure I'm bothered to check but they could be sponsored by MH. He might have stopped longer at home to be with family. MH370 was supposed to be used to get to the tour of taiwan, quick searching says that was in March. I can't remember if the dates match.

 

[Jack_OC]

He is a professional cyclist with a Malaysian team. Perhaps someone just books his travel for him. Not sure I'm bothered to check but they could be sponsored by MH. He might have stopped longer at home to be with family. MH370 was supposed to be used to get to the tour of taiwan, quick searching says that was in March. I can't remember if the dates match.

You're correct that it's plausible that he might have decided to stay longer with family, and if he had said that I would have been more inclined to believe his story. But that's not what he said - he specifically said he decided to change his flight at the last minute because the other option was cheaper. Anyway, not exactly the most important of the unanswered questions in this thread.

 

[opusman]

His purported story sounds like rubbish. But I did believe about the guy who was on both the major train disasters in Australia. Can´t remember his name, but I hope he has been barred from future travel!!.

Going off-topic here, but I think this beats both of those anecdotes.

 

[medhead]

You're correct that it's plausible that he might have decided to stay longer with family, and if he had said that I would have been more inclined to believe his story. But that's not what he said - he specifically said he decided to change his flight at the last minute because the other option was cheaper. Anyway, not exactly the most important of the unanswered questions in this thread.

I'm certainly not defending the guy. Just an interesting story. I've heard a similar one about a contractor who survived 9/11 because he had been in about 3 emergencies in tall buildings at various places around the world and just left at the first sign of trouble.

Going off-topic here, but I think this beats both of those anecdotes.

There is supposed to be a group of survivors who went to Nagasaki a week later to tell them about the horrors of the bomb. I love the BS last paragraph. I was surprised to learn at a conference a year or two back that something like 60% of the Japanese survivors are still alive. (Or perhaps only 60% have died). Roughly something like that.

 

[drron]

When in Japan about a year ago there was a report that anyone who survived the bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima for 30 days have had a longer life expectancy than non exposed Japanese alive at that time.The mayor of Hiroshima got into a lot of trouble for pointing that out.

 

[artemis]

When in Japan about a year ago there was a report that anyone who survived the bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima for 30 days have had a longer life expectancy than non exposed Japanese alive at that time.The mayor of Hiroshima got into a lot of trouble for pointing that out.

Hmmm interesting...! got a link?

 

[drron]

Back on topic.It appears that Mr.Putin has changed his tune in the last 24 hours as postulated here by the BBc's man on the spot-
BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Donetsk sees escalation of clashes

And this article possibly explains why-apparently many Russian oligarchs use Holland as a tax haven-
Dutch anger over MH17 crash aftermath could swing EU sanctions

 

[jb747]

Before communication was cut off.

I don't know what you think will be there. Comms in the cruise consists of little more than your callsign and altitude at each controller change, which is generally replied to with a simple acknowledgement of radar contact.

 

[jb747]

Just curious

Are civilian airliners capable of knowing it is being targeted (ground radar, homing radar from missiles)?

Alternatively, do they have radars scanning the surroundings to know 'something' is coming?

My 2c says no but I'd defer to more knowledge.

No. And you couldn't do anything about it even if you did.

 

[mannej]

Is this call for concern, or poor journalism fuelling on ignorance?

Malaysia Airlines plane diverts from Ukraine to Syria

 

[jb747]

Is this call for concern, or poor journalism fuelling on ignorance?

Malaysia Airlines plane diverts from Ukraine to Syria

Sounds like they used the old 'pipeline' route up into the Med. Odd choice right now.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Is this call for concern, or poor journalism fuelling on ignorance?

Malaysia Airlines plane diverts from Ukraine to Syria

Raised up-thread already. It is claimed MH was the only intercontinental flight to go over Syria that day. Again, they simply claim 'it was approved airspace'.

I was questioned a couple of days ago to name a reason not to choose MH. This seems a solid reason.

 

[straitman]

There is a system available. But it's expensive and only really used (in practical terms) for military aircraft. Plus I assume El Al.

This instrumentation is probably much cheaper than the cost of a high altitude SAM.

Is this relevant? Probably not because all it would achieve is to scare the pilots just before they died.

Where is the transcript between the control tower and the plane ?

Pretty rare for an aircraft to communicate after being hit by a SAM, it's not like the movies, thanks to explosive decompression usually taking out the souls on board in terms of their consciousness.

Before communication was cut off.

Even if communication was available there would be a "few" other issues distracting the pilots. Have a look at this link which states that useful consciousness would only be 30-60 seconds and an OAT of -54C. With explosive decompressions the consciousness time is actually lower than stated because of the shock factor.

Cabin Decompression and Hypoxia

The first part of the discussion refers to decompression training that jb747 and I have done (& possibly others) and it is a VERY eye opening experience. It then goes on to what I was mentioning above.

 

[Julesmac]

I hope this doesn't seem a grisly question. What would have actually happened to the poor souls on board - you mean that the decompression was so quick that unconsciousness or death would be instantaneous? I certainly hope for their sakes they would not know what hit them. A shocking shocking act

 

[dajop]

Raised up-thread already. It is claimed MH was the only intercontinental flight to go over Syria that day. Again, they simply claim 'it was approved airspace'.

I was questioned a couple of days ago to name a reason not to choose MH. This seems a solid reason.

Something missed in the commentary I think. Look at BA 106 and EK 1 DXB-LHR flight paths on flightaware.com. They both have been travelling over the NE corner of Syria in the last few days. Maybe MH went further than just the NE corner, which may be more risky - I don't know, but the linked article seems to be either factually incorrect, is missing specific details around riskier parts of Syria, or flightaware is just inaccurate.

 

[jb747]

I hope this doesn't seem a grisly question. What would have actually happened to the poor souls on board - you mean that the decompression was so quick that unconsciousness or death would be instantaneous? I certainly hope for their sakes they would not know what hit them. A shocking shocking act

I think that's a subject it's best not to delve too deeply into...