Nabbing spare goodies from premium cabins

[Austman]

And on another airline a few days earlier I also witnessed the crew collecting unused amenities from empty seats during the flight. These were slipper packs and basic mask/socks packs that had been placed at every seat.

So I doubt that they were tossed too.

But anything left at the end of the flight could be a different matter.

 

[Pushka]

And on another airline a few days earlier I also witnessed the crew collecting unused amenities from empty seats during the flight. These were slipper packs and basic mask/socks packs that had been placed at every seat.

So I doubt that they were tossed too.

But anything left at the end of the flight could be a different matter.

So it is up to the 'bussiness' of the FA's. If they clear before landing then they are likely reused. If left on seats - into the black bag they go. These days they seem to be handed out as people are seated.

 

[get me outta here]

I happened to hold up to the light the little containers of lip balm and moisturiser on my last flight. There was almost nothing in there. Felt short changed, and all that packaging for almost nothing.

After having Richard Gere in the seat in front of me in QF F last year leave his PJs behind on his seat, it did cross my mind for a second .... however, that would be too weird.

 

[Austman]

These days they seem to be handed out as people are seated.

A bit of a mixed bag on my 6 recent international flights (just days ago). A lot of stuff already at the seat. Some additional handed out.

That crew would collect some of it implies to me that it can have a value to the airline.

But at the end of of the flight, if the crew hasn't even bothered collecting it when they could have easily done so, could the left over consumables really be worth anything?

 

[Atleastonce]

prosecuting

Just goes to show why we have a legal profession. Nothing is black and white, and if you have been a prosecutor you would understand the legal arguments in voir dire. I have seen some interesting decisions after lengthy legal arguments, and not always my way, but hey, that's the legal system you win some you lose some. I no longer take offense to what people think and if they think they are right. That's why we have the legal system we have. I still think taking the amenity kits is stealing.

 

[marki]

As mentioned above, they are sealed.

Dos no matter still won't be used

While I doubt staff would care I think it would feel wrong to simply take without asking, seems to have more to do with an individuals moral compass as it's a bit of a grey area. I have asked if there where spare amenity kits and even PJ's for my Girlfriend and staff have been only too happy to provide if available, though I wouldn't even think of asking if they were not provided in my ticket cabin...

No no if you are higher up in the food chain ( gold up) it's ok to ask. Ask in such a way as if a no answer would not be uncomfortable. Sometimes u may be lucky and my mother taught me there is nothing wrong in asking!

Still think they would get tossed. Cleaning crew dont have the time to check.

That's what I said unless you hire an army of robots it'd out they go!!

There is only so much shaving foam one needs

Given Atleastonce's background I'd expect he'd have a pretty good idea about these things.

Like Ralph said circling around definitions good luck in court !

Which customer? Who said there was ever a passenger for that seat. All we know is that the plane flew with no-one in the seats concerned.

What we are witnessing here is a whole new branch of law - the rights of imaginary, 'potential' customers'.



Please don't leave us hanging ... what's the law in respect to imaginary, 'potential' passengers?

I love imaginary and potential customers, Qantas loves them in end of year reports to Stock markets!

It's not stealing if you plan to do the right thing with it, and of course as long as it's genuinely thrown away by the airline and not reused. I am in the process of actively accruing as many amenity kits as I can, both personally when seated in premium cabins and from like-minded colleagues:

Here is why, and I encourage all of you to get involved too:

https://www.facebook.com/elbh.co

I go as far now as even taking my own soap to hotels, in order to pocket the unused amenities.

Oh, and in terms of the way I feel about Y pax taking PE & J amenities if they want to, my feelings are go for it. It's the same way I feel about letting in so-called 'untitled' people into lounges or to share any other benefits that a lot DYKWIAs just take for granted. I'll share whatever I can and I'll guest as many as I can as much as I can.

Well done Ausbt good idea !

Self represented??

Just because, no offence, you don't entirely seem to know what you're talking about.

That a bit heated there Anna!

Interesting question...

What about the newspapers left folded/dumped on the floor?

As I will put them into the recycling (cleaners generally don't) - I will pick up a few to read if time permits otherwise I drop them into recycling bins in the terminal.

The amenity kit bags have always been loved by the primary school age children (either our own and their friends) or subsequently neighbour's children - to use as non-Coles, non-Woolworths sourced pencil cases.

What I find even more (amusing) interesting is that they make BRILLIANT cases for chargers and the associated cords. Not too large and easy to fit in small spaces without fear of breaking off pieces. After a 4-5yr period where they became 'uncool' for teen children - they are now back in demand.

As most of the time I get to pass by several stewards/stewardesses on the way out of the plane I adopt the 'courtesy is best' approach and ask if I spy a haul coming up. A bit like with the excellent solid plastic cutlery that has disappeared from EY these days. After I found out that it was thrown out NOT even recycled - I'd just wipe them down after eating and put them in the plastic bag from around the rug.

Toss them in the DW back home and they were great for using at the kid's birthday parties or school functions - and then re-used or recycled. Sure miss them these days...

Also found the salt sachets very useful for use in long distance triathlons - stayed intact until needed.

Waste-not-want-not

You could go further with argument say your gathering DNA from people's hair or skin remains from airline seats for a study does this mean you are stealing ?

Completely agree with you that there would be no theft case to answer. But again, no offence, you don't seem to be speaking from a position of actual legal knowledge any more than the other bloke is.

Lol ah definitions

When I went to the USA Open in Flushing, Grey Goose Vodka were selling their promotional Tennis coughtail in nice acrylic cups. The drinks were about $15 and many people were leaving behind (abandoning, I guess) their cups. I started going around after the matches and collected them to use as souvenirs and gifts. As I described to some friends, I felt I had "liberated" the cups from the rubbish.

You were being industrious !

I hope that I'm not up for larceny charges over those salt/pepper sachets from last Monday's flight.

I'll claim Finders Keepers.

No but remind me to slap your hand too

I happened to hold up to the light the little containers of lip balm and moisturiser on my last flight. There was almost nothing in there. Felt short changed, and all that packaging for almost nothing.

After having Richard Gere in the seat in front of me in QF F last year leave his PJs behind on his seat, it did cross my mind for a second .... however, that would be too weird.

I have noticed that absolutely nothing in the containers of dried deodorant stick or the lip balm.

Just goes to show why we have a legal profession. Nothing is black and white, and if you have been a prosecutor you would understand the legal arguments in voir dire. I have seen some interesting decisions after lengthy legal arguments, and not always my way, but hey, that's the legal system you win some you lose some. I no longer take offense to what people think and if they think they are right. That's why we have the legal system we have. I still think taking the amenity kits is stealing.

The Airline companies produce 100s of thousand of these kits at bare minimum price/cost they are too happy for you to take some so to have a lingering memory of the flight. It's free advertising at ur home! It's not ok to take kits when boarding but disembarking no issues. I still ask never never refused .... So far

 

[Atleastonce]

You could go further with argument say your gathering DNA from people's hair or skin remains from airline seats for a study does this mean you are stealing ?

That's a completely different argument. There is well documented case law about DNA collection from cigarette butts by police surveillance operatives after a suspect drops or disposes of a cigarette but and if that is admissible. Once again, differing opinions is what makes our legal system so interesting.

 

[Pushka]

Like Ralph said circling around definitions good luck in court !

Why we have lawyers.

 

[marki]

That's a completely different argument. There is well documented case law about DNA collection from cigarette butts by police surveillance operatives after a suspect drops or disposes of a cigarette but and if that is admissible. Once again, differing opinions is what makes our legal system so interesting.

Absolutely, but vile of course the cig butts that is

 

[Cruiser Elite]

I observed this as an economy passenger on a Qantas 747 flight a couple of weeks ago.

Premium economy was not full, and at the end of the flight the spare seats still had amenity kits, menus etc. on them. As we disembarked, walking through PE, I noticed another economy passenger nabbing a couple of the spare amenity kits and putting them in her bag. I don't know whether any of the crew saw the passenger taking them, but if they did they said nothing.

What do you guys think - were those unused kits there for the taking, or is this akin to stealing?

Being neither a QF or PE type person is this type of incident where unused amenity packs are left on seats a common occurrence or is routine practice for staff to collect packs from unoccupied seats?

I have never and hopefully will never need to fly PE - but my experience in F and J cabins is that 'spares' of whatever item are always collected by crew to be re-issued on future flights. Or am I dreaming?

 

[Skyring]

What a fascinating thread!

The airlines are aware that the Y population file through the premium cabins at the end of the flight. They must be also aware of the possibility that items such as newspapers or amenity kits will get lifted.

The cabin crew most likely won't do anything for the same reason that as a taxidriver I never went to the police if I had a "runner". It wouldn't be worth my while. It would be dead time doing something that would have very little chance of an upside for me.

Accounting for consumables consumed by the passengers is probably a matter of X passengers equals X amenity kits consumed. If it's X-1, who cares? If it's X+1, there may be a problem, especially at the premium end of the plane.

Things like NC headsets or mattresses left lying around at the end of the flight aren't going to be thrown away or written off. They will be counted against the cabin equipment, and whoever's job it is to do the counting will likely make a fuss if they see anyone scooping up this stuff on the way out.

I find the various bags and cases make excellent containers for small things like cables and adaptors. I have enough for now, but I would certainly have been tempted in my early days.

It's all a grey area, really. I doubt the airlines see it as worth their while to make a fuss, unless someone is really pushing the limits. Going through each seat in the J cabin and systematically stowing away anything left, for example.

 

[Milboo]

I acknowledge that I am not accredited by the Law Society of New South Wales as an accredited expert in criminal law, but I have litigated a number of matters specifically in the area of abandonment in the NSW District court within the last 5 years.

In each of these case my client was successful.

And that's the end of my free legal advice.

Of course you meant to say, "free legal information"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Being neither a QF or PE type person is this type of incident where unused amenity packs are left on seats a common occurrence or is routine practice for staff to collect packs from unoccupied seats?

I have never and hopefully will never need to fly PE - but my experience in F and J cabins is that 'spares' of whatever item are always collected by crew to be re-issued on future flights. Or am I dreaming?

I think it depends on the airline. CX for example hands them out in flight - exact numbers. And asking for a spare (or different - female instead of male) kit to the one you are offered is not uncommonly rejected (even in F).

Other airlines have them at all seats on boarding but will collect the unused ones at different stages in flight (Air China and some others collect them shortly after take-off).

If collected one assumes they will be use don subsequent sectors - particularly on a return flight to home base.

I think amenity kits left behind in the cabin you are ticketed at the end of the flight are fair game - but they never seem to be the really good ones... either the passengers keep them, or the airline collects them. The cheaper kits are often left behind for a reason!

 

[medhead]

Oh that explains it perfectly (speaking as a defence coffee maker)

Thought I had an uppity Barista steal my seat in a meeting today. Turns out it was a WHS type - even worse than coffee makers. But at least not a prosecutor.

 

[juddles]

.... I still think taking the amenity kits is stealing....

I completely agree.

But I would never try to get one through the court

 

[Anna]

Just goes to show why we have a legal profession.

Police prosecutors aren't members of the legal profession and generally don't have a law degree.

 

[JohnK]

Oh, and in terms of the way I feel about Y pax taking PE & J amenities if they want to, my feelings are go for it. It's the same way I feel about letting in so-called 'untitled' people into lounges or to share any other benefits that a lot DYKWIAs just take for granted. I'll share whatever I can and I'll guest as many as I can as much as I can.

It is no one's business who you guest into a lounge or how often. You have earned status and are entitled to guest anyone you want. Go for it.

 

[Milboo]

It is larceny by finding. Most crimes acts have this in them. Even if abandoned, which in this case I don't think they are, you have to make an attempt to find the owner before claiming a right to take possession. It is similar to picking up a tangible thing on the street and keeping it, or even taking something from the footpath that has been left out for a hard rubbish collection by the council. The owners have thrown it out, and effectively transferred ownership but it is still larceny. At what point is ownership transferred and to whom with amenities kits. It is an interesting argument and if it was argued in a court it would be so around definitions more so on anything else. People don't get convicted on the facts but the ability of their legal representative to argue the admissibility of the facts.

I agree with this. You'd fail at the hurdle of lacking an honest belief that the owner could not be found (presuming that the airline remains the owner if the kit is from a seat that had not been sold).

It seems to fall into the same category of cases where people find cases/ bags of money and try and keep them.

 

[Milboo]

Police prosecutors aren't members of the legal profession and generally don't have a law degree.

Appreciating it's heading OT - this surprised me when I moved from NZ, where prosecutors are admitted practitioners first and foremost. Some are sworn police and others not.

NSW has now a fast track program in place for lawyers wanting to become a prosecutor vs having to serve 3 years as a beat cop first.

 

[juddles]

..... You'd fail at the hurdle of lacking an honest belief that the owner could not be found .....

If you tried to prosecute this you would have a very hard time disproving their defence of "Mistake of Fact". Air travel is not just known to be an activity where people love to keep mementos, but in the case of toiletries kits, the airlines actually make them to be just that.

If I had to defend someone in these circumstances I would start by tendering a copy of this very AFF thread - even we super-frequent flyers can't agree if it is right or wrong