NBN Discussion

[TheRealTMA]

Because it is the cheapest and quickest build which also achieves a modest return on invested capital.

Rudd’s megalomaniac thought bubble to start off
Swan wanted to show Labor it could get a budget surplus - so created this off the books even though the Govt borrowed the capital so that it would not affect the budget position.

The megalomania continued when everyone told Rudd it could not be done at that price and in that time frame. Rudd knew better so when no private partners came forward he went it alone and invest $43bil and build by 2017.

NBN starts and starts building fibre in Labor held or marginal electorates - pork barrelling.

Then Turnbull thinks he can build cheaper and faster because he is a banker smarter than everyone else. So he changes the goalposts because the poison pill from Rudd/Swan/Conroy was that the mandated ROIC return on invested capital was unachiveable.

But Turnbull is smart so he makes it work by using MTM - copper and HFC in many places bringing the cost way lower and quicker, And the govt wanted to show it was superior economic managers so Hockey and then ScoMo were desperate to keep it off the books as well. So the Enterprise model had to show it was able to achieve an ROIC.

The other side of the ROIC is what the consumers were prepared to pay. When it comes to internet people did not like spending more than $70-80 generally. The expectations were set - price squeeze on one end and fast internet available now on the other. No one wanted to wait years - we want it fast cheap and now!.

So why copper?. 2 reasons:

1)politicians promised a Rolls Royce and delivered a Corolla which is what you always get when politicians dream up a project.
2)people wanted fast and cheap internet and they did not want to pay more than what they were paying now, They wanted a Rolls Royce for the price of a Corolla. Who wouldn’t. Even now when some could get an Audi by paying more they still refused and only paid a Corolla price

Ah yes, now I remember. Give the plebs copper so we can save money to give Liberal friends $65B to increase their executive salaries and by more Teslas and Jets.

 

[Quickstatus]

Ah yes, now I remember. Give the plebs copper so we can save money to give Liberal friends $65B to increase their executive salaries and by more Teslas and Jets.

Really who are the Liberal friends who got 65billion to buy more Teslas and Jets and increase salaries?

No one is saving money - it was all borrowed.

It’s a dogs breakfast and suitable for internet requirements for now and maybe into the foreseeable future which is not very far. Look out for NBN 2.0 and more largesse.

 

[Quickstatus]

(Edited to correct the prose...)



Because it is the cheapest and quickest build which also achieve a modest ROIC (return on invested capital)

Rudd's megalomania thought bubble started it all off
Swan wanted to show Labor could get a budget surplus as well. If Costello could he could too. Worlds best Treasurer surely had to get a budget surplus...somehow. So the trio Rudd/Swan/Conroy took it off the books so that it would not affect the budget position. Never mind that with both the capital had to be borrowed as Rudd had blown the zero net Govt debt on the cash splash

The megalomania continued when everyone told Rudd it could not be done at the price and in that time frame of $43 bill and 8 years. Rudd knew better than any expert and when no private partners put their hand up, he went it alone.

NBN starts with building fibre in Labor and marginal electorates. -pork barrelling. No surprises here either.

Then they said NBN has "passed" thousands of homes when in fact it was still in the planning stages.

Then Turnbull thinks he can build cheaper and faster because he is a banker and is smarter than everyone else - megalomania. But there was a poison pill from Rudd/Swan/Conroy - that the mandated ROIC was unachievable at the cost time and price point that people was willing to pay.
But Turnbull is very smart - Kerry Packers barrister and Ozemail - high IQ presumably. So he makes it work by using MTM - copper and HFC in many places bringing the cost way lower and quicker, so the ROIC is now achievable - on paper.

Dont forget the now Liberal Govt had to deliver on their "superior economic managers" mantra because they were Liberals and because they kept hammering Swan about it. Hockey and ScoMo were therefore also desperate to also keep the project off the books. Do anything to make the ROIC work. So they brought in Morrow from Vodafail to make the numbers work and in the meantime bury the project and the Senates estimates committee in gobbledegook.

The numerator on ROIC equation is net income. When it comes to internet people do not like spending more than $70-$80 /month. And this was a government project, so like all government projects it should be cheap or free to the consumer (in their eyes). The expectations were then set. Fast Cheap and I want it Now!. The NBN net income had to account for this fact. Doesn't matter how rolled gold you make it people wont pay for it or they will make a big song and dance about it that politically it was not a good idea.

So why copper?. 2 reasons:

1)Politicians promised a Rolls Royce and delivered a Corolla which is what you always get when politicians dream up a project.

2)Consumers wanted fast and cheap internet now and they did not want to pay more than what they were paying now. They wanted a Rolls Royce for the price of a Corolla. Who wouldn’t. Even now when some could get an Audi by paying more but they still refused and only paid a Corolla price. If the Government is paying for it why should they?

However the poison pill is still there.....

 

[TheRealTMA]

Ah good to see the boss of NBN blaming and shaming "gamers" for the fact that their NBN wireless connections are completely unfit for purpose.

 

[TheRealTMA]

(Edited to correct the prose...)



Because it is the cheapest and quickest build which also achieve a modest ROIC (return on invested capital)

Rudd's megalomania thought bubble started it all off
Swan wanted to show Labor could get a budget surplus as well. If Costello could he could too. Worlds best Treasurer surely had to get a budget surplus...somehow. So the trio Rudd/Swan/Conroy took it off the books so that it would not affect the budget position. Never mind that with both the capital had to be borrowed as Rudd had blown the zero net Govt debt on the cash splash

The megalomania continued when everyone told Rudd it could not be done at the price and in that time frame of $43 bill and 8 years. Rudd knew better than any expert and when no private partners put their hand up, he went it alone.

NBN starts with building fibre in Labor and marginal electorates. -pork barrelling. No surprises here either.

Then they said NBN has "passed" thousands of homes when in fact it was still in the planning stages.

Then Turnbull thinks he can build cheaper and faster because he is a banker and is smarter than everyone else - megalomania. But there was a poison pill from Rudd/Swan/Conroy - that the mandated ROIC was unachievable at the cost time and price point that people was willing to pay.
But Turnbull is very smart - Kerry Packers barrister and Ozemail - high IQ presumably. So he makes it work by using MTM - copper and HFC in many places bringing the cost way lower and quicker, so the ROIC is now achievable - on paper.

Dont forget the now Liberal Govt had to deliver on their "superior economic managers" mantra because they were Liberals and because they kept hammering Swan about it. Hockey and ScoMo were therefore also desperate to also keep the project off the books. Do anything to make the ROIC work. So they brought in Morrow from Vodafail to make the numbers work and in the meantime bury the project and the Senates estimates committee in gobbledegook.

The numerator on ROIC equation is net income. When it comes to internet people do not like spending more than $70-$80 /month. And this was a government project, so like all government projects it should be cheap or free to the consumer (in their eyes). The expectations were then set. Fast Cheap and I want it Now!. The NBN net income had to account for this fact. Doesn't matter how rolled gold you make it people wont pay for it or they will make a big song and dance about it that politically it was not a good idea.

So why copper?. 2 reasons:

1)Politicians promised a Rolls Royce and delivered a Corolla which is what you always get when politicians dream up a project.

2)Consumers wanted fast and cheap internet now and they did not want to pay more than what they were paying now. They wanted a Rolls Royce for the price of a Corolla. Who wouldn’t. Even now when some could get an Audi by paying more but they still refused and only paid a Corolla price. If the Government is paying for it why should they?

However the poison pill is still there.....

It's completely false economy that the Libs are feeding us. It will all have to be replaced in 5 years or so.

The country is in the best economic state it;'s been for years and there's plenty of funds for infrastructure. Libs have made a dog's breakfast of the whole roll-out. $65B spent ( on the cheapest interest rates the AGovt has ever seen) is by far a better investment in building an economy and increasing productivity in Australia than giving away $65B to big companies who pay no tax anyway.

Last week in Madrid we had Gigabit connections to the apartment I was renting. We are third world and will be stuck there for years after this farce by the Libs.

 

[Quickstatus]

And Lab

 

[Buzzard]

Received an email from NBN Co yesterday letting me know that it's 2 weeks before the switch is flicked.
Let's see if it actually happens on time.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Not quite the NBN but Telstra cable (110/5). Some idiot has run into cable and broken connections. Maybe out for up to 2 days (and weekend coming). Telstra gave us 5 Gb free data for our 4G wireless dongle (incidentally which Telstra bought for us 2 yeas who during similar outages). So can now plug dongle into USB of router and network internet access resumes.

Excellent service from Telstra. Cudos.

 

[moa999]

Not bad. And probably better speeds than their new smart modem where 4G would auto kick-in but capped at 6/1.

Also on Telstra Cable worthwhile reconsidering plan if you don't actually need 100+, as the base plan is now 55/5

 

[TheRealTMA]

Not bad. And probably better speeds than their new smart modem where 4G would auto kick-in but capped at 6/1.

Also on Telstra Cable worthwhile reconsidering plan if you don't actually need 100+, as the base plan is now 55/5

Speeds are adequate for general business, email, surfing but nothing more. Quite good for dongle through router at 20/15. For general use, won’t have anything less than 100.

 

[rogerkambah]

Received an email from NBN Co yesterday letting me know that it's 2 weeks before the switch is flicked.
Let's see if it actually happens on time.

@Buzzard

Well today is the day.

 

[Quickstatus]

An acquaintance who lives near me has been put on Skymuster Satellite - and he activated it and is now on a plan.

His scenario is his street is planned Fixed Wireless but June-Dec 2019 earliest activation. However his house is one of 2 who are Satellite and available now.

I think he and his neighbour are Satellite because the Google map markers for their properties are down at the creek, while their houses are up on a ridge by the road.

Makes a difference with Fixed Wireless signals- his house has clear LOS to planned location of FW tower. But NBN uses Google maps as the location source and thinks he is living in a gully by the creek.

He is happy to get NBN now albeit Satellite (going from 2Mbps with ADSL to 25 Mbps) but is not happy about limited data allowance between 0700-2300

I suggested moving the Google map marker over to the house and getting NBN to adjust the service class to FW.

I fear he is now stuck with Satellite forever ( effectively accepting NBN offer by activating a service with an RSP)
But with recent revelations about FW what’s better?. 25Mbps but limited data or lots of data but potentially congested tower with 0-6 Mbps?

Within 1 km of his house there is Satellite, Fixed Wireless and FTTC.

 

[moa999]

As a taxpayer I'd hope so.
The FW/ Sat installs aren't cheap.

The main issue on Sat is the data caps and the latency (function of physics about a 1sec round trip to satellite) which mostly impacts VOIP or Video conf.

While FW does have problems it seems limited to a number of towers that are effectively oversubscribed (at least in peak)

 

[Quickstatus]

They seem to have reduced the planned FW footprint in our area to mitigate the potential congestion - replaced by Sat and FTTC

 

[JinbaIttai]

If I don't get over 25 I'll be onto the complaints department

As others have said, if your line isn't capable of 25Mbit you will be moved to a cheaper plan.
NBN only guarantee 12Mbit (on FTTN) until the end of "co-existance" - which is at least another 18 months away.

If you put your address in here it gives your technology type, and (where possible) has the pillar & node location to help provide an estimated speed. NBN MTM Alpha

If it doesn't have pillar information for your area you're welcome to PM me your address (or one of your neighbours) and I can locate your pillar via Telstra maps.

 

[NM]

I think he and his neighbour are Satellite because the Google map markers for their properties are down at the creek, while their houses are up on a ridge by the road.

[snip]

I suggested moving the Google map marker over to the house and getting NBN to adjust the service class to FW.

Are you sure about NBN Co using Google Maps? I would expect them to use NationalMap the same as most engineering and government agencies use for planning purposes.

 

[Quickstatus]

Are you sure about NBN Co using Google Maps? I would expect them to use NationalMap the same as most engineering and government agencies use for planning purposes.

You could be right, though people have asked NBN to adjust their Location ID service class based on corrected Google map position - this may just mean using Google map to find out lat/long of the actual premises and transmitting it to NBN which can also be done via Nationalmap. Most however are more familiar with Google map.

At my place there are no differences in position between my national map location and google map location (pre correction).

 

[Buzzard]

@Buzzard

Well today is the day.

Nothing happened here today. Aussie Broadband are not able to provide an update. I'm not blaming AB for any delays or false promises from NBN co.

 

[Buzzard]

Email received from AB. Tech coming Friday week to do the install.

 

[pauly7]

Interesting article (albeit on no news dot com) about correlating property price growth and quality of NBN coverage suggesting buyers rank it highly and are buying in suburbs with good NBN eg Brunswick (Vic), Fitzroy North (Vic) etc