NBN Discussion

[Legoman]

You're picking one rather simplistic metric

True, but ping speed IS without a shadow of doubt the most important metric by far. It determines how fast web pages load, how much delay is on your VOIP calls/video calls, how disruptive advertising rubbish is to browsing (which is perfectly relevent in this forum) and in general how the internet 'feels' to browse. It is not relevent to streaming or downloading large files, because these happen over a long time independent of the ping speed, BUT, youre overall of psychometric impression of internet speed (not measured) will be determined by the ping speed.

To use your analogy, a go-kart doing 30km/h around a track will feel like it's going 3 times faster than when you drive your Camry to the shops at 50km/h. It's not of course, but it will damn well feel like it. My ping speed on ADSL was circa 10ms. That has not changed at all since FTTN connection. I know my connection is faster if I measure it, but it doesn't feel any faster. Web pages do not load any quicker. Ads are still annoying.

It's a bit like saying are you really going to notice getting from A to B any quicker which is only 50 metres when you're in a Ferrari over a Camry.

Silly analogy because living next to guy who owns several Ferraris, I can assure you the Camry would be much, much faster/economical/comfortable/easier for that task.

What an average user will notice is web page loading won't grind to a halt when sending a 20MB email or uploading some photos/videos.

Anyone who sends 20MB via e-mail SMTP should be locked in a room full of mirrors to have a bloody good hard look at themselves.

 

[Daver6]

True, but ping speed IS without a shadow of doubt the most important metric by far. It determines how fast web pages load, how much delay is on your VOIP calls/video calls, how disruptive advertising rubbish is to browsing (which is perfectly relevent in this forum) and in general how the internet 'feels' to browse. It is not relevent to streaming or downloading large files, because these happen over a long time independent of the ping speed, BUT, youre overall of psychometric impression of internet speed (not measured) will be determined by the ping speed.

To use your analogy, a go-kart doing 30km/h around a track will feel like it's going 3 times faster than when you drive your Camry to the shops at 50km/h. It's not of course, but it will damn well feel like it. My ping speed on ADSL was circa 10ms. That has not changed at all since FTTN connection. I know my connection is faster if I measure it, but it doesn't feel any faster. Web pages do not load any quicker. Ads are still annoying.


Silly analogy because living next to guy who owns several Ferraris, I can assure you the Camry would be much, much faster/economical/comfortable/easier for that task.


Anyone who sends 20MB via e-mail SMTP should be locked in a room full of mirrors to have a bloody good hard look at themselves.

Ping time is one of many metrics that will determine how fast a web page loads. A 1ms ping time to a web server means nothing if the web server is slow and serving up the page in the first place. A slow PC will have a huge effect too on the rendering of a web page. So to say ping speed is the most important metric in determining how fast a page will load is a fallacy.

Secondly, go run your ping tests while saturating the outbound link and see how they blow out. It is much easier to saturate a less than 1Mbps aDSL link than a 20Mbps uplink with a 50/20 NBN plan.

 

[Lynda2475]

It is not relevent to streaming or downloading large files, because these happen over a long time

Speed is indeed very relavent to streaming, when you are watching Netflix/Prime/Stan/Catch-up TV - the video is being downloaded in near real time (a second or so ahead of what you are seeing), so cough ADSL speeds of 3-5Mbps prevent you from watching without buffering interruptions. I get that streaming isnt your thing, but this is how most people get their entertainment these days so to not have to be bombarded with tv advertising.

There is very little data on most website, so most loaded relatively ok on ADSL, but streaming even SD let alone HD and 4K uses significantly more data and needs a betterconnection. As do video calls; and when WFH you cant wait hours for a file to upload you need it to get there asap.

VOIP actually uses very little data which is why someone needing a telephone only service on the nbn only needs 12/1.

Poor ping most noticebaly effects online gamers, not reading a forum or newspaper online.

how disruptive advertising rubbish is to browsing (which is perfectly relevent in this forum)

Why not pay for a silver AFF membership so there no advertising to cntend with, suppor ths fabulous site!

 

[Daver6]

Speed is indeed very relavent to streaming, when you are watching Netflix/Prime/Stan/Catch-up TV - the video is being downloaded in near real time (a second or so ahead of what you are seeing), so cough ADSL speeds of 3-5Mbps prevent you from watching without buffering interruptions. I get that streaming isnt your thing, but this is how most people get their entertainment these days so to not have to be bombarded with tv advertising.

There is very little data on most website, so most loaded relatively ok on ADSL, but streaming even SD let alone HD and 4K uses significantly more data and needs a faster connection. As does video calls; and when WFH you cant wait hours for a file to upload you need it to get there asap.

VOIP actually uses very little data which is why someone needing a telephone only service on the nbn only needs 12/1.

Poor ping most noticebaly effects online gamers.



Why not pay for a silver AFF membership so there no advertising to cntend with, suppor ths fabulous site!

Just being pedantic here, but we're actually talking about bandwidth, not speed. That, of course, doesn't change the point you're making, which I agree with.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Anyone got such a generous neighbour?

Matt spent $11,000 to get an upgraded NBN connection, then his neighbours connected to it for free

Sick of his internet dropping out, software developer Matt Hall paid to have the NBN to his home upgraded. He didn't realise that he was also paying for his neighbours to get cheap access.

www.abc.net.au

(apologies. It’s an article from ABC news. )

 

[moa999]

Plenty have spent money on FTTN to FTTP conversion - whole thread on Whirlpool on it.
For most it would mean their neighbour can get it at a far lesser cost (say $2k for new wiring from your house to the new fibre split and the associated equipment).
The new development near him may well have gotten FTTP anyway depending on how big it was and how the copper cables ran in the area.

 

[Quickstatus]

Minimum floor price of TCP now is $6000
regardless of neighbour’s largesse

 

[Quickstatus]

The new development near him may well have gotten FTTP anyway depending on how big it was and how the copper cables ran in the area.

New Development in brown fields normally get the street tech - FTTN in that case. ...Unless someone close by did a TCP.

 

[Lynda2475]

New Development in brown fields normally get the street tech - FTTN in that case

Depends on the size of the New Dev, and if the builders do the right thing during contruction. New MDUs (high rise and complexes) tend to gte Fibre to the Building (FTTB) or FTTP providing the devloper runs fibre from each unit to the basement during the contruction phase. Some are still being cheap and only running copper (when FTTP would be a great marketing tool), and others dont even engage nbn during the build meaning people move in to find out that the new dev application hasnt even been lodged.

A friend living a high rise that was move in ready 8 months ago (and built over the last 3 years) has had to start the whole process as the chairman of her strata because the developer didnt do a new dev with nbn.

Another frined rents in a new building in outer melbourne and cant get nbn because the developer chose to get a competing fibre network to cable the building, locking tennants into a RSP (zero choice) which charges a lot more than nbn RSPs, but as the building is deemed adequately serviced, nbn arent allowed to offer service. This also appens in many green fields sites.

 

[Dee#]

We are an older couple and we now only use our phones as a Telstra hot spot. They have been giving out 30Mb extra data since March. Total 55 . Has been enough. Used to Have TPG unlimited ADSL which was great but were forced to switch to TPG NBN. Big disaster. We had the joy of it for 24hrs. Yes it was fast when it was active!!!!!!!!
In Perth inner suburbs there was a big thunderstorm. No more internet. Rang up.......oh NBN tech can't get there for 10 days....what!

So no home phone and no internet. Too bad if there was an emergency.

So we started with our mobile phone hot spots. Worked ok. When the technician of the NBN monopoly finally turned up (TPG could do nothing) for 5 minutes he said our nbn box was non functional and replaced it. Funny as everything else in the house worked fine. So 10 days wait just to find out that.

So stuff this. We cancelled nbn.

We now use our phones, which are also great for holiday within OZ and WA as I cannot see going anywhere else for a while. Roll on Telstra 5G which is also in suburbs close to us.
Will buy more data as necessary.
We prerecord stuff. Streaming gets buffering. Probably would be a lot more difficult for gamers or people with kids on the internet all the time to use this method. But better than being held to ransom by monopoly NBN.

Costs us less to not pay the $69 a month in addition to phones. We have to have the mobile phones, currently $50 a month each and could up it by $10 for a lot more data.
Saw an article on ABC about doing it this way with a hot spot instead of an internet contract was costing poorer families more. Can't see how quite frankly. Just keep off the games.

 

[moa999]

but as the building is deemed adequately serviced, nbn arent allowed to offer service. This also appens in many green fields sites.

And no doubt developer gets a kickback of some description.
Shouldn't be allowed unless the network providers will also wholesale to any RSP at equivalent end cost as the NBN.

hot spot instead of an internet contract was costing poorer families more. Can't see how quite frankly. Just keep off the games.

Hot spot works OK up to about 100Gb which is low usage - the average NBN customer is about 300Gb these days - and plenty hit Tb's a month.

Games aren't so much the issue (other than updates) - streaming HD/4K video is the big data user.

Netflix 4K is 7GB/hr for example, HD 3GB/he.

 

[Buzzard]

Is this odd or am I missing something?
On a 50/20 plan, why is the upload speed so high? I have tested several times and always get a 3 figure upload speed

 

[ajw373]

That is weird. Out of interest how is youR nbn being delivered to you house?

fibre to the home, fibre to the node, HFC (old foxtel cable) or point to point WiFi?

 

[Quickstatus]

Sure it’s not 4G?

 

[Buzzard]

That is weird. Out of interest how is youR nbn being delivered to you house?

fibre to the home, fibre to the node, HFC (old foxtel cable) or point to point WiFi?

Fibre to the house.
The house has no copper, it's wired with Cat 5e

Post automatically merged: Aug 14, 2020

Sure it’s not 4G?

It shouldn't be but now that you mention it I should turn off mobile data to be certain. I'll report back.

 

[Buzzard]

Sure it’s not 4G?

Well spotted and thank you @Quickstatus, when I turned Wi-Fi off you can see the result, it must have been 4G. Good old Boost Pre Paid.

 

[moa999]

Still strange upload, and higher latency than you'd expect.

 

[Daver6]

Well spotted and thank you @Quickstatus, when I turned Wi-Fi off you can see the result, it must have been 4G. Good old Boost Pre Paid. View attachment 225321

Try speedtest.net or some other service. I got some whacky results using speedof.me

 

[Quickstatus]

Still not right upload should not be greater than download for NBN.

try OOKLA

 

[Quickstatus]

with Cat 5e

Cat 5e is copper