NBN Discussion

[Brissy1]

What technology?
FTTC/HFC/FTTN/FTTP?

I am guessing HFC based on the description.
You can only have one active account per “NTD” but you could ask for a second NTD.
Alternatively run Ethernet cable or set up a mesh wifi and share the one connection

Yes, optus search shows HFC. A second NTD would mean a second account I presume, that would be excessive for its use. So plan B, mmm

 

[Brissy1]

Have you checked with NBN (or an ISP) what service is available? It could HFC and the other cable is just that - cable TV (Foxtel).

Ah that's could be it, just Foxtel, because upstairs cable just goes to the upstairs lounge

 

[Brissy1]

Thanks SYD and DeKa for solutions. As I had to google "mesh" network it's not a quick solution for someone like me to set up. Optus gave me a pair of Powerline Ethernet adapters 6 years ago, still in the box. My understanding is that they use the 240v house power wiring as a sort of ethernet cable? Sounds good as I'd also like internet in the basement.
What is involved in "(preferable with a wifi adapter at the far end)"? Is that a wifi boost you plug into the adaptor?

BTW it's an old house with thick solid internal walls, so even on the ground floor I might have difficulty getting wifi from the lounge NTD to say the kitchen 2 rooms away. So maybe just get lots of Powerline adaptors?

 

[SYD]

I have a set of 3x Netgear powerline adaptors. One is a wifi router built in but you can plug any wifi router if the ones you have are just an Ethernet port.

Plug one adaptor directly into a power outlet near your NBN modem (you’ll also need an Ethernet cable). Try and avoid using a power board, extension cord or double adapter. The other adapter(s) need to be on the same power circuit. When you’re setting them up for the 1st time, it’s a good idea to plug the 2nd one in nearby to check you can establish a connection. Then try outlets near where you’ll place another wifi router(s). There should be signal strength meters on each adaptor. You may find that some outlets work better than others.

I’m on an NBN50 plan and I find that I can still get close to 50mps over powerline but when I was on a free NBN 250 trial, my TPG modem/router was getting wifi speeds > 200mps but over powerline it was < 100 mps.

 

[Brissy1]

I have a set of 3x Netgear powerline adaptors. One is a wifi router built in but you can plug any wifi router if the ones you have are just an Ethernet port.

Plug one adaptor directly into a power outlet near your NBN modem (you’ll also need an Ethernet cable). Try and avoid using a power board, extension cord or double adapter. The other adapter(s) need to be on the same power circuit. When you’re setting them up for the 1st time, it’s a good idea to plug the 2nd one in nearby to check you can establish a connection. Then try outlets near where you’ll place another wifi router(s). There should be signal strength meters on each adaptor. You may find that some outlets work better than others.

I’m on an NBN50 plan and I find that I can still get close to 50mps over powerline but when I was on a free NBN 250 trial, my TPG modem/router was getting wifi speeds > 200mps but over powerline it was < 100 mps.

Thanks, I like your instructions presuming that I've never done this before, because I haven't! Speed isn't a big issue, this is all just for Netflixs/alexia/spy(cat) camera/internet browsing.
I didn't think it through, that of course you need to be on the same power circuit; that's a bummer because for some reason there's an excessive number.
Any way I can"jump" to other circuits... ethernet cable between powerline outlets that are on different circuits but close?

 

[33kft]

Any way I can"jump" to other circuits... ethernet cable between powerline outlets that are on different circuits but close?

At this point you would be better off just running cat6 direct from where you need imho

 

[SYD]

At this point you would be better off just running cat6 direct from where you need imho

That’s what I’d do if I was building/renovating. But otherwise there’s a time/cost issue.

I‘d still try the Powerline approach first. They’re pretty reliable and easier to setup than a wifi range extender (they can be a PITA).

 

[Brissy1]

Thanks guys (?) for the options, knowing all this I can assess the best for my house. Might be a combination, think I'll be able to get a cat wire underfloor between ground floor lounge and study (thus avoiding 2 solid walls) and play around with Powerline elsewhere. But still an issue with separate power circuits... from memory there's 4 power fuses (yes fuses!).

Where I'm renting atm has cat hub. Fantastic, but was easily installed by the owner in this newish pole house with exposed underfloor access to both levels.

 

[33kft]

Worth getting a quote. Retrofitting is more expensive than a new build but it's not so bad. I got 3 patch panels with 12 runs between them and easily 25-30 drops retrofitted as well as a bunch of camera drops and all up I didn't break $2000 but there are discounts in volume. It was a 2 man job and went through two boxes of Cat6 so much more than a single run - it ends up being the equivalent of $57 per drop and that's not even counting the patch panel mounting etc etc. A more realistic price per drop for low volume is probably going to be ~$150 per drop. It might end up being worth it.

I think the base issues with multiple power line adapters and running cables between them are going to be cost, because you'll need 2 sets to do the job of one plus the cabling inbetween, and then the double hit on modulation which means your 100Mbps max quickly becomes 70 or 50 which may not be end of the world, but filtering doesn't happen at the meter and there could be cross-talk between the circuits as there's no filtering at the panel.

That said, it also might just work (albeit degraded) cross-circuit: Do Powerline Adapters Need to Be on the Same Circuit? - Home Network Geek

 

[TheRealTMA]

Thanks, I like your instructions presuming that I've never done this before, because I haven't! Speed isn't a big issue, this is all just for Netflixs/alexia/spy(cat) camera/internet browsing.
I didn't think it through, that of course you need to be on the same power circuit; that's a bummer because for some reason there's an excessive number.
Any way I can"jump" to other circuits... ethernet cable between powerline outlets that are on different circuits but close?

If the cables out of the NBN box are ethernet, you could of couse just put in a small hub/switch close to the NBN outlet, disconnect both cables then connect a small cable frm the NBN box to the switch and connect the two cables to the switch.

 

[Guvner]

From what I've gleaned I think it's coax from the street to the modem with a splitter for the second outlet. Probably an old Optus or Foxtel connection.

 

[TheRealTMA]

From what I've gleaned I think it's coax from the street to the modem with a splitter for the second outlet. Probably an old Optus or Foxtel connection.

ok. As you show, that's not a seperate NBN connections but a splitter for a Foxtel/Opus TV cable, no use for Internet. Can you run a new network Cat6 cable from the Gatweay router to wherever you need the new connections? Or add a WiFi Range extender or two to reach the areas you want.

PS: ref: The best Wi-Fi extenders in 2021

 

[Brissy1]

Worth getting a quote. Retrofitting is more expensive than a new build but it's not so bad. I got 3 patch panels with 12 runs between them and easily 25-30 drops retrofitted as well as a bunch of camera drops and all up I didn't break $2000 but there are discounts in volume. It was a 2 man job and went through two boxes of Cat6 so much more than a single run - it ends up being the equivalent of $57 per drop and that's not even counting the patch panel mounting etc etc. A more realistic price per drop for low volume is probably going to be ~$150 per drop. It might end up being worth it.

I think the base issues with multiple power line adapters and running cables between them are going to be cost, because you'll need 2 sets to do the job of one plus the cabling inbetween, and then the double hit on modulation which means your 100Mbps max quickly becomes 70 or 50 which may not be end of the world, but filtering doesn't happen at the meter and there could be cross-talk between the circuits as there's no filtering at the panel.

That said, it also might just work (albeit degraded) cross-circuit: Do Powerline Adapters Need to Be on the Same Circuit? - Home Network Geek

I'll be trying the powerline method since I've got some and there's zero impact on the structure of the (heritage) house, but there are getting more and more "known unknowns"; from that link "...It has been known that consumer units using RCD (Residual Current Devices)...can cause issues" and of course the house has an rcd.
But I love getting these ideas, for when l go to plan B...C...D...
Thanks all.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I'll be trying the powerline method since I've got some and there's zero impact on the structure of the (heritage) house, but there are getting more and more "known unknowns"; from that link "...It has been known that consumer units using RCD (Residual Current Devices)...can cause issues" and of course the house has an rcd.
But I love getting these ideas, for when l go to plan B...C...D...
Thanks all.

Is not the issue with powerline extenders that they need to be on the same circuit? If the OP wants a connection to a different floor, then most likely the circuits are different?

 

[Brissy1]

ok. As you show, that's not a seperate NBN connections but a splitter for a Foxtel/Opus TV cable, no use for Internet. Can you run a new network Cat6 cable from the Gatweay router to wherever you need the new connections? Or add a WiFi Range extender or two to reach the areas you want.

PS: ref: The best Wi-Fi extenders in 2021

I'm going to open up the outside box this afternoon, because I think there is a splitter in there.
The link from 33kft states that powerline extenders can/might work on different circuits. No idea how.

 

[33kft]

The link from 33kft states that powerline extenders can/might work on different circuits. No idea how.

It's true if circuits all terminate in the same distribution box and nothing filters the RF within the distribution box. The RF will travel as far as it can before it is filtered or attenuates to nothing - RF filtering doesn't necessarily happen between circuits, depending on what those circuits are terminated with.... a fuse might not act as a filter, an RCD might, a meter might as well? There's many different combinations.

But circuits aren't entirely isolated from each other, they're just parallel connections to the incoming feed. Keep in mind that to work inter-circuit the RF has to travel the length of the circuit back to the distribution box and then the length of the second circuit. So the "filtering" could just be attenuation due to distance, it doesn't necessarily need active RF filtering to occur. This is why the article mentions the quality of the wiring, as older wiring could result in shorter propagation of the RF.

 

[33kft]

Also, don't forget noisy appliances. If you have an aircon or fridge on a circuit, that's likely generating RF noise of its own and as the signal passes these appliances it will end up severely degraded. So it doesn't even have to be right back at the distribution box that the issue occurs, it can simply be downstream on the same circuit.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I'm going to open up the outside box this afternoon, because I think there is a splitter in there.
The link from 33kft states that powerline extenders can/might work on different circuits. No idea how.

Try and see but from our experience with Optus and Telstra external cable connections, so I don't belive that will help. The outside box connectio to the NBN modem is a cable connection, not an ethernet cable.

FWIW: When they work they are good but we gave up on powerline devices (netgear) since they didn't work on different circuits in the house, seemed to be unreliable and dropout a lot probably because of old wiring or applience on the circuits. Cat 6 cables and wifi range extenders was our solution.

 

[Guvner]

ok. As you show, that's not a seperate NBN connections but a splitter for a Foxtel/Opus TV cable, no use for Internet.

Not necessarily, you could still use adaptors: ethernet <> coax ------- coax <> ethernet.
Run ethernet from one of the router LAN ports to a coax adaptor (Ethernet port), disconnect the coax from the splitter and connect it to the adaptor (Coax port) instead, and use the existing coax to get upstairs, then do the reverse on the second adaptor plugged in to the old Pay TV wall plate. Only trick is to get access to the splitter and second outlet cable. Same approach as powerline adaptors, but using coax instead.



Rough diagrams I threw together:








The location of the splitter depends on how the installer configured the wiring and may be slightly different to my diagrams.

 

[Brissy1]

It's true if circuits all terminate in the same distribution box and nothing filters the RF within the distribution box. The RF will travel as far as it can before it is filtered or attenuates to nothing - RF filtering doesn't necessarily happen between circuits, depending on what those circuits are terminated with.... a fuse might not act as a filter, an RCD might, a meter might as well? There's many different combinations.

But circuits aren't entirely isolated from each other, they're just parallel connections to the incoming feed. Keep in mind that to work inter-circuit the RF has to travel the length of the circuit back to the distribution box and then the length of the second circuit. So the "filtering" could just be attenuation due to distance, it doesn't necessarily need active RF filtering to occur. This is why the article mentions the quality of the wiring, as older wiring could result in shorter propagation of the RF.

Interesting, it would be fun if the meter didn't act as an RF filter...free internet from the unit next door