NBN Discussion

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Remind me again why you have to pay $2,000 to connect? Because you're in an apartment? I don't think that's been sorted out yet. I still don't see how the cost is 2k PP. Lets say you're in a 50 apartment complex... at 2k Per apartment that is 100k to run fibre (replace the copper?). Lets say the tradie doing it charges 1k/day.. that's 100 days effort (minus cost of fibre)... would it really take 100 days for someone to run fibre in a 50 block apartment? I don't think it should....

I did just did a check on fiber cable prices. You can buy pre terminated fibre cable about 50m long for $100.Assuming your 10 story building has proper wiring piping. Then adding on the cost of modem in each apartment and a router in the basement. If would not cost more than $250 per apartment.

On the matter of the installation of cable in our apartment building, I've been personally involved with Bigpond/Optus/Foxtel a few times. It's little short of a nightmare dealing with Bigpond. And Optus decided they didn't want to connect apartment buildings at all in our street. Period. For Foxtel cable, Foxtel sent us to Bigpond. Foxtel wanted us to use a satellite solution.

All the above yet the Bigpond/Optus/Foxtel cables run less than 1 metre from our front door!

Bigpond/Foxtel insist that MDU (apartment) cable installations are done by their "construction partners" to their standards. It looks like NBN Co is heading down the same path. See: http://www.vbcs.com.au/pdf/NBN Roll Out NBN.pdf

Like many mid-sized buildings, we have no accessible ducting or cable pipes. All cabling (and other services) is done inside plaster walls and that plaster is in most cases fire rated. One problem for us would be getting a new cable installation done that doesn't look ugly all over the building. It's the removing/replacing/repainting the plaster to add a new cable/conduit to the existing services inside the walls that would be a big part of the expense rather than the cable itself.

As a price and installation method reference point, Foxtel in 2012 proposed we change our TV cabling to their IQ satellite solution at a cost starting from $340/apartment - in reality we knew it would cost more than that. They proposed running 24 x RG11 cables (2 to each of our 12 apartments) from dishes/boxes on the roof, over the sides of the roof, down the external building walls and then into each apartment. Simple but ugly - I think the cables also needed to be in conduits. We have a heritage listed façade and no owner was very impressed!

Edit to add: I found out a bit about what NBN Co will want in (new) MDUs: NBN-NO-GDE-0011 section 6.2 says see NBN-TE-CTO-284 which says "Provision of a minimum of P23mm nominal inside diameter, white, rigid communications conduit with draw string, from either the telecommunications room or riser/closet location to each NTD location."

So separate 23mm (ca 25mm outside) individual conduits to each apartment they want.. and it may well turn out to be a similar requirement in existing MDUs!...

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

On the matter of the installation of cable in our apartment building, I've been personally involved with Bigpond/Optus/Foxtel a few times. It's little short of a nightmare dealing with Bigpond. And Optus decided they didn't want to connect apartment buildings at all in our street. Period. For Foxtel cable, Foxtel sent us to Bigpond. Foxtel wanted us to use a satellite solution.

All the above yet the Bigpond/Optus/Foxtel cables run less than 1 metre from our front door!

Bigpond/Foxtel insist that MDU (apartment) cable installations are done by their "construction partners" to their standards. It looks like NBN Co is heading down the same path. See: http://www.vbcs.com.au/pdf/NBN Roll Out NBN.pdf

Like many mid-sized buildings, we have no accessible ducting or cable pipes. All cabling (and other services) is done inside plaster walls and that plaster is in most cases fire rated. One problem for us would be getting a new cable installation done that doesn't look ugly all over the building. It's the removing/replacing/repainting the plaster to add a new cable/conduit to the existing services inside the walls that would be a big part of the expense rather than the cable itself.

As a price and installation method reference point, Foxtel in 2012 proposed we change our TV cabling to their IQ satellite solution at a cost starting from $340/apartment - in reality we knew it would cost more than that. They proposed running 24 x RG11 cables (2 to each of our 12 apartments) from dishes/boxes on the roof, over the sides of the roof, down the external building walls and then into each apartment. Simple but ugly - I think the cables also needed to be in conduits. We have a heritage listed façade and no owner was very impressed!

Edit to add: I found out a bit about what NBN Co will want in (new) MDUs: NBN-NO-GDE-0011 section 6.2 says see NBN-TE-CTO-284 which says "Provision of a minimum of P23mm nominal inside diameter, white, rigid communications conduit with draw string, from either the telecommunications room or riser/closet location to each NTD location."

So separate 23mm (ca 25mm outside) individual conduits to each apartment they want.. and it may well turn out to be a similar requirement in existing MDUs!...

Ok your situation does suck a bit... But just to be clear the answer isn't the Coalitions FTTN solution.

Just because there are some people unfortunate enough to be stuck in your situation with apartment buildings doesn't mean that the rest of Australia shouldn't get FTTH.

I think 2k per apartment to do it properly (ie not ugly conduits outside on the wall) is a bit high... if it's a more reasonable price (let's guess 1k) then over the lifespan of the FTTH (or Fibre to the apartment!) of say 25 years that's $40/year. For that $40/year you will get fibre that can deliver 1gbit+ (in 25 years i'm sure that fibre will deliver much more than just 1gbit Internet, not to mention other services) vs doing a FTTB (Fibre to the basement) and xDSL up existing copper will make out at say 100mbit.....

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I think 2k per apartment to do it properly (ie not ugly conduits outside on the wall) is a bit high... if it's a more reasonable price (let's guess 1k) then over the lifespan of the FTTH (or Fibre to the apartment!) of say 25 years that's $40/year. For that $40/year you will get fibre that can deliver 1gbit+ (in 25 years i'm sure that fibre will deliver much more than just 1gbit Internet, not to mention other services) vs doing a FTTB (Fibre to the basement) and xDSL up existing copper will make out at say 100mbit.....

Have you had plasterwork/repainting done recently? We have. Think of a reasonable price, then triple it! It's really that expensive. Still, we might be able to do some it as part of our 10 year common area repainting plan. So at least the painting part would be part of regular maintenance.

It's going problem for many city dwellers and OC's will have to decide if it's worth it in their building - individual owners will not be able to decide by themselves. For sure OC's will be looking for the least expensive, acceptable solution.

A friend is about to settle on a band new apartment in St Kilda next week. It's a 50 apartment development over 6 floors. I have just had a look at the electrical services included: Power,TV, telephone, intercom. No mention at all about data. And this is a brand new build. Unbelievable! It was all specified by the architects in November 2010.

 

[travelislife]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I am another one who hasn't had a 'landline' phone since 2004, but in all that period have had 'landline' broadband internet. I am lucky that we were able to get hooked up to the NBN as I live 5km from the Melbourne CBD but there are no ports in the exchange available for copper so our only other option would have been 3G wireless, which for a household of 4 people would not be acceptable cost wise or speed wise.

An interesting thing that is going to come out of all this if the Libs win government is the review they undertake prior to determining exactly what they will do. Having spoken to some of the lawyers involved in the NBN project it will be interesting to see if the Libs decide to rip up contracts after doing a review. As with the Libs in Vic with the Myki fiasco and East-West tunnel debacle, in both cases they have decided against tearing up existing contracts due to a multitude of things. The people I have spoken to inside the NBN company believe that the costs associated with cancelling a lot of what has already been done and the full costing of the Libs half coughd node solution (requiring land, power and clogging up our footpaths every 600m or so) will see them pull back on the promise.

The other point is that even though the project is running behind on subscriber numbers an extensive amount of the back haul cable laying has actually been done. There is always going to be lag in consumers changing over to something new as many would be on Telstra 2 year plans or the like. Also Telstra aren't interested in pushing the NBN on their customers as then they have to start paying the NBN company for the infrastructure, it is the other operators who are advertising the NBN heavily in our area.

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Just because there are some people unfortunate enough to be stuck in your situation with apartment buildings doesn't mean that the rest of Australia shouldn't get FTTH.

The way I understand it, if you are in a house you will get FTTH for free. The same might apply for some types of MDUs where an individual connection is possible. But if you live in an apartment, and in some urban areas over 80% of people do, then FTTH will not be free for you. The OC will have to pay for the internal installation which will have to be done to NBN Co's exact specifications.

And once the NBN comes into an apartment's area, the OC will have little choice but to connected it because all the existing phone and internet services will be switched off 18 months later.

NBN Co - National Broadband Network - Australia | Apartments, townhouses, office buildings and the NBN

So the connection is hardly going to be cost equitable. Apartment owners will have to pay for what home owners can get for free.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The way I understand it, if you are in a house you will get FTTH for free. The same might apply for some types of MDUs where an individual connection is possible. But if you live in an apartment, and in some urban areas over 80% of people do, then FTTH will not be free for you. The OC will have to pay for the internal installation which will have to be done to NBN Co's exact specifications.

And once the NBN comes into an apartment's area, the OC will have little choice but to connected it because all the existing phone and internet services will be switched off 18 months later.

NBN Co - National Broadband Network - Australia | Apartments, townhouses, office buildings and the NBN

So the connection is hardly going to be cost equitable. Apartment owners will have to pay for what home owners can get for free.

2011 Census results say 13.6% of people live in Flat, Unit or Apartments. So for the other ~85% of homes they should get it installed for free. It is an unfortunate/unlucky situation to be in if living in an apartment if you are going to have to pay the cost yourselves... But i'm a bit unclear on what you think the solution is for apartment residents?

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

2011 Census results say 13.6% of people live in Flat, Unit or Apartments. So for the other ~85% of homes they should get it installed for free. It is an unfortunate/unlucky situation to be in if living in an apartment if you are going to have to pay the cost yourselves... But i'm a bit unclear on what you think the solution is for apartment residents?

Yes and the percentage of apartment dwellers is growing every year. A very considerable proportion of the population!

So how about a Universal Service Obligation from the NBN too? And give all Australians (and not just 85% of them) an equitable connection?

To do that, the NBN could pay for or subsidise the internal infrastructure needed in apartment buildings - to a certain build level.

Or (and I hope this happens), permit alternative solutions in apartment buildings that don't require eg 25mm conduits running all over the common property.

NBN Co has to now pretty much ignored existing apartment installations (MDUs) so the issue hasn't really come up. I think that's all about to change.

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

2011 Census results say 13.6% of people live in Flat, Unit or Apartments. So for the other ~85% of homes they should get it installed for free. It is an unfortunate/unlucky situation to be in if living in an apartment if you are going to have to pay the cost yourselves... But i'm a bit unclear on what you think the solution is for apartment residents?

It's a bit of apples and oranges giving a figure for premises and directly relating to people.

A maybe more equitable comparison would be the number of flats/units/apartments to homes, rather than the number of people who live in them. (A Home would get just the one connection, irrespective of occupancy.)

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes and the percentage of apartment dwellers is growing every year. A very considerable proportion of the population!

So how about a Universal Service Obligation from the NBN too? And give all Australians (and not just 85% of them) an equitable connection?

To do that, the NBN could pay for or subsidise the internal infrastructure needed in apartment buildings - to a certain build level.

Or (and I hope this happens), permit alternative solutions in apartment buildings that don't require eg 25mm conduits running all over the common property.

NBN Co has to now pretty much ignored existing apartment installations (MDUs) so the issue hasn't really come up. I think that's all about to change.

Ok so you're not actually against FTTH you're just frustrated with your situation living in an apartment. Fair enough, as would I. If it makes you feel any better, where I live isn't even planned for NBN yet

I guess your suggestion of subsidising the internal infrastructure/install is reasonable. As with homes they are paying for the installation including pulling fibre through from the road to inside the house... that money should be available to 'pool' into a fund for each apartment complex. Has to be hard for them, dealing with the building owners and body corporate, each and everyone different and sitting between them and the end user...

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Interesting article here: Conroy claims first major apartment block is NBN ready | ZDNet

It's not such an issue installing the NBN in new developments. It's of course the existing apartment blocks that are the big problem for the NBN. It seems NBN Co themselves wanted a "fibre to the basement and existing copper wires from there" solution but the government rejected it. If a change of government happens then things might become different.

From the link:

"As to existing apartment buildings, Conroy claims the NBN Co is going to deliver fibre to all of those premises — battling with body corporates, drilling holes in apartment walls, nailing conduit to the side of the building if there is no room in the riser … oh, it will be a fun old time running FttP into every apartment in Australia."

Heavens!!

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Interesting article here: Conroy claims first major apartment block is NBN ready | ZDNet

It's not such an issue installing the NBN in new developments. It's of course the existing apartment blocks that are the big problem for the NBN. It seems NBN Co themselves wanted a "fibre to the basement and existing copper wires from there" solution but the government rejected it. If a change of government happens then things might become different.

This makes sense. There's little advantage to running optical all the way into individual apartments for the foreseeable future.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Interesting article here: Conroy claims first major apartment block is NBN ready | ZDNet

It's not such an issue installing the NBN in new developments. It's of course the existing apartment blocks that are the big problem for the NBN. It seems NBN Co themselves wanted a "fibre to the basement and existing copper wires from there" solution but the government rejected it. If a change of government happens then things might become different.

From the link:

"As to existing apartment buildings, Conroy claims the NBN Co is going to deliver fibre to all of those premises — battling with body corporates, drilling holes in apartment walls, nailing conduit to the side of the building if there is no room in the riser … oh, it will be a fun old time running FttP into every apartment in Australia."

Heavens!!

Yeah I saw the same article and while it could be a valid solution, the question is at what cost? What will apartment residents miss out on compared to non-apartment dwellers? What if the existing copper in your building isn't good enough?

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yeah I saw the same article and while it could be a valid solution, the question is at what cost? What will apartment residents miss out on compared to non-apartment dwellers?

Not that much. And it's being rolled out elsewhere in the world. Over 1Gbit/s speeds in apartments. And no doubt the technology will even improve. With G.fast Austrian Subsidiary A1 Achieves Data Rates of Over 1 Gbit/s via the Existing Copper Network for the First Time - Telekom Austria Group

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Not that much. And it's being rolled out elsewhere in the world. Over 1Gbit/s speeds in apartments. And no doubt the technology will even improve. With G.fast Austrian Subsidiary A1 Achieves Data Rates of Over 1 Gbit/s via the Existing Copper Network for the First Time - Telekom Austria Group

Over 1Gbit/s on G.Fast aren't real world numbers, they are lab numbers advertised by the vendor... and while it is promising look at how short the copper run has to be... 70m? 100m? In some larger apartment complexes the copper run could exceed that... And what quality/thickness is the copper that is used in apartment complexes? Is it the required 0.5mm?

It looks to me like a short term solution that isn't in the same ballpark as FTTH.

Have a read of this: G.Fast? G.cough*ed! | Sortius Is A Geek

 

[serfty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

...
It looks to me like a short term solution that isn't in the same ballpark as FTTH.

Have a read of this: G.Fast? G.cough*ed! | Sortius Is A Geek

The guy is obviously a zealot - lost much credibility in the first paragraph:

The laughable claims by Turnbull on his still unfolding plans for Australia’s National Broadband Network are reaching fever pitch recently. With Turnbull now resorting to comparing untested technology with what the current NBN can offer.

Untested? The VDSL2 standard was finalised in 2005.

As next year's likely communications minister observed, they are now getting 100mbs over 400metres of copper.

I know it's 'advertorial' but check the link in this post:

...

http://www.zhone.com/solutions/docs/VDSL2_Primer.pdf

You get 100mbps using profile 30a down to about 1600ft of copper length, we have been deploying it for 5 years and in practice that is what is achieved.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The guy is obviously a zealot - lost much credibility in the first paragraph:Untested? The VDSL2 standard was finalised in 2005.

As next year's likely communications minister observed, they are now getting 100mbs over 400metres of copper.

He's not talking about VDSL2 being untested, he's talking about G.Fast.

I'll take a look at the VDSL2 pdf you linked but VDSL2 is only 100mbit, not really in the same ballpark as Fibre even in short term. Whereas G.Fast quoted by Austman is at least a more reasonable Gbit in the right situations (100meters, good quality copper etc...)

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Over 1Gbit/s on G.Fast aren't real world numbers, they are lab numbers advertised by the vendor... and while it is promising look at how short the copper run has to be... 70m? 100m? In some larger apartment complexes the copper run could exceed that... And what quality/thickness is the copper that is used in apartment complexes? Is it the required 0.5mm?

It's a press release from an actual telco as well! 100m will cover a huge number of medium sized apartment buildings - which are a problem. High rises tend to have accessible service ducting while lateral complexes like townhouses are more likely to be suitable for individual FTTH connections. But as all the cable service suppliers know, apartment buildings are the (big) problem - and there will probably not be a single solution for them.

 

[markis10]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I'll take a look at the VDSL2 pdf you linked but VDSL2 is only 100mbit, not really in the same ballpark as Fibre even in short term. Whereas G.Fast quoted by Austman is at least a more reasonable Gbit in the right situations (100meters, good quality copper etc...)

VDSL2 is not 100Mbps anymore, that's 2006 spec, closer to 200Mbps and climbing as new coding profiles are released along with modern wiring. If you want to look at what's being achieved using POTs twisted pair copper today in most MUDs (multi unit dwellings) :



500 ft (150m) 105Mbps down /50Mbps up
1000 ft (300m) 105Mbps down /50Mbps up
1500 ft (450m) 105Mbps down /50Mbps up
2000 ft (600m) 103Mbps down /40Mbps up
3000 ft (900m) 60Mbps down /18Mbps up
4000 ft (1200m) 45Mbps down /5Mbps up

 

[sortius]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

VDSL2 is not 100Mbps anymore, that's 2006 spec, closer to 200Mbps and climbing as new coding profiles are released along with modern wiring. If you want to look at what's being achieved using POTs twisted pair copper today in most MUDs (multi unit dwellings) :



500 ft (150m) 105Mbps down /50Mbps up
1000 ft (300m) 105Mbps down /50Mbps up
1500 ft (450m) 105Mbps down /50Mbps up
2000 ft (600m) 103Mbps down /40Mbps up
3000 ft (900m) 60Mbps down /18Mbps up
4000 ft (1200m) 45Mbps down /5Mbps up

Firstly, I should deal with being called a "zealot". That's directly from Malcolm Turnbull's playbook & could be seen as slander. Just a friendly reminder. To attempt to discount my 20 years in ICT as a "zealot" shows failings in your own arguments.

Secondly, you are 100% wrong, as exemplified by Alcatel-Lucent's whitepaper on VDSL2 with Vectoring. It clearly states that even with vectoring, VDSL2 is capable of mid- to low-90's at 400m. So I'd like to see proof of your claims. The 50Mbps up & flat response range (should be an immediate falloff from 1m from the line card) is a dead give-away that you've made up the numbers.

Your figures have no basis in reality, especially considering both Alcatel-Lucent (the guys who make this gear) & thinkbroadband.com (UK equivalent of Whirlpool) show different figures:

[TABLE="width: 580"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #ECEFF6"]Distance to cabinet (metres)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #ECEFF6"]Estimated connection speed[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #ECEFF6"]coughulative%'age of premises at this distance[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100m[/TD]
[TD]100 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]200m[/TD]
[TD]65 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]20%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]300m[/TD]
[TD]45 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]400m[/TD]
[TD]42 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]45%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]500m[/TD]
[TD]38 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]60%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]600m[/TD]
[TD]35 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]70%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]700m[/TD]
[TD]32 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]75%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]800m[/TD]
[TD]28 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]80%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]900m[/TD]
[TD]25 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]85%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1000m[/TD]
[TD]24 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]90%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1250m[/TD]
[TD]17 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]95%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[TD]1500m[/TD]
[TD]15 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]98%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

That's profile 17a, if you're trying to quote profile 30a, well, that doesn't work beyond the first 200m or so, so your speeds are still false.

Within Alcatel-Lucent's documents it clearly shows that even with vectoring, 100Mbps is only a peak speed, mid- to low-90's is the average speed at 400m.

In the UK, the only 100Mbps+ VDSL2 services being offered are the 160/20Mbps bonded & vectored services. That is: 2 pairs (4 wires) AND vectoring across all pairs in the cable bundle.

Maybe if you read technical documents like me you'd realise how fallacious & false your arguments are.

EDIT: I notice someone linked a Zhone page. Hahaha, nice. Zhone are being ripped out of ISPs everywhere. About the only deployment of Zhone left is GVT in Brazil: 50Mbps down, 5Mbps up. Zhone run at a loss continually because their gear is derided by ICT professionals (almost as much as Nortel did before they went bankrupt).

Zhone's graphs are wrong (blatant false advertising), & are not supported by the ITU (you know, the guys who set the standards), Huawei, Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson, BT, DT, GVT, the list really is too long.

 

[markis10]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Firstly, I should deal with being called a "zealot". That's directly from Malcolm Turnbull's playbook & could be seen as slander. Just a friendly reminder. To attempt to discount my 20 years in ICT as a "zealot" shows failings in your own arguments.

Secondly, you are 100% wrong, as exemplified by Alcatel-Lucent's whitepaper on VDSL2 with Vectoring. It clearly states that even with vectoring, VDSL2 is capable of mid- to low-90's at 400m. So I'd like to see proof of your claims. The 50Mbps up & flat response range (should be an immediate falloff from 1m from the line card) is a dead give-away that you've made up the numbers.

Your figures have no basis in reality, especially considering both Alcatel-Lucent (the guys who make this gear) & thinkbroadband.com (UK equivalent of Whirlpool) show different figures:

[TABLE="width: 580"]
[TR]
[TH="bgcolor: #ECEFF6"]Distance to cabinet (metres)[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #ECEFF6"]Estimated connection speed[/TH]
[TH="bgcolor: #ECEFF6"]coughulative%'age of premises at this distance[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]100m[/TD]
[TD]100 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]200m[/TD]
[TD]65 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]20%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]300m[/TD]
[TD]45 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]30%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]400m[/TD]
[TD]42 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]45%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]500m[/TD]
[TD]38 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]60%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]600m[/TD]
[TD]35 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]70%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]700m[/TD]
[TD]32 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]75%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]800m[/TD]
[TD]28 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]80%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]900m[/TD]
[TD]25 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]85%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1000m[/TD]
[TD]24 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]90%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1250m[/TD]
[TD]17 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]95%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #FDF5E6"]
[TD]1500m[/TD]
[TD]15 Mbps[/TD]
[TD]98%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

LOL, I like the comments, not that I called you a zealot! Firstly your twenty years in IT would have revealed the concept of OEM/ ODM, ALU don't make most of the VDSL2, its OEM'd (not even ODM'd) from other companies, mainly in part Zyxel in Taiwan, I have current engagement with both FWIW locally as a longstanding supplier of last mile technology to the likes of transact & IInet (who both supply VDSL2) not to mention NTT Docomo, Movie Link and Global Gossip when it comes to MUDs.

The specs I gave are the current state of technology ( your appear to not include vectoring, so 2006), namely the Motorola Private Broadband T5 range, a long standing genesis line of equipment originally call Tutt Systems:

T5 PowerBroadband Solution - Motorola Solutions USA


I don't need to refer to whirlpool or its equivalent UK site for specs when I have real life experience with VDSL2 over 8 years, nothing funny about the figures, only the FUD being thrown about by googler's.