NBN Discussion

[sortius]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

LOL, I like the comments, not that I called you a zealot! Firstly your twenty years in IT would have revealed the concept of OEM/ ODM, ALU don't make any DSL, its OEM'd (not even ODM'd) from other companies, mainly in part Zyxel in Taiwan, I have current engagement with both FWIW locally as a longstanding supplier of last mile technology to the likes of transact & IInet (who both supply VDSL2) not to mention NTT Docomo, Movie Link and Global Gossip when it comes to MUDs.

The specs I gave are the current state of technology, namely the Motorola Private Broadband T5 range, a long standing genesis line of equipment originally call Tutt Systems:

T5 PowerBroadband Solution - Motorola Solutions USA


I don't need to refer to whirlpool or its equivalent UK site for specs when I have real life experience with VDSL2 over 8 years, nothing funny about the figures, only the FUD being thrown about by googler's.

Bahahaha, you link a hotel distribution device & claim it's an ISAM. Sad, really sad. If you read the fine print: 105Mbps is only achievable over 0.64 copper with no joints & utilises some coughised VDSL2 system that employs both power & data. This is not real VDSL2, it's some proprietary Motorola format & has no bearing on reality. Carrier grade VDSL2 is nowhere near that speed due to regulatory requirements on EMR. Your numbers are made up if you're attempting to state VDSL2 on the street is the same as some hotel distribution device.

This is one of the major problems with G.Fast, it breaks so many regulations that attempting to use it will take decades. Being that it utilises up to 200Mhz, FM radio is affected by it, & notching is required. The same goes for these weird & unusual internal VDSL2 systems. They rely on conditions that don't exist in the street (straight line with no joints, no corrosion, etc).

FYI: Real world tests (which, again, I can't link), those Motorola boxes are almost as slow as normal VDSL2.

The fact you are unaware of any of this dictates you have no experience with telco grade gear. Go to the Alcatel-Lucent, ITU, or Huawei sites & read their research. Then come back & tell me this Motorola box has anything to do with the NBN or telco deployments.

I'll hazard a guess you're a data cabler who's racked a few of these & think you're an expert. A 4 day course does not make you a comms expert, nor does it mean you understand the basics of TDD based technology.

 

[markis10]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Bahahaha,

I'll hazard a guess you're a data cabler who's racked a few of these & think you're an expert. A 4 day course does not make you a comms expert, nor does it mean you understand the basics of TDD based technology.

LOL, I doubt a cabler would be supplying equipment to the companies mentioned in my post, we will have to just agree to disagree

 

[sortius]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

LOL, I doubt a cabler would be supplying equipment to the companies mentioned in my post, we will have to just agree to disagree

Not really, I'll stick with Alcatel-Lucent & all the FTTN VDSL2 deployment data, you can stick with hotel devices. Can you name me a single deployment of those devices in an FTTN configuration?

 

[markis10]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Not really, I'll stick with Alcatel-Lucent & all the FTTN VDSL2 deployment data, you can stick with hotel devices. Can you name me a single deployment of those devices in an FTTN configuration?

Already have iiNet and Transact.

 

[sortius]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Already have iiNet and Transact.

Hahahaha, that's why Transact does 105/50Mbps services... oh, wait, they don't!

TransACT's VDSL2 network delivers download speeds up to 60Mbps in real-world testing. A single computer may not be able to download this fast, and your speeds may vary due to a number of factors.

From TransACT's own site. Not only that, the Motorola device you linked clearly states it's a device designed for hotels, not for a distribution network. Transact deployed 0.64mm copper to their network & STILL can't get more than 60Mbps out of VDSL2.

I know for a fact that iiNet/Transact use Ericsson MSANs, not these garbage Motorola hotel devices. You're now obviously lying, so I'm going to end with this:

If you're going to quote numbers, be sure it's not in a thread where someone who writes about telecoms' article has been linked. We get trackbacks & see the rubbish you post.

 

[markis10]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Hahahaha, that's why Transact does 105/50Mbps services... oh, wait, they don't!



From TransACT's own site. Not only that, the Motorola device you linked clearly states it's a device designed for hotels, not for a distribution network. Transact deployed 0.64mm copper to their network & STILL can't get more than 60Mbps out of VDSL2.

I know for a fact that iiNet/Transact use Ericsson MSANs, not these garbage Motorola hotel devices. You're now obviously lying, so I'm going to end with this:

If you're going to quote numbers, be sure it's not in a thread where someone who writes about telecoms' article has been linked. We get trackbacks & see the rubbish you post.

I think you will find in both cases, its Zyxel VDSL2 in use, VES1624FT-55A to be exact, if you want a Moto site, try Macquarie Uni, talk about bandwidth intensive , you did ask about VDSL2 deployments .

 

[sortius]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I think you will find in both cases, its Zyxel VDSL2 in use .

Uhh, one minute it's Motorola, now it's Zyxel. We're down the rabbit hole now.

You're obviously making this up as TransACT use Ericsson for VDSL2.

 

[DC3]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

O/T. sortius has not made any friends yet.

 

[JessicaTam]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

How is it that sortius' post count remains at 0?

 

[Shelf]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Posts in the Playground don't add to one's tally.

 

[JessicaTam]

Of course! I didn't notice that the NBN discussion was in the playground. Oops.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

It's a press release from an actual telco as well! 100m will cover a huge number of medium sized apartment buildings - which are a problem. High rises tend to have accessible service ducting while lateral complexes like townhouses are more likely to be suitable for individual FTTH connections. But as all the cable service suppliers know, apartment buildings are the (big) problem - and there will probably not be a single solution for them.

But the quality of the copper in these apartment building could be a problem, if it's not of the required quality/thickness then G.fast won't be much good....

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

But the quality of the copper in these apartment building could be a problem, if it's not of the required quality/thickness then G.fast won't be much good....

They seem to be well aware of that. The trial included "older unshielded cables, typical of most in-building cabling in Austria".

The trial conducted with A1 Telekom Austria first tested G.fast over a single, good quality cable, achieving a maximum speed of 1.1Gbps over 70 metres and 800Mbps over 100 metres. On older unshielded cables, typical of most in-building cabling in Austria, the trial achieved speeds of 500Mbps over 100 metres on a single line. However, when a second line was introduced, creating crosstalk between the two, the G.fast speed fell to only 60Mbps.

Vectoring was then enabled, removing the crosstalk and bringing the speed back up to 500Mbps over 100 metres.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

How confident are you that a majority of the copper used in private apartment complexes in Australia is of good enough quality to achieve 500 mbit over g.fast? I understand the test is over older unshielded cables, but who knows what thickness, what quality it is compared to the unknown and probably variable copper used in apartment complexes all over Australia.

What do you classify as a medium size apartment complex? How many apartments/floors? (I'm wondering if runs of more than 100m would be common in medium apartment complexes)....

 

[Austman]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

How confident are you that a majority of the copper used in private apartment complexes in Australia is of good enough quality to achieve 500 mbit over g.fast? I understand the test is over older unshielded cables, but who knows what thickness, what quality it is compared to the unknown and probably variable copper used in apartment complexes all over Australia.

What do you classify as a medium size apartment complex? How many apartments/floors? (I'm wondering if runs of more than 100m would be common in medium apartment complexes)....

I think Telstra/NBN Co would have an extremely good idea of the quality of copper cabling in apartment buildings.

As for medium sized apartment buildings - typically ones that are 3 dwelling floors or less. There are thousands of such buildings in Australia. Cable heights need to go up 2 or 3 floors (eg if the ground floor is parking) - so around 10m.

Where I live now is reasonably typical - 12 apartments, 3 floors - the building size is approximately 25m x 25m x 10m.

We have had cable companies want to install cables here. Their solution was either not acceptable (really ugly) - or extremely expensive.

I'm not saying that fibre to the basement is going to be a solution for all MDUs. But it may well be a solution for many of them.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I think Telstra/NBN Co would have an extremely good idea of the quality of copper cabling in apartment buildings.

As for medium sized apartment buildings - typically ones that are 3 dwelling floors or less. There are thousands of such buildings in Australia. Cable heights need to go up 2 or 3 floors (eg if the ground floor is parking) - so around 10m.

Where I live now is reasonably typical - 12 apartments, 3 floors - the building size is approximately 25m x 25m x 10m.

We have had cable companies want to install cables here. Their solution was either not acceptable (really ugly) - or extremely expensive.

I'm not saying that fibre to the basement is going to be a solution for all MDUs. But it may well be a solution for many of them.

I'm not so sure that Telstra/NBN would know what quality cable the apartment developers would have used when building them?

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I'm not so sure that Telstra/NBN would know what quality cable the apartment developers would have used when building them?

I reckon they could have a pretty good guess based on statistics and experience.

 

[ferni]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I reckon they could have a pretty good guess based on statistics and experience.

That would require them keeping records. They can't even keep good/accurate records for their own copper network.

 

[samh004]

Re: NBN

I have a question *raises hand* that I'm not sure if has been answered as this is a long thread already.

A few months ago I had someone here installing fibre, at least to the end of my street - about 20m from the house, and was curious what would happen now that the NBN will be working under a different government. As it hasn't connected to my house, should I still expect only copper? Surely I could buy 20m of fibre if I wanted faster speeds?

Of course I guess this is all assuming they laid the fibre in my street right back to the node, and from there to more fibre?

Thanks to anyone who can get my head around that.

 

[Gareth Beames]

Re: NBN

There were 2 NBN people out the front of my work today going from pit to pit with a reel of yellow plastic cable feeding stuff, but no fibre to see, any idea what they would of been up to?