NBN Discussion

[coriander]

It's certainly sucked the life out of my ADSL+ speeds. No NBN of any sort in the foreseeable future in my (inner Perth) suburb.

Agreed. Netflix and iView are unwatchable "buffering" between 6 and 10pm.

A couple of weeks ago I attended a meeting of five Owners Corporations (one of which I'm a committee member of) which was called to listen to a presentation by TPG. TPG are offering to install FTTB in the five towers (near Station Pier in Port Melbourne, each with about 100-120 residences) in early 2016. Basically TPG was offering to install FTTB into the towers' MDF at no charge to the OC and pay the OC $1 per day for the minimal electricity usage of their frame. No Telstra frame would be touched, anyone who wanted to stay on old phone/ADSL could do so - no impact on them at all. Residents taking up FTTB would have speed up to 100 Mbps down / 40 Mbps up (compared with 12/1 current ADSL), realistically >90/>30 complete with free VDSL2 modem and activation, unlimited internet (up/down), unlimited local national calls all for $70 per month.

Unbelievably, two of the OC committees (responsible for about 150 residences) have voted to reject TPG's offer to install FTTB. I'm told reasons given included: (a) we don't need it, ADSL is fine, (one said I have 4G which is even better); and (b) apparently this is the biggie, if FTTB is installed NBN will bypass the building and won't install FTTH. The TPG rep tried to explain that FTTH for these towers is extremely unlikely. Forward planning by NBN indicate Port Melbourne will be fibred with FTTN (which won't be as good as FTTB). One could argue that the presence of TPG FTTB would indicate NBN would have to install FTTB to be competitive in these large residential towers.

Pointing out that availability of high speed internet would boost resale value for owners and improved motivation for tenants to lease for landlords seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Unfortunately as many residents are "empty nesters", they seem reluctant to embrace new technology: worse, denying residents any choice in the type and speed on internet connection. I'm gobsmacked. At least our tower has the attitude "can we have FTTB yesterday please?".

 

[whatmeworry]

Many internet dependent businesses moved to Brunswick for the FTTP.

 

[moa999]

Coriander, the best these large apartments will get is NBN FTTB which is effectively the same as TPG offer - albeit slightly better as there are more RSPs (no major provider has signed up to TPGs wholesale offer)

A few properties in Sydney have both TPG and NBN FTTB - they are just a frame in the comms room

 

[coriander]

Coriander, the best these large apartments will get is NBN FTTB which is effectively the same as TPG offer

I know, but these people believe that locking out TPG will somehow accelerate NBN: Port Melbourne isn't even in their forward planning thus far, TPG is ready to go within 6 months. There are a group of people who only ever have used Telstra for landline, internet and mobile because it's the "official" Australian carrier. I think they feel that Malcolm's new improved NBN is the one that the community should wait for, to the exclusion of any other options. It's so frustrating!

A few properties in Sydney have both TPG and NBN FTTB - they are just a frame in the comms room

I know that, you know that - but these people seem to not understand that if you don't want VDSL2 you don't even have to know that there's the facility in their MDF. The NBN FTTB cabinet is a refrigerator, the TPG FTTB cabinet is a microvave (in comparitive sizes). Our MDF can accommodate at least four "fridges" and six or seven "microwaves" ! Aaaarggh!!

 

[moa999]

I think the best you can say is TPG provides optionality.

Anyone who doesn't want it doesn't have to take it and isn't affected. For those who do, it provides very good speeds NOW, rather than by 2020.

Glad your OC took the better route

 

[james4321]

Pointing out that availability of high speed internet would boost resale value for owners and improved motivation for tenants to lease for landlords seems to have fallen on deaf ears. Unfortunately as many residents are "empty nesters", they seem reluctant to embrace new technology: worse, denying residents any choice in the type and speed on internet connection. .

Most of these dinosaurs voted for Abbott?

 

[serfty]

Most of these dinosaurs voted for Abbott?

They likely voted for Howard, Hewson, Fraser, Gorton, Holt and even Menzies ...

 

[whatmeworry]

Even with new Copper/HFC, how long will it last before it needs replacing? I just don't see the logic of using something that is inferior which will probably need replacing in 15-20 years time whereas the new tech albeit more expensive will last longer?

My sister got an extension to her room years ago in my parents home. Couple years ago we had problems with the noise on the line. Telstra tech found the connection point of the extension was corroded due to the moisture between plaster board and brick. He thought we put the extension in, and was a but shocked that the line was put in by a Telecom Tech about 20 years ago.

Funny I was replying to this thread and my net cut out. I always noticed Foxtel offer bundles with home phones.

Modelling also shows Australia's GDP will be better off with an NBN.

The National Broadband Network (NBN) can boost Australia’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) by about 2% in the long term and, more importantly, add to our national welfare by improving real household consumption by 1.4%.
These results, based on our recent research on the NBN’s economic benefit, mean the NBN will produce a step-change in Australia’ economic activity. If the future that we have modelled comes to pass, Australia will be better off with the NBN than it would have been without it.

How the NBN could boost Australia's GDP by 2 per cent | Business Spectator

 

[moa999]

For HFC which is mostly above ground no issues, for FTTB copper in buildings no issues (my 30yo copper gives me 100/40 with margin). In all those case spending $3-5000 per property just ain't worth it..

Not sure if you are a member of Whirlpool, but FTTP installations don't necessarily go smoothly either - eg. Fibre falling out of the socket

For those in flood prone areas with FTTN not so good

 

[whatmeworry]

For HFC which is mostly above ground no issues, for FTTB copper in buildings no issues (my 30yo copper gives me 100/40 with margin). In all those case spending $3-5000 per property just ain't worth it..

Not sure if you are a member of Whirlpool, but FTTP installations don't necessarily go smoothly either - eg. Fibre falling out of the socket

For those in flood prone areas with FTTN not so good

I have heard stories about poor installations from subbies on Whirlpool. I guess everybody now just has casual/subcontractors building infrastructure. Makes me wonder whether having a permanent workforce is better then a casual workforce. I have heard reports of Road Traffic Controllers making 50-60 dollars an hour on some projects.

Floods you say? Damn I live on a slightly elevating position. However if the drains get blocked...

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

I think the best you can say is TPG provides optionality.

Anyone who doesn't want it doesn't have to take it and isn't affected. For those who do, it provides very good speeds NOW, rather than by 2020.

Glad your OC took the better route

TPG have been mandated to provide open access to their infrastructure. This required separation of their retail and wholesale divisions.

The downside of TPG's solution for FttB is that it uses VDSL spectrum, so would potentially prohibit or inhibit another provider like NBN having parallel infrastructure.

 

[whatmeworry]

Oh geez our new PM might be in trouble.

news A letter tabled in the Senate by the Government yesterday has revealed that as Communications Minister, Malcolm Turnbull explicitly asked the NBN company to create information that could help the Coalition make the case that Labor’s Fibre to the Premises model was not worth pursuing.

https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/13/turnbull-asked-nbn-co-to-generate-evidence-to-tear-down-fttp/

 

[jb747]

As opposed to the other side, who always told the truth. Politician, lips moving. Doesn't matter what colour they are.

 

[DC3]

Oh geez our new PM might be in trouble.

news A letter tabled in the Senate by the Government yesterday has revealed that as Communications Minister, Malcolm Turnbull explicitly asked the NBN company to create information that could help the Coalition make the case that Labor’s Fibre to the Premises model was not worth pursuing.

https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/13/turnbull-asked-nbn-co-to-generate-evidence-to-tear-down-fttp/

I'm shocked and horrified. Surely not.

 

[RAM]

Oh geez our new PM might be in trouble.



https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/13/turnbull-asked-nbn-co-to-generate-evidence-to-tear-down-fttp/

Surely not St Malcolm!

 

[whatmeworry]

Labor to bring back FTTP if they win the next election.

Shadow Communications Minister Jason Clare has indicated that Labor would ramp up the amount of homes connected using fibre-optic cabling as part of the $56 billion national broadband network if it wins the next Federal Election.
The Coalition under then-Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull, who is now Prime Minister, changed the NBN to use a range of cheaper and slower technologies including fibre-to-the-node, which relies on the existing copper phone line to deliver broadband.

Read more: NBN would go back to fibre optic under Australian Labor Party, says Jason Clare | afr.com
Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook
​

Meanwhile the current LNP NBN to replace old copper with new for the FTTN.

news The NBN company is deploying many “kilometres” of brand new copper in some areas to ensure that the Coalition’s Fibre to the Node model functions correctly, the Opposition claimed today, with Telstra’s copper network in such bad condition that up to “90 percent” of the copper needed to be repaired or replaced in some areas.

https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/14...and-new-copper-to-ensure-fttn-actually-works/

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Labor to bring back FTTP if they win the next election.



Meanwhile the current LNP NBN to replace old copper with new for the FTTN.



https://delimiter.com.au/2015/10/14...and-new-copper-to-ensure-fttn-actually-works/

Hate to inform you that the Labor plan went multi technology long before they lost the election, and was never a full FTTP rollout. They won't have any money to spend either should they (God forbid) ever get back in again. Luckily with Shorten at the helm, I don't have to worry about that for a while.

 

[moa999]

Labor always had Satellite for a bunch of people -- they ordered SkyMuster and its Sister, and I think FW as well

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Labor always had Satellite for a bunch of people -- they ordered SkyMuster and its Sister, and I think FW as well

They also had FTTN for MDUs (unit blocks).

Personally I think using the HFC is a stroke of genius. This technology now delivers 1Gbps in the US. I personally enjoy 130/2.5 on my Bigpond HFC right now and that's without any technology upgrades. 1000/100 speeds will be more than adequate for the next 10 years at least for residential customers. I wish there was an HFC business product. Similar speeds over fibre cost about $2-4K to install, then $800+ per month currently.

FTTN is a practical solution to get good speeds to more people faster and cheaper.

TPG is rocking the boat with a new product called Fibre400 - it's 400/400Mbps for $400/mo plus $2k install for selected 'lit' buildings. They didn't need NBNco to do that, but you can't get it end to your house either

Everyone wants more bandwidth, but to be honest people do not need it. A quality 25/5 service is perfectly adequate for most users, will support multiple simultaneous UHD streams, and video conference in FHD, plus future technologies.

Half the servers on the internet would be served by 100Mbps max. There's going to be a whole lot of disappointed people when they get a higher speed connection and notice it max out due to back haul and server limitations.

 

[whatmeworry]

Luckily with Shorten at the helm, I don't have to worry about that for a while.

People now questioning Turnbull over the NBN mess he left and oh stashing your Cash in the Cayman Islands doesn't look good.