NBN Discussion

[drsmithy]

Move the goal posts again . Now its become upgrading and rebuilding Vs government or non government ownership.

Nope.

Lets say the old copper network was still owned by the government. The NBN plan comes about. Would the government be 'upgrading' the old copper network, or re-building a new one from scratch?

It would be replacing assets it already owns. Which, as I keep trying to point out and you keep dismissing with no apparent justification, is different from building a new asset.

Compare refitting an existing building vs building a new one from scratch, for example.

Seriously , I can't see the point of your argument. Telstra was privatised. If it wasn't, the government (because of the size of the undertaking) would be establishing the NBN, perhaps though Telstra but most likely through a separate government entity. But it has been privatised, so the government (because of the size of the undertaking) is establishing the NBN through a separate government entity.

If Telstra hadn't been privatised, upgrading the existing telecommunications network that was already in public hands to a modern standard would not be the same politicised debacle it has been.

I was wondering when Abbott would get a mention .

<redacted> Off Topic and attacking

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
If Telstra hadn't been privatised, upgrading the existing telecommunications network that was already in public hands to a modern standard would not be the same politicised debacle it has been.
<snip>

So now the issue isn't government Vs private ownership, or upgrading Vs rebuilding, but rather that the issue has become politicised? Good heavens! Some way back I entered this discussion talking about the virtues of Fixed Wireless rather than waiting for optic fibre to be laid. I was happy to keep the discussion technological in correcting you that fibre wasn't laid to the FW tower, but I think nothing more on the technological side is going to come of this.

<redacted> Off Topic

 

[whatmeworry]

Thanks Malcolm Turnbull.

“Under Malcolm Turnbull’s disastrous stewardship of the NBN, the return to taxpayers on their investment has crashed from 7.1 to as low as 2.7 percent.”

https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/09/nbn-cost-blow-outs-turnbulls-fault-says-labor/

Residents of areas such as Queenstown in Western Tasmania were previously scheduled to have received a full Fibre to the Premises rollout as part of the previous Labor Government’s original NBN plan.
However, under the Coalition’s revised Multi-Technology Mix approach to the NBN, they will instead only receive satellite broadband, with the NBN company not planning to deploy any fixed broadband infrastructure to some areas of the state, despite the fact that townships such as Queenstown already have ADSL broadband over Telstra’s copper network, and several thousand local residents.

https://delimiter.com.au/2016/05/09/nbn-suspends-tasmanian-satellite-rollout-amid-political-brawl/

 

[drsmithy]

So now the issue isn't government Vs private ownership, or upgrading Vs rebuilding, but rather that the issue has become politicised?

Nope.

Good heavens! Some way back I entered this discussion talking about the virtues of Fixed Wireless rather than waiting for optic fibre to be laid. I was happy to keep the discussion technological in correcting you that fibre wasn't laid to the FW tower, but I think nothing more on the technological side is going to come of this.

Goodness. And here I was thinking your main complaint was about "bankrupting" the country, installation schedules and daring to speak the names of the people responsible for today's debacle, rather than anything technical.

<redacted> Off Topic

 

[TheRealTMA]

Someone tell me why in a hotel in Salamanca, Spain, I can get (free with room) wireless high speed connections of 40MB down and 30MB upload when even on telstra's fastest (non NBN) cable the best that is on offer is 2.5MB uploads.

Thats ts rhetorical of course.

 

[exceladdict]

Update on my install.

Initial application with exetel (via phone) they told me up to 25 working days. Two days later, multiple SMS to tell me my modem is on its way and my cutover is scheduled for tuesday, and that I need to be onsite.

Unfortunately I can't be onsite so hopefully the NBN tech finds his way to the MDF in my building's lobby.

Looking forward to providing you a "fraudband" report early next week. I am quite optimistic and unless I'm proved otherwise, FTTB seems to make sense to me for existing buildings. It would cost an arm and a leg to rewire an existing 10+ storey complex with fibre.

 

[moa999]

Unfortunately I can't be onsite so hopefully the NBN tech finds his way to the MDF in my building's lobby.
.

Suggest you check with you RSP.

With my Belong FTTB install the tech came, put a tone generator on my line from inside the apartment, then went to the MDF to ensure he had the correct line.

Then came back with a VDSL tester and confirmed sync and speed, and called the NBN to get the back end activated

(Then it took another 10 days as NBN/Belong stuffed up the activation - admittedly I was one of the very early adopters)

If you can't get 100/40 I'd be very surprised

 

[TheRealTMA]

Ok, another thanks to Malcolm. In a hotel on Douro river, 100 or so KM from Porto in Portugal and I get this.

Speedtest.net by Ookla - My Results

Download: 91.63 Mbps
Upload: 65.62 Mbps

Actually the test is limited by Speedtest's max out rate. Nowhere in Australia can I get this.

 

[Pleb Status]

Ok, another thanks to Malcolm. In a hotel on Douro river, 100 or so KM from Porto in Portugal and I get this.

Speedtest.net by Ookla - My Results

Download: 91.63 Mbps
Upload: 65.62 Mbps

Actually the test is limited by Speedtest's max out rate. Nowhere in Australia can I get this.

The download you can get in numerous places and the upload you can get with commercial fibre available in any CBD area.

 

[Moindardt]

The download you can get in numerous places and the upload you can get with commercial fibre available in any CBD area.

You have been able to get downloads like that since about 2009 and most cities would have it by now with no government spend except Labor wanted to waste $100bn instead. Woohoo. Thanks Kevin!!

 

[TheRealTMA]

You have been able to get downloads like that since about 2009 and most cities would have it by now with no government spend except Labor wanted to waste $100bn instead. Woohoo. Thanks Kevin!!

No hotel nor domestic premises in Australia has anything like this.

And irrespective of which side of the political fence you blame, if a country hotel in Portugal can do this, isn't it well past time that such performance was available to Australians? Cost of infrastructure structure is irrelevant for governments, quality and performance and is not.

 

[Moindardt]

No hotel nor domestic premises in Australia has anything like this.

And irrespective of which side of the political fence you blame, if a country hotel in Portugal can do this, isn't it well past time that such performance was available to Australians? Cost of infrastructure structure is irrelevant for governments, quality and performance and is not.

I took 2 years to change over to extreme because the phone was a business phone and had to make it domestic to get extreme. I have my speedtest from 2011 with 118mb/s if you want proof.

Australia has one of the lowest population densities in the world. Comparing it with a country with a history in the thousands of years is ludicrous. Something like 90% of Australia live in major cities towns, many of which had access to satellite or hfc 10 years ago, it just wasn't cost effective. However, it was 10x less than building the NBN, just not politically motivated.

 

[moa999]

No hotel nor domestic premises in Australia has anything like this..

Really...

If your anywhere near TPG fibre (like most CBD locations) you can get unlimited 400/400 for $399/mth

https://www.tpg.com.au/business/fibre-400

Note that this doesn't use the NBN at all (and thus avoids some of the Cross subsidy costs included in most NBN plans)

 

[Pleb Status]

You have been able to get downloads like that since about 2009 and most cities would have it by now with no government spend except Labor wanted to waste $100bn instead. Woohoo. Thanks Kevin!!

My 100Mbps connection has come at no cost to the taxpayer and is fully commercially viable without subsidies.

 

[drsmithy]

You have been able to get downloads like that since about 2009 and most cities would have it by now with no government spend except Labor wanted to waste $100bn instead. Woohoo. Thanks Kevin!!

LOL. Tell us more about how the original NBN plan was going to cost $100b and "Kevin" has prevented me from getting 100/60 over my 3km-to-the-exchange ADSL line.

 

[Moindardt]

Why? You have completely ignored every other detail, completely ignored that there was viable competitive commercially viable systems that could have done the job perfectly well. You have made it clear that no matter what anyone says, unless it backs your theories, you will completely ignore them. Where is that ignore button...

 

[drsmithy]

Australia has one of the lowest population densities in the world.

Only if you disingenuously average the population over the entire country, which is nearly entirely empty, rather than the areas where people actually live.

 

[RooFlyer]

Only if you disingenuously average the population over the entire country, which is nearly entirely empty, rather than the areas where people actually

Yes, but its a 'National' Broadband Network, isn't it? Believe it or not people 'actually live' outside the coastal strip, :shock: and even those souls in the outback are entitled to share the 'National' broadband network, so consideration of the population density across the country is important in figuring out how to best deliver it.

 

[whatmeworry]

You have been able to get downloads like that since about 2009 and most cities would have it by now with no government spend except Labor wanted to waste $100bn instead. Woohoo. Thanks Kevin!!

The original NBN plan was coming down in price everyday. Whereas Malcolm Turnbull's Frankenstein MTM, which was meant to be delivered this year, has gone from $29 billion to nearly doubling to at least the last count $56 billion.

Cost blowouts and delays had turned Labor's nation-building exercise into a political disaster. Fibre would have meant internet speeds light-years faster than copper, but at a price. The opposition's promise of an NBN delivered years sooner and $60 billion cheaper – with 25Mbps download speeds to all Australians by 2016 – sounded unbelievably good.


But two years on, most of Turnbull's August 2013 election promises are broken. His "multi-technology mix" NBN, which uses a mix of technologies including old Telstra copper cables and Telstra and Optus hybrid fibre coaxial (HFC) cables (the kind used for Foxtel connections), faces many of the problems that dogged Labor, and is arguably more politicised than it was then, with one expert describing the NBN company's relationship with media as "adversarial".
Advertisement
The 25Mbps by 2016 is not going to happen, and the overall completion date is now 2020 (originally 2019). Peak funding costs have blown out three times: from $29.5 billion before the election; to $41 billion following the Coalition government-commissioned Strategic Review; to a range of $46 billion to $56 billion in August this year.
Now, thanks to recent media leaks revealing the costs to upgrade the copper and HFC networks, many are beginning to question whether Turnbull's revamped NBN was the cheaper, quicker option.

Read more: Malcolm's mess: how the Coalition's NBN came unstuck
​

 

[drsmithy]

Yes, but its a 'National' Broadband Network, isn't it? Believe it or not people 'actually live' outside the coastal strip, :shock: and even those souls in the outback are entitled to share the 'National' broadband network, so consideration of the population density across the country is important in figuring out how to best deliver it.

Can you elaborate on why it would make any sense to include, say, all the desert areas in central Australia in a population density comparison in this context (comparison to Portugal, or most other countries with relatively even population distributions, for running fixed infrastructure) ? Do you think we might be building lots of towns and cities in them any time soon ?