NBN Discussion

It's supposedly going to be available in my area in two weeks. I'm considered giving Aussie Broadband a go, simply because they are not Telstra/Optus/TPG, and their call centre is in Oz. I'm looking forward to getting (if lucky) ADSL 2 speeds...
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Most residential customers dont need more than 25/5. I have been surviving on 3/0.5 and can still get good netflix
But the line is shared and so depends on how many people are using it for netflix, spotify, cough.....
 
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Most residential customers dont need more than 25/5. I have been surviving on 3/0.5 and can still get good netflix
But the line is shared and so depends on how many people are using it for netflix, spotify, cough.....

Yes, I know all about the lunacy that is CVC pricing. I've also used decent internet at times overseas. I'd get 100/40 if I could...and I'd use it. I expect I'll be lucky to get a fraction of that. We'll see.
 
Our area is scheduled to be available in another month or two. Currently average around 15/0.9 .... IIRC the pricing is an additional $10 for 25 and $50 for grease lightning / month.

Not sure we're the target market given we use only around 1/5 of our monthly GB allowance.
 
The reality is that the vast majority of residential customers do not actually internet speeds above 25Mbits/sec

What do residential customers use internet for:

Email (only need <1Mbit/sec)
surfing internet (<25Mbit/sec)
netflix ( 5-25Mbit/sec)
cough (same?)
spotify premium (2-5Mbit/sec)

What else?

Storing High definition family photos and video on the cloud? (25Mbits/sec will do nicely)

Sure some businesses would need higher for video conferencing, storing large files in the cloud.

Additionally as I have said before the problem is not the speed. Its who sharing the line with you.
And the other bottleneck is the time it takes for the overseas servers to send data back to consumer on the other side of the world.
NBN is only a Australian continental service. It wont make downloads any quicker because the bottlenecks outside of Australia are still there.

? future proof the NBN. Now where have i heard it before?. The computer industry is always trying to upsell the specs on the latest laptops. That is the biggest marketing bulldust around. There is no such thing as future proofing in the technology world.

True high speed internet costs a lot of $$$$. My kids school have a 100Mbit up and 100Mbit down wireless connection to a telstra backbone. Uncontended - meaning that no one else shares the connection. It costs over $3000 per month. We have actually done speed comparisons. Even with that sort of connection, the time it takes to download a 450Mb file from an overseas server took only 2 minutes quicker than my 1-3Mbit/sec home ADSL connection. Reason - the bottleneck is outside Australia. single example I know but faster internet speeds does not necessarily equate to faster downloads/uploads. No NBN providers will provide NBN at symmetrical upload and download speeds AFAIK.

I have not yet heard an argument for internet speeds faster than 25Mbits/sec for residential customers

I say BYO - "build as you go"
 
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Net speed chart.

grRBcD2.jpg
 
The reality is that the vast majority of residential customers do not actually internet speeds above 25Mbits/sec

I say BYO - build as you go.

? future proof the NBN. Now where have i heard it before?. The computer industry is always trying to upsell the specs on the latest laptops. That is the biggest marketing bulldust around. There is no such thing as future proofing in the technology world.

With a bit of Govt encouragement, and management style changes, faster internet speeds allows working from home a lot easier. Stability is just as important as speed. The social benefits of allowing someone to work from home just 1 day a week would be huge. Reduced congestion on roads and public transport, plus the time savings. Everyone benefits. I know not all jobs can allow staff to work from home, but there's a lot of jobs that could support it, as long as management moves away from a bums on seats mentality around productivity.

Fiber is as close as future proof as you can get. 10G-PON is now available which should provide enough bandwidth for the foreseeable future. Upgrading from the current G-PON is relatively cheap and easy, with the ability to run both versions over the same FSAN.

40G-PON is already being trialled in the lab.

So once the fiber is in the ground the upgrade process is relatively cheap and painless since the ITU has ensured the new verions of XG-PON can coexist running over the same FSAN.

Similar upgrades are occurring on the trunk fibre networks which have started to migrate from 10Gbps to 40Gbs wavelengths or even 100Gbps over the same fibre networks built 15+ years ago.

There's no theoretical bandwidth limit to fibre.
 
The reality is that the vast majority of residential customers do not actually internet speeds above 25Mbits/sec

What do residential customers use internet for:

Email (only need <1Mbit/sec)
surfing internet (<25Mbit/sec)
netflix ( 5-25Mbit/sec)
cough (same?)
spotify premium (2-5Mbit/sec)

What else?

Storing High definition family photos and video on the cloud? (25Mbits/sec will do nicely)

Sure some businesses would need higher for video conferencing, storing large files in the cloud.

Additionally as I have said before the problem is not the speed. Its who sharing the line with you.
And the other bottleneck is the time it takes for the overseas servers to send data back to consumer on the other side of the world.
NBN is only a Australian continental service. It wont make downloads any quicker because the bottlenecks outside of Australia are still there.

? future proof the NBN. Now where have i heard it before?. The computer industry is always trying to upsell the specs on the latest laptops. That is the biggest marketing bulldust around. There is no such thing as future proofing in the technology world.

True high speed internet costs a lot of $$$$. My kids school have a 100Mbit up and 100Mbit down wireless connection to a telstra backbone. Uncontended - meaning that no one else shares the connection. It costs over $3000 per month. We have actually done speed comparisons. Even with that sort of connection, the time it takes to download a 450Mb file from an overseas server took only 2 minutes quicker than my 1-3Mbit/sec home ADSL connection. Reason - the bottleneck is outside Australia. single example I know but faster internet speeds does not necessarily equate to faster downloads/uploads. No NBN providers will provide NBN at symmetrical upload and download speeds AFAIK.

I have not yet heard an argument for internet speeds faster than 25Mbits/sec for residential customers

I say BYO - "build as you go"

Previously from failed Nostradamus' "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." and "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

My kids are typical teenagers (I think) and we have a 200GB Cable plan with Telstra. Usually at 13/1 Megabits per second download/upload speeds ..... and it sucks. My son uploads videos to YT and is always cursing the slowness and dropouts, and if I need to do a large download for work I kick them off to reduce contention. Last month they used 400GB (admittedly it was school holidays).

So the school has 100/100, but how many kids? What is the expected peak # of connections now, next term, next year?

To presume that the internet speeds that look good now will suffice for the future is a special kind of blinkered thinking, as the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.
 
Not saying that todays internet speed will suffice for tomorrow. Todays internet is for today. tomorrows internet is for tomorrow. Dont need to get tomorrows internet today.
School is smart- they are not getting internet capacity for tomorrows' kids today. If and when they need it they will meet demand. School users (staff and kids) are very happy with internet service. No complaints of slowness or dropouts. The School is 400 students +staff.
Technology is moving so fast it does not make sense to get the best technology today and pretend that you have future proofed your internet.

depending on where you live you can get 25/25 up and down (uncontended) and 1TB/month for $1800/month (microwave long distance wireless) - actual quote for my place

Essentially the retail plans are priced as such because you have to share with so many people in your area. If you truly want high speed internet uncontended is the way to go but be prepared to pay more - a lot more. NBN is not getting a lot of people paying the highest speed plans. This is because most people don't need all that bandwidth

All plans are sold on "best speed up and down" and data volume. No one will tell you what the contention ratio is. Not even NBN.
 
Essentially the retail plans are priced as such because you have to share with so many people in your area. If you truly want high speed internet uncontended is the way to go but be prepared to pay more - a lot more. NBN is not getting a lot of people paying the highest speed plans. This is because most people don't need all that bandwidth

All plans are sold on "best speed up and down" and data volume. No one will tell you what the contention ratio is. Not even NBN.

While this is true, it does not mean you will get poor speeds.

I work for an ISP, and except for the odd NBN CVC where we've had increased demand that takes us by surprise, I can say that in general terms most of the customrs would have near full speeds.

Admittedly in the night time peak - say 2030-2230 capacity starts to get constrained, but that's the nature of an affordable shared service. The issue would certainly be easier to manage if the original 2 POI per capital city had been maintained, rather than trying to manage capacity over 121 POIs, but that's the reality we have to deal with.

If RSPs had regulated rates of return like the electricity networks, we'd be able to build networks that cater to peak demand, but unless you force customers to pay for that level of over build ie capacity for 2 hours a day, generally people wont pay for it.

Looking at it from a benefit to people working from home, most RSPs would be providing a good experience as demand between 0700-1900 is generally low.

My hope is that netflix allowing the downloading of shows will help to shift peak time demand, which benefits everyone.
 
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? future proof the NBN. Now where have i heard it before?. The computer industry is always trying to upsell the specs on the latest laptops. That is the biggest marketing bulldust around. There is no such thing as future proofing in the technology world.

If you take the term literally, maybe.

But if you take it as intended, which is "build in enough scalability to handle reasonable future growth based on known trends and where possible don't engineer yourself into a corner" then it's quite doable.

Think of it like this. While you might only build a four lane motorway today, but you know your urban growth plan will mean an eight lane one will be necessary in fifty years, you reserve enough land from the get-go for (at least) eight lanes. Because it's horrifically expensive to go back and resume land decades down the track.

I have not yet heard an argument for internet speeds faster than 25Mbits/sec for residential customers

If there's an argument for 25Mbit to handle Spotify, Netflix and cough, there's an argument for 1Gbit to handle Spotify, Netflix and cough, because it's the same argument.

If there's no argument for enough bandwidth to handle luxury goods like Spotify, Netflix and cough, then there's not really much of an argument for anything more than 256k ADSL. That'll cough all over any sort of internet usage that could reasonably considered a critical necessity, like banking, paying rates, etc.

I say BYO - "build as you go"

So, let's say you and your wife know you're going to have three kids over five years, but you're not planning on having the first one for a year. Do you buy a two bedroom flat today or a four bedroom house ?
 
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I would just like better than 1Mbps at work. Still arguing the case with management. *sigh*

You sound like my son. He laments our speed at home. Around 3 Mbps. Our rental in Mel is on NBN and was excited to get 8Mbps on a test last week and didn't tell him as he'd be a bit peeved. He's now moved out. His internet was connected last Thursday at his new place (our apartment in Adl but he is renting it) but we knew it was ADSL2. So again we didn't tell him about the NBN. He did a speed test. Texted to say it was 10Mbps. So better than NBN? I'll check NBN again next week as it doesn't seem right.

Within 2 days we got a warning to say he'd streamed half the monthly plan (50gb of 100gb plan). It's now been upgraded to 1000gb then it gets choked.
 
Look we need and should have fibre and Google 1000gbs speed. Now the bottle neck needs the Dubai people to build towers in the ocean between us and USA so we can WiFi to the USA to stop the cable lag\bottleneck.
CHINA should pay for it in exchange for our resources they have basically been given for free!
 
I'd like to know why an ISP cannot be sued over the following fact. Go to official NBN website. Has the map and clearly shows NBN available in the shaded area. Click on address and no NBN yet? Click neighbour address in same area aswell.... NBN available?
 
So the difference with the highway is that it did not cost 50+ billion dollars to build and then within 5years another 50+ billion needs to upgrade it to what it should have been in the first place.... Fibre to the place!
 
Again why did they build the NBN in peasant areas first? To iron out the bugs?
Just seems upside down the NBN setup to give access to those that cannot afford or use it to its potential?
 
I mean I sat in a shed in the middle of Hickville(country town....not real name) and watched the NBN working for a business that all it was used for was receiving word emails...... Yet 20kms from CBD in a residence..... No NBN or cable acess for you for 3 years..... Wtf?
 

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