NBN Discussion

[drron]

Re: The Lounge Wi-Fi Speedtest Thread

So what do we make of this article-
Schools see 'no benefits' in NBN | thetelegraph.com.au

 

[pshepvic]

Re: The Lounge Wi-Fi Speedtest Thread

So what do we make of this article-
Schools see 'no benefits' in NBN | thetelegraph.com.au

Another beat up about nothing. Ask the schools in Tasmania that are now connected who had almost nothing before and see what they think. Of course schools that have a comparable service today may see no immediate benefit. Over time though they'll get more capacity, more services, more opportunities, and ultimately a lower cost. I'd hate to think what they are paying for a dedicated fibre link from Telstra.

 

[drron]

Re: The Lounge Wi-Fi Speedtest Thread

Another beat up about nothing. Ask the schools in Tasmania that are now connected who had almost nothing before and see what they think. Of course schools that have a comparable service today may see no immediate benefit. Over time though they'll get more capacity, more services, more opportunities, and ultimately a lower cost. I'd hate to think what they are paying for a dedicated fibre link from Telstra.

That's fine but what about the comment that they were only using 20% of capacity.
And as for Tasmania i work there frequently.No objective evidence of improvement of productivity and all the praise for the NBN is along the lines of fantastic,its really quick downloading movies or playing online games.

 

[pshepvic]

Re: The Lounge Wi-Fi Speedtest Thread

That's fine but what about the comment that they were only using 20% of capacity.
And as for Tasmania i work there frequently.No objective evidence of improvement of productivity and all the praise for the NBN is along the lines of fantastic,its really quick downloading movies or playing online games.

Are you saying you work at NBN connected schools in Tasmania? Maybe next time you're there, go out to Smithton and other small towns where schools now have NBN and see what they think.

In the cases above they might only use 20% capacity today. This is the thing that everyone gets hung up on - it's not about today. It's about what we will need tomorrow. For once there is a publicly funded infrastructure project in Australia that is being done before we need it - most of the time in this country we wait until after we need it, when it's too late.

 

[drron]

Re: The Lounge Wi-Fi Speedtest Thread

Are you saying you work at NBN connected schools in Tasmania? Maybe next time you're there, go out to Smithton and other small towns where schools now have NBN and see what they think.

In the cases above they might only use 20% capacity today. This is the thing that everyone gets hung up on - it's not about today. It's about what we will need tomorrow. For once there is a publicly funded infrastructure project in Australia that is being done before we need it - most of the time in this country we wait until after we need it, when it's too late.

All I am trying to do is to see if there are any facts.I do work in north west Tasmania and in my job i talk to people.And yes i dont work in schools
Yes i have seen the glowing reports as to how on line learning is much better.But has that really helped the kids.
Circular Head christian school was the first school to go online with the NBN.It's Naplan scores for 2010-2012 are 930,930 and 913 in 2012.In that time they have gone from 362 children with 34 teachers to 335 children with 36 teachers.
Smithton primary went online a little later in 2010.Naplan score for both 2011 and 2012 were both 876.for 2010 it was 860.

So again it is fine to say it is helping but how?

 

[pshepvic]

Facts don't necessarily have to be numbers. What about the ability to partner with other schools that may offer subjects that a smaller school cannot, access to more up to date learning materials and curriculum, enhanced (not in a QF way) research ability, more interactive learning, or simply ensuring that schools are as up to date with technology as possible so we can actually just keep up with the rest of the world?

 

[Pvcmenace]

I manufacture and supply a vast array of products that are located in the Pits and the Exchanges, NBN rollout is inconsistant at best. There are at least three different installation sizes in up to 30+ years of infrastructure. The busiest period was Oct 2012 to Feb 2013. Now since election/budget is topic of the day very little work is being done. That's just my two bobs worth from suppliers angle.

 

[markis10]

I manufacture and supply a vast array of products that are located in the Pits and the Exchanges, NBN rollout is inconsistant at best. There are at least three different installation sizes in up to 30+ years of infrastructure. The busiest period was Oct 2012 to Feb 2013. Now since election/budget is topic of the day very little work is being done. That's just my two bobs worth from suppliers angle.

I am sure you appreciate the enhanced coverage target of an additional 1M premises announced, hang on, that's an additional 1M where construction is starting, not finishing! :shock:

 

[drron]

Facts don't necessarily have to be numbers. What about the ability to partner with other schools that may offer subjects that a smaller school cannot, access to more up to date learning materials and curriculum, enhanced (not in a QF way) research ability, more interactive learning, or simply ensuring that schools are as up to date with technology as possible so we can actually just keep up with the rest of the world?

Those are still motherhood statements.The world leaders in results with education have as a relatively common factor that education is highly valued in their culture.No surprise that Asian countries are over represented in the top 10.
Best Education In The World: Finland, South Korea Top Country Rankings, U.S. Rated Average

The UK does better than Australia and it is interesting to see why they think that is so.By attracting top level graduates into the school system and restoring order to classrooms.Interestingly they find putting more money into the system has not been shown to neccessarily improve standards.
BBC News - UK education sixth in global ranking

 

[Pvcmenace]

I am sure you appreciate the enhanced coverage target of an additional 1M premises announced, hang on, that's an additional 1M where construction is starting, not finishing! :shock:

Exactly announce additional premises actually start is another topic. Spoken to the pipe extruders they have shut their production lines down for the first time in years as they have too much stock, much like myself sitting on 8-10 week supply.

 

[phred505]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

Some of us consider telecommunications infrastructure to be one of those "necessary services".

I'll second that. My prediction is that a decade from today, the NBN will be seen as another Snowy Scheme.

Isn't it interesting that Google is pouring it's own money into lighting up (fibre to the premises, ala NBN) major cities in the US such as Kansas City; Austin, Texas etc. As a private, profitable concern with a proven track record, I don't think that they would be foolishly throwing money away.
Don't believe me?
Just "Google it"

 

[eastwest101]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

Isn't it interesting that Google is pouring it's own money into lighting up (fibre to the premises, ala NBN) major cities in the US such as Kansas City; Austin, Texas etc. As a private, profitable concern with a proven track record, I don't think that they would be foolishly throwing money away.
Don't believe me?
Just "Google it"

Supports either a pro- or anti- NBN. As a private and profitable concern Google are welcome to make any investment decision that they want, last time I checked Google was not funded by the taxpayer funds, and is not a government mandated monopoly where competing infrastructure and capacity is banned or being dismantled. If they make a go of it - good on them - if it fails then their shareholders take a bath.

Its also interesting that nearly every advanced economy has had its telecommunication industry privatized with many competing private companies risking their own shareholder value in competition with eachother and using a variety of different technologies.

Whats the track record of the current goverrment? And the current minister for communications? If you are not sure - just google or conroy the phrase "captain red underpants."

Sorry to mods if all OT.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[phred505]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

Supports either a pro- or anti- NBN. As a private and profitable concern Google are welcome to make any investment decision that they want, last time I checked Google was not funded by the taxpayer funds, and is not a government mandated monopoly where competing infrastructure and capacity is banned or being dismantled. If they make a go of it - good on them - if it fails then their shareholders take a bath.

Its also interesting that nearly every advanced economy has had its telecommunication industry privatized with many competing private companies risking their own shareholder value in competition with eachother and using a variety of different technologies.

Whats the track record of the current goverrment? And the current minister for communications? If you are not sure - just google or conroy the phrase "captain red underpants."

Sorry to mods if all OT.

My comments were apolitical, as far as I could make them; why such a rabid response? And, you seem to miss the main point - the NBN is an infrastructure; retailers will buy and resell bandwidth/capacity. So, how is this a monopoly?

 

[eastwest101]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

My comments were apolitical, as far as I could make them; why such a rabid response? And, you seem to miss the main point - the NBN is an infrastructure; retailers will buy and resell bandwidth/capacity. So, how is this a monopoly?

I agree that it is infrastructure, we just disagree on the cost and the way it has been justified, politics aside. As do a lot of people whom have posted here before.

Two questions. Whom do these retailers buy access and capacity from? What other alternative providers will there be?

Unless I am mistaken - they all will have to buy access and bandwidth from the NBN.

Or put it another way. Hypothetical - "the government recently announces a ban on commerical arlines flying from Sydney to Melbourne, only Qantas is allowed to fly this route, but you can buy a ticket SYD-MEL from any travel agent in australia that you want. Whichever you choose you will end up on the exact same Qantas aircraft."

Is that your definition of competition?

 

[oz_mark]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

Is that your definition of competition?

They didn't like Telstra as a monopoly provider, so they replaced it with a different monopoly provider.

 

[drron]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

I'll second that. My prediction is that a decade from today, the NBN will be seen as another Snowy Scheme.

Isn't it interesting that Google is pouring it's own money into lighting up (fibre to the premises, ala NBN) major cities in the US such as Kansas City; Austin, Texas etc. As a private, profitable concern with a proven track record, I don't think that they would be foolishly throwing money away.
Don't believe me?
Just "Google it"

Are you actually critiscising the NBN.Google is rolling their system out faster and at less cost than the NBN.
EG Kansas City-project announced 30/3/11.Available to all residents 1/9/12.Cost for 1GB/1GB per second-$70 a month.
Looking at iinet cost for NBN is $80 per month for 100/40 Mbps and a 100 gb download limit.
Google Fiber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
National Broadband Network - NBN - iiNet Australia

So the Google example suggests the NBN is not so great on cost/benefit analysis.

 

[james4321]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

So the Google example suggests the NBN is not so great on cost/benefit analysis.

But you would have to get a cost from Google to roll out in Australia to be able to do that comparison surely?

 

[eastwest101]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

But you would have to get a cost from Google to roll out in Australia to be able to do that comparison surely?

Actually - it should have had clear and unambigious tender process plus an impartial cost benefit analysis and a budget set out by the minister responsible, seeing as it was his governments policy and was spending public funds to build it.

 

[drron]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

But you would have to get a cost from Google to roll out in Australia to be able to do that comparison surely?

The NBN is the costliest high speed broadband project in the world on a per capita basis by a long way.Now sure Australia is a big country and rollout will be dearer but all the more reason to have an audited business plan which they have not done.yes they have a business plan but wont submit it to the Productivity Commission.You really do have to ask Why Not?

 

[phred505]

Re: What's your prediction on the Australian Dollar?

The NBN is the costliest high speed broadband project in the world on a per capita basis by a long way.

Could you provide your source to back up this assertion?