NBN Discussion

[DaveB]

Optus broadband cable.

Cheers, will see if changing channels improves signal as same issues with talking with other daughter in Tauranga where their speeds are woeful.

 

[Quickstatus]

wifi channel settings are in your modem.

Channel 1,6,11 do not overlap and seem to be the best for ensuring best connections. Makes a difference if you can see a lot of your neighbours Wifi SSID on your smart device.
Maybe go 5Ghz if you have it.

 

[drsmithy]

Wife and I were facetiming eldest daughter in Toronto this morning with the signal breaking her voice.

Told her it can't be our local Sydney signal as testing 101.72 download and 1.80 upload.

Well and truly had tail between legs being told her Toronto signal was reading 339.84 Mbps download and 123.64 upload. Made even worse given her unlimited data for $45 + taxes monthly.

Unfortunately there's a lot of internets between the two of you that could be responsible.

The problem is unlikely to be at the endpoints unless it happens consistently.

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes several bottlenecks especially international. Interested to know what your ping test if you changed the target server to Canada Ontario Rogers...

Here is Sydney to Toronto Ontario Canada Rogers server ping test: Note the latency (ping time).




Here is Sydney to Sydney Telstra server ping test:


Sydney to Tauranga NZ ping test:

 

[whatmeworry]

NBN CEO refusing to lower wholesale prices but instead laying the blame on ISP.

However, the company appears to have ruled out any substantial further review of its price scheme and instead launched a full-scale attack on internet providers, laying the blame for poor-performing services squarely with them.
Morrow said there was a clear “land grab” mentality at ISPs as they sought to sign on as many customers as possible, with apparently little regard for service quality.

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-...desktop&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes, Morrow under a lot of pressure to ensure a return for government's equity. A writedown will be politically bad for Turnbull, even though the whole financial setup can be sheeted home to Conroy and Rudd.

Government should realise that if there was ever a commercial return to be made, telcos would have be in it from the start. Thats why Telstra built all those NextG towers in record time and they built it first then said "hey guys we got this new mobile fandangle thing - you will like it". Rather than the usual government thing which is to announce (sometimes several times over several election cycles) an amazing fandangle thing they are going to do but then build an elcheapo facsimile

Now Minister Fifield ordering an ACMA review into customer issues at NBN. He still does not understand the real issue is not the customers bad experiences...

 

[drsmithy]

Government should realise that if there was ever a commercial return to be made, telcos would have be in it from the start. Thats why Telstra built all those NextG towers in record time and they built it first then said "hey guys we got this new mobile fandangle thing - you will like it". Rather than the usual government thing which is to announce (sometimes several times over several election cycles) an amazing fandangle thing they are going to do but then build an elcheapo facsimile

Wow. That's just a tad misrepresentative of reality.

The "elcheapo facsimile" exists because the current Government that built it chose to build it that way - rather than the "amazing fandangle thing" that a different Government had promised - for political reasons.

When the NBN is eventually hocked, Telcos will be queuing up to buy it just like they were with Telstra (and just like with Telstra, selling it will be a bad idea). Their worry was the risk and capital outlay, not the long-running return from monopoly infrastructure. Same way they hate paying to build things like tunnels and airports, but love owning them afterwards. Private industry is generally extremely risk-averse and focused on short-term profitability, wholly unsuited to handling large infrastructure projects, and especially anything that needs a universal access mandate.

 

[Quickstatus]

Wow. That's just a tad misrepresentative of reality.

The "elcheapo facsimile" exists because the current Government that built it chose to build it that way - rather than the "amazing fandangle thing" that a different Government had promised - for political reasons.

When the NBN is eventually hocked, Telcos will be queuing up to buy it just like they were with Telstra (and just like with Telstra, selling it will be a bad idea). Their worry was the risk and capital outlay, not the long-running return from monopoly infrastructure. Same way they hate paying to build things like tunnels and airports, but love owning them afterwards. Private industry is generally extremely risk-averse and focused on short-term profitability, wholly unsuited to handling large infrastructure projects, and especially anything that needs a universal access mandate.

Essentially we are on the same page

 

[Oneworldplus2]

You may need me to wish you good luck with that Oneworldplus2.
Well here it is: "Good luck with your NBN"

Thank you ;-)

HFC was worked on by 2 NBN gentlemen yesterday.

It is still in limbo though.

We'll get there one day...

 

[moa999]

Yes, Morrow under a lot of pressure to ensure a return for government's equity. A writedown will be politically bad for Turnbull, even though the whole financial setup can be sheeted home to Conroy and Rudd.
...

The write down goes a lot further than that..

The reality is, even if you ignored Australia's layouy, our construction costs (labour, efficiency and oh&s etc) are a lot higher than the row.

The NBN will be lucky to end up with a positive IRR.

The only way to change this is for the govt to gift/ write off debt (which it currently can't afford) or increase prices even more (which is half the problem).

High users (and mostly the ISP commentary) want to increase AVC (fixed charge) and reduce CVC (variable charge)....

(Effectively want granny to pay $50 for using 10Mb for VOIP calls while they pay $80 for 10Tb of P*rn)

This will just result in more people (those low data users) dropping fixed lines/NBN and using mobile only - which further increases the fixed cost pressure

 

[Quickstatus]

I go back to my kids school who installed a Non NBN fixed wireless service
Uncontended 100/100. $3k/month. Using the nbn pricing model that's a CVC of anywhere from $20-$25 / Mbps .. add in the other costs plus profit.
Does not matter how you dice it, the only way to make NBN financially viable is to cram as many people into each CVC as possible because the vast majority of people really only want to pay $50-100 for internet. Just like the vast number of people only pay $70 for mobile service However the expectations have been raised that they will get reliable and faster internet but the main price point is the same...it just does not compute.

To reduce the contention plaguing many nbn users Bill Morrow suggests the telcos buy more CVC but this just pushes the price up. But even if people buy it the contention remains. FTTN 200 users per 1 Gbps backhaul to POI. That's 5 Mbps at peak time if all 200 users are online downloading at the same time. For that Node a CVC of 1000Mbps @ $15/Mbps CVC = $75 per AVC wholesale wholesale. Add in all the other costs plus profit.....means people are generally paying more for the same experience.

Some say FTTN backhaul can be upgraded to 10Gbps = 50Mbps each user. That's $750 CVC per AVC....
P
Simplistic I know - lots of FTTN back hauling to a POI hopefully averaging out to better contended speed.

 

[moa999]

That's the issue.. real uncontended bandwidth ain't cheap.

A few years ago was with someone paying close to $800 for a 20/20 AAPT mid-band ethernet service.. and it still had data limits

 

[Quickstatus]

Farmer builds his own FW tower:

When a farmer's internet speed was slow, he built a private 53m tower

 

[marki]

Full Fibre could cost as little as Fibre to the curb.



https://itwire.com/telecoms-and-nbn...will-cost-about-as-much-as-fttdp-experts.html

Saw this the other day you want Fibre with that!?


http://www.smh.com.au/business/do-y...at-nbns-apartment-upsell-20170714-gxbil6.html


Actually interesting read!!

Still not decided on the NBN switch yet , sitting on ADSL 2+ doing more research!

Reading this thread helps

 

[Quickstatus]

Welcome back Marki!

 

[cove]

I am guessing there are not too many on this thread who have been asked to sign non disclosure statements following a negotiation with NBN. It would be good for someone to get these released under a freedom release application.

 

[RAM]

The 'back of a napkin' business case is as accurate as it sounded unfortunately.

Just like the many examples of PPP such as the Cross-city tunnel, Lane Cove Tunnel, Brisconnections, Sydney Airport Link etc etc.

If interest rates rise 2% then I doubt ANY auditor will sign off on the NBN as a going concern - then the fat will hit the fan.

Running the numbers and it is more ugly than what happened to Optus leading to the Singtel bailout.

 

[Quickstatus]

The 'back of a napkin' business case is as accurate as it sounded unfortunately.

Just like the many examples of PPP such as the Cross-city tunnel, Lane Cove Tunnel, Brisconnections, Sydney Airport Link etc etc.

If interest rates rise 2% then I doubt ANY auditor will sign off on the NBN as a going concern - then the fat will hit the fan.

Running the numbers and it is more ugly than what happened to Optus leading to the Singtel bailout.

The government thought they knew better when the commercials told them they could not see a commercial upside. Only someone with easy unconditional access to someone else's money with no recourse could build it. They will hock it. Turnbull won't as its bad politically for him. Shorten will (if/when he wins) because its bad politically for Turnbull. Ironic for Conroy/Rudd - Turnbull gets the blame when it comes back onto the Govt balance sheet

..............

ACMA has approved a 2x NBN FW tower licenses @ 1.2 km heading 80[SUP]0[/SUP] and 3.3km heading 120[SUP]0.[/SUP] One of these has a 150Mbps (27.5Mhz bandwidth) backhaul to the other. Im not sure which one is which. Not a lot of backhaul for up to 330 AVC but NBN will just blame telcos for not buying enough CVC. The viewsheds on the ACMA site suggest I will get signal from both which is good. I can't prefer one over the other. NBN will just allocate me to one. From other forum discussions it always seem to the the furthest one away though at 3.3km its pretty good. My place is approx the same altitude as the base of these towers And I should have LOS. I, planning to get the FW service from a differnet provider than the current one for ADSL. That way I can still connect to the outside world in case there is a stuffup with the implementation. I really dont want to have to ring the local MP as he is hopeless.

 

[moa999]

Running the numbers and it is more ugly than what happened to Optus leading to the Singtel bailout.

Bailout????

UKs C&W decided to sell due to global issues and SingTel was highest bidder on a very competitive auction

 

[Quickstatus]

Been reading this:

http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco2/documents/network-design-rules.pdf

In the FW section page 40 onwards....

Unless my comprehension is incorrect, up to 8 FW towers each servicing up to 330 connections (total 2640 connections or AVC) will each microwave backhaul to a hub tower which either has 1Gbps fibre or to a hub which microwave backhauls at 900Mbps to a tower with fibre

That means up to 2640 connections may bottleneck into a 900Mbps. Haha. No amount of CVC will fix this at Netflix time.

The reason it's 900Mbps is because an ACMA license bandwidth is 27.5Mhz which roughly equates to 150Mbps. Some NBN backhaul antenna are 27.5Mhz bandwidth, others are 55Mhz (=300Mbps). So if you see a FW tower with 3x55Mhz antenna that is a hub tower with a microwave backhaul

Im hoping in my FW area most will be using FW-NBN just for VOIP.