NBN Discussion

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TheRealTMA said:
Ah, pity I can't vote for Tony Windsor. "Do it once. Do it right. Do it with fibre."

Think I'll donate to his campaign...

http://video.dailytelegraph.com.au/v/467394/Do-it-once-do-it-right-do-it-with-fibre-Tony-Windsor
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Great 'quote' from Windsor that ignores the realities

For most of these rural properties the Labor/Liberal NBN is the same - fixed wireless or satellite . A full fibre connection to many homes is in the $'000,000s range -- same reason many don't have town water or sewer. It's about the most cost effective solution, and even labor gets it for rural properties.

The difference is mainly in town - whether it's FTTP or FTTN. Most won't notice the difference. There is a lot wrong with the NBN rollout, both sides, but it's not in rural areas
 
Well Bumbling Barnaby Joyce certainly got hammered on QA. If you do it with FTTN, you will have to rip it out in 5-10 years time for Fibre.

Questioner Elizabeth Wakeford objected to Mr Joyce's comment that download speeds of 25mbps were good enough.


"It's a bit of a slip to say that well 25mbps is fine for us."

National Farmers' Federation vice-president Fiona Simson also objected to Mr Joyce's comment.
"Just because you are remote, Barnaby, you still need more than 25mbps."

Meanwhile, the man vying for Mr Joyce's seat, independent candidate Tony Windsor, received a rousing applause when he intervened, calling for Labor's original plan of a fibre to the premises NBN.
"Do it once, do it right, and do it with fibre," he said.
"It never has been about cost. It has always been about politics.
"Because one side decided to go for the top standard, the other side had to oppose it - that's one of the great tragedies of this."

Read more at Joyce slammed over NBN comments - 9news.com.au
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Meanwhile rain has flooded the FTTN at Bowral.

small-696x522.jpg


news Heavy rain appears to have flooded Fibre to the Node infrastructure in the rural New South Wales town of Bowral, potentially causing a dangerous situation for local residents and causing outages with the local National Broadband Network.
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However, most of the FTTN infrastructure being deployed under the Coalition, in particular, is “active” infrastructure. It requires an active electrical power connection. The 30,000 FTTN cabinets, or ‘nodes’ currently being deployed around Australia also come with battery backup capability within the cabinet.
Such infrastructure is easily disabled by water ingress.
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https://delimiter.com.au/2016/06/27/photos-rain-floods-nbn-nodes-bowral/
 
Good interview with Nick Ross of PC World and the 'chaos' of the MTM.

https://soundcloud.com/streetspeed/nick-ross

Meanwhile the who designed Malcolm Turnball's MTM has resigned.

THE National Broadband Network’s architect in charge of rolling out copper-based internet connections in Australia has resigned and will leave the company the day before the Federal Election.

NBN chief architect and telecommunications veteran Tony Cross will leave his role this Friday after spending four years designing the Multi-Technology Mix network introduced by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull that promised to deliver the NBN “sooner, cheaper and more affordably”.
However this copper-based network was recently slammed as a “colossal mistake” by the first NBN boss, Mike Quigley, who said it was in “shortsighted, expensive and backward-looking” and would ultimately cost billions of dollars to fix.
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NBN chief architect quits the day before the federal election

Meanwhile Australia has dropped from 30th to 60th in net speeds across the world.

Since news arose this week that Australia's internet speed has dropped from 30th in the world to 60th, the NBN has been the third most discussed topic on Reddit. But while the public are speaking up Eggleton said politicians have remained too quiet.
"They don't want to talk about it because the reality is both parties have made a mess of it," Eggleton told HuffPost Australia.

"Everyone is just totally disappointed with what's happened and what's going to happen and the rest of the world is moving ahead at light speed. Most Australians have not benefited from the NBN and are unlikely to benefit from the NBN for another five years."
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What The Hell Is Going On With The NBN?
 
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TPG FTTB is a much better option these days. It's cheaper and faster.
I have just recently been connected, and my speeds are leaving my NBN friends in the dust. And they're paying more for a capped service, while TPG is unlimited!
 
dorkhun said:
TPG FTTB is a much better option these days. It's cheaper and faster.
I have just recently been connected, and my speeds are leaving my NBN friends in the dust. And they're paying more for a capped service, while TPG is unlimited!
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If you're in one of the buildings that supports it, absolutely it's far cheaper for 100/40.

Although some of TPGs international routes aren't great
 
We have TPG running a big fibre roll out down the main road in Canning Vale so I guess they don't think the NBN is a complete answer in our Perth industrial area.
 
What is this NBN thing you all talk about?

Around our area we get lots of ads about it but it's not actually available or likely to be so in the foreseeable future.
 
All I hear about TPG is that their IINET service has been reduced to cough and Perth businesses are very upset. Seems like they got rid of too many staff after the takeover.
 
dorkhun said:
TPG FTTB is a much better option these days. It's cheaper and faster.
I have just recently been connected, and my speeds are leaving my NBN friends in the dust. And they're paying more for a capped service, while TPG is unlimited!
Click to expand...

TPG can kill NBN in the FTTB space.

Most people don't understand the cost structure surrounding NBN.

You're NBN port will cost anywhere from $24-38 per month, and the CVC cost is $17.50 per 1Mbs per month. Throw in back-haul costs to your internet provider and it's very hard to provision the network in a cost effective way. Throw in the netflix effect and it's a real mess to try and provide a decent internet experience during the night time peak. It's a similar issue to peak electricity use, though in the case of NBN you can move towards slow speeds rather than brownouts.

TPG don't have to follow the ridiculous AVC + CVC cost structure of NBN. They can allow ISPs to have a more ADSL cost structure where adding customers lowers average cost faster than it does on the NBN since it doesn't have to have a linear cost growth of the CVC.

This is why areas that have TPG FTTB rolling out have NBN madly chasing them. Funny how in opposition the Liberals were all for the private sector being involved, but now they're rolling out broadband to compete against the private sector in the ACT to compete against the transACT network and where TPG has launched their FTTB product.
 
moa999 said:
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Great 'quote' from Windsor that ignores the realities

For most of these rural properties the Labor/Liberal NBN is the same - fixed wireless or satellite . A full fibre connection to many homes is in the $'000,000s range -- same reason many don't have town water or sewer. It's about the most cost effective solution, and even labor gets it for rural properties.

The difference is mainly in town - whether it's FTTP or FTTN. Most won't notice the difference. There is a lot wrong with the NBN rollout, both sides, but it's not in rural areas
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For truly rural areas then yes, not a huge difference between the the original and current nbn, though there seems to have been an increase in the satellite customer base under the liberals.

i work for an ISP and we're getting a lot of customers who'd like a 50Mbs plan on FTTN and either have to accept something in the low to mid 40s for that, or downgrade to a 25/5 plan instead. The argument people aren't willing to pay for the higher speed plans is not actually correct.

We have customer unable to get the 100Mbs plans they're willing to pay for, and downgrade them to 50Mbs - once against lost revenue for the NBN.

The fact is these reduced speeds are baked in for years to come. Unless you go through the high cost of increasing node density, and there's reports of nodes being used to connect 2 pillars to save on costs or because of issues getting connected to electricity, you're also increasing the likelihood of lower sync speeds for customers.

For a govt who promised greater transparency it's disgusting they wont release the data from the trials of skinny fiber and how that could make FTTdP a cost effective compromise between FTTN and FTTP.

Can you believe NBN will not release a list of authorised modems for NBN? NBN have a policy that if you do not use an authorised modem they will not consider a stability fault as a fault. But how do you know if you have an approved modem connected?? Good question, with no real answer. The only way is to have a underpowered modem supplied by your ISP, usually with added costs or being forced into a long term contract.

NBN have also admitted that recent minor flooding in areas eg bowral - have caused damage to the nodes and loss of internet to areas lasting days. here's a node installed on the edge of the tamar river and a flooded one in bowral. FTTP doesn't have active gear for most of the network so is less likely to fail during storms.

node-2-1.jpg small-696x522.jpg

We have the Govt complaining of Labor having nearly 250K of customers on the intermim satellite when it was contracted for just 48K, and when the govt did their review they reduced the number of subscribers down to just 48K, yet, three years later NBN is using the total satellite footprint as their headline “Premises Passed and Ready for Service” figure. Got tto love the hypocrisy there.

Oh and for kicks here's what nbn will consider as an acceptable FTTN service ie up to 5 drops of internet per day

Screen-Shot-2016-03-10-at-1.45.42-am.jpg

The NBN company is insisting that end users must use an approved modem, certified to be working by an NBN service provider, in order for a fault to be lodged.
Despite the requirement of an approved modem, nbn has refused a freedom of information request to provide a list of modems that are approved for connecting to the NBN network to the public. Nor can members of the public request models of modems to be tested for registration.
This forces all end users to purchase the low-end, consumer-grade modem approved by their service providers such as the cheap sagecomm f@st modem line-up preferred by some major carriers. The flaw in this is that many sagecomm modems have a ton. of. security.exploits.
[h=4]$50 No Fault Found charge if problem is beyond the network boundary[/h]Unlike on its fibre network, nbn will charge end users $50 for a “No Fault Found”call-out fee for the FTTN and FTTB network where the technician identifies no faults on the line or if the fault is within the end user’s house (for example, a bridge tap inside the home).
This fee, similar to one currently charged by Telstra, is set to discourage end users from lodging faults and risk paying a $50 No Fault Found charge if a fault is not identified.
 
Agree not releasing a list of NBN approved modem is silly - albeit the Whirlpool forum has a good Wiki.

Mind you I suspect the RSPs prefer only having one or two devices to support where they can upgrade the firmware.

I'm in a 20-storey apartment building and think it's a great solution - was installed very quickly and no ugly hallway fibre runs. Everyone can get 100/40 (although at the moment I only pay for 25/5) and it's a pretty simple upgrade to G.fast and xg.fast for likely gigabit speeds in the future.

I do feel sorry for those who will be stuck on 1km FTTN lines and agree that the rollout should be designed to minimise line length (to enable G.fast at a minimum in the future) rather than minimising the number of nodes.

I also don't see why they have bothered with battery backup at the nodes when they are not bothering with battery backup at the modem. The old POTS system has always been supported by massive battery banks at the exchange but with FTTN we move this to the node, and with FTTP to the home (many of whose batteries have failed in 18mths with many complaints). Given mobile penetration better to focus on batteries at cell towers and accept that if the power goes out so does your phone/internet

But the reality is FTTP v FTTdp v FTTN is a debate about upfront cost vs operating cost v likely lifetime v upgrade options v political issues, albeit neither FTTP nor FTTN has met cost projections to date.
 

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