New a330 Angled Flat Business Class

[Justchecking]

Of course this bird won't fly domestic routes long, they didn't put beds in it to make the PER commuters happy. I'm putting money on these new birds being mostly offshore once enough of them arrive and most domestic routes seeing the old ex-EK ones the majority of the time. Also predict a lot of 'I booked on one of international A330's and got the coughpy domestic one' posts. God help the 737's whom I fear will become the unwanted embarassing uncle of the fleet.

 

[moa999]

AusBT with some better photos...
Virgin Australia picks Singapore's regional seat for new A330 - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

 

[777]

Does anyone really expect an airline with 5 different fleet types to have 5 identical J seats? Is there any airline in the world that actually does that?

I recognise the consistency is all over the place at the moment but i think the solutions on the hard product are documented and being implemented.

1. The 777 Fleet J product will stay as is but is being given some makeovers (as already shown)
2. The A330 new J product is now on 2/4 birds owned VA and this will soon be 4/6. The article in the Australian says clearly "

pre-existing Emirates configuration but will eventually be converted to the new product" although no date is given so we are right to be reasonably skeptical about how long this might take.
3. The 737 has a standard J seat on all new deliveries and the "rogue" 737-700s are leaving the fleet as new deliveries arrive.
4. The EJets have a new J seat and configuration announced and it is being implemented -.
5. The ATR's have no J.

Now, how many different types of J seats does QF have at the moment? How long have they had rogue 737s flying around without a proper business class (it seems people want to seemingly forget that and imagine that VA has a monopoly on inconsistency)?

I'm not here to defend everything VA does. I think their IFE decisions have been awful (seriously, they got rid of LTA in the pointy end even where it's installed up the back? They got rid of in seat audio channels? They were too cheap to get drop down bloody TV's? ... The wifi promised would have been great compliment to any of those and they wouldn't have broken the bank).

But the big picture though is that VA are in a process of transformation that takes time.

They're making stuff ups along the way and we're right to criticise them but let's also balance that out with some realism here. They are balancing a bunch of factors: take the A330 J class as obvious example -should they have waited another year or two to introduce the service now the new cabin product is ready or were they right to get into the market and then redo the cabins now the new product is out? I would argue the "consistency problem" is the lesser evil there.

Anyhow... I'm unlike some around here i'm broadly of the view that the changes are getting better, product is improving, and things are getting better.

​

 

[maninblack]

So, l take it that you'd fly on these to HNL (VA J), if the price was similar to QF J? No double sc either ()

Absolutely a no-brainer, but I don't think it's in VA's plans. (and if it were it would simply not be $10k)

 

[Justchecking]

I don't mean to come across as overly critical, like you I think they are interesting changes. My posts are more about the amusement of how easily the AFFers seem to become disenchanted with Virgin after the initial rush of ZOMG! No-one is expecting the exact same product across all aircraft types but I think it's fair comment to say at the moment there is little commonality apart from seat colours amoung the various aircraft. It's also a little hard to see where all this is going when Virgin make little comment about the future plans (perhaps for obvious reasons) and instead just unveil yet another completely different aircraft. We are all just speculating on the reasons for this and that.

It's also interesting that what was almost a greenfield operation 2 years ago (high fleet commonality and consistency) has now become a really complicated and variable airline product. To what end?

 

[LiamR]

Does anyone really expect an airline with 5 different fleet types to have 5 identical J seats? Is there any airline in the world that actually does that?

I recognise the consistency is all over the place at the moment but i think the solutions on the hard product are documented and being implemented.

1. The 777 Fleet J product will stay as is but is being given some makeovers (as already shown)
2. The A330 new J product is now on 2/4 birds owned VA and this will soon be 4/6. The article in the Australian says clearly "

pre-existing Emirates configuration but will eventually be converted to the new product" although no date is given so we are right to be reasonably skeptical about how long this might take.
3. The 737 has a standard J seat on all new deliveries and the "rogue" 737-700s are leaving the fleet as new deliveries arrive.
4. The EJets have a new J seat and configuration announced and it is being implemented -.
5. The ATR's have no J.

Now, how many different types of J seats does QF have at the moment? How long have they had rogue 737s flying around without a proper business class (it seems people want to seemingly forget that and imagine that VA has a monopoly on inconsistency)?

I'm not here to defend everything VA does. I think their IFE decisions have been awful (seriously, they got rid of LTA in the pointy end even where it's installed up the back? They got rid of in seat audio channels? They were too cheap to get drop down bloody TV's? ... The wifi promised would have been great compliment to any of those and they wouldn't have broken the bank).

But the big picture though is that VA are in a process of transformation that takes time.

They're making stuff ups along the way and we're right to criticise them but let's also balance that out with some realism here. They are balancing a bunch of factors: take the A330 J class as obvious example -should they have waited another year or two to introduce the service now the new cabin product is ready or were they right to get into the market and then redo the cabins now the new product is out? I would argue the "consistency problem" is the lesser evil there.

Anyhow... I'm unlike some around here i'm broadly of the view that the changes are getting better, product is improving, and things are getting better.

​

Could not agree with you more, 777. You hit the nail right on the head.

 

[777]

I don't mean to come across as overly critical, like you I think they are interesting changes. My posts are more about the amusement of how easily the AFFers seem to become disenchanted with Virgin after the initial rush of ZOMG! No-one is expecting the exact same product across all aircraft types but I think it's fair comment to say at the moment there is little commonality apart from seat colours amount the various aircraft. It's also a little hard to see where all this is going when Virgin make little comment about the future plans (perhaps for obvious reasons) and instead just unveil yet another completely different aircraft. We are all just speculating on the reasons for this and that.

It's also interesting that what was almost a greenfield operation 2 years ago (high fleet commonality and consistency) has now become a really complicated and variable airline product. To what end?

Hmm. Two statements i don't agree with in that:

"Virgin make little comment about the future plans" - well, i would argue that most of the things that people complain about here (IFE, consistency of J seats, the buggy IT system, etc) are ones where the future plans are actually announced and very clear. They just take time to implement and (as with the Wifi based IFE) in some cases the plans are disappointing. [OTTH: some things like the catering issues have had no announcements beyond some minimal acknowledgement of the issue]

"what was almost a greenfield operation 2 years ago (high fleet commonality and consistency)" - well, i don't really agree with that either. Two years ago VA had a very complex mix of legacy systems (IT), fleet types (Remember the E170s and soon-to-be gone 737-700s?), IFE (LTA, Red, In Flight audio, nothing), Financial constraints (eg. some pretty major losses and limited capital), delivery slot issues (it's taken til now to get a new A330 for example hence needing to start with the 2nd hand Emirates birds) and likely countless other issues than we're not privy to.

I would argue that they have done fairly well from that basis. They have, out of necessity, started with the things that are relatively easy to change and gradually moved on to the more expensive and more complicated. They if you look back to where they were a year or two ago the progress has been good.

 

[yohy?!]

They have, out of necessity, started with the things that are relatively easy to change and gradually moved on to the more expensive and more complicated. They if you look back to where they were a year or two ago the progress has been good.

+1 - and a stark contrast to QF, imagine if their strategy had been to lease 777s 2 years ago to better compete on routes where the A380 has turned into a dud in terms of costs - would we see their network continuing to shrink to the point it is now? Or would they <gasp> be able to actually ADD routes instead of continue to axe them?

 

[markis10]

I don't mean to come across as overly critical, like you I think they are interesting changes. My posts are more about the amusement of how easily the AFFers seem to become disenchanted with Virgin after the initial rush of ZOMG!

The benefits we received as part of the Velocity revamp were designed to put in place the OMG factor, and while some have been removed or enhanced QF style, it was a pretty hard act to follow so disenchantment is somewhat of an expected side effect.

I don't think the J intro has lived up to expectations regardless of how high or low they were, and catering is a major issue which seems hard to solve, however people are still putting their money where their mouth is and flying DJ, even with its terrible onetime record which JB alluded to in France last night (SYD being the cause). Last night the BNE lounge was at capacity, but there was still plenty of hot food, fresh cold offerings and no real wait for a drink, and of course real coffee from a real employee not a machine.

Unlike others they seem to be investing in product and people rather than technology that replaces the human touch, over time that will show its value, even if we are drowning in choices in some areas and lacking choice in others during the transition.

 

[codash1099]

[video=youtube;FBLCnItoCzM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBLCnItoCzM&feature=youtu.be[/video]

If AJ really does believe that QF has the "best in the world" in the way of aircraft, lounges and network, there really is little hope for QF.

 

[yohy?!]

If AJ really does believe that QF has the "best in the world" in the way of aircraft, lounges and network, there really is little hope for QF.

He certainly doesn't put his money where his mouth his! He and other QF exces flew SQ on their recent trip to re-launch Nancy in SIN.

 

[under the radar]

of course this bird won't fly domestic routes long, they didn't put beds in it to make the per commuters happy. i'm putting money on these new birds being mostly offshore once enough of them arrive and most domestic routes seeing the old ex-ek ones the majority of the time. Also predict a lot of 'i booked on one of international a330's and got the coughpy domestic one' posts. God help the 737's whom i fear will become the unwanted embarassing uncle of the fleet.

agreeeeeee totally

 

[travelislife]

He certainly doesn't put his money where his mouth his! He and other QF exces flew SQ on their recent trip to re-launch Nancy in SIN.

Seriously? I find this amazing, was it in Suites? Or did they not want to 'bump' paying customers from seats on the QF flights?

 

[under the radar]

He certainly doesn't put his money where his mouth his! He and other QF exces flew SQ on their recent trip to re-launch Nancy in SIN.

ummmm..once again a thread/topic on VIRGINS product has turned into a QF/AJ bashing...i'm gettin sick of this!!! please excuse the irony of my post...but it would be nice to occassionally read 'ON THE TOPIC' discussions/posts on this forum

 

[maninblack]

+1 - and a stark contrast to QF, imagine if their strategy had been to lease 777s 2 years ago to better compete on routes where the A380 has turned into a dud in terms of costs - would we see their network continuing to shrink to the point it is now? Or would they <gasp> be able to actually ADD routes instead of continue to axe them?

Very different airlines, very different histories, very different issues to deal with.

 

[yohy?!]

ummmm..once again a thread/topic on VIRGINS product has turned into a QF/AJ bashing...i'm gettin sick of this!!! please excuse the irony of my post...but it would be nice to occassionally read 'ON THE TOPIC' discussions/posts on this forum

Sorry but there's only so many comments you can read either Oooohing-&-Aaaaaahing the new product or Poo-Poooooing it before thread drift is inevitable.

This is the Australian Frequent Flyer board after all...

 

[airbus380]

hmmm I recall JB saying that DJ's OTP will beat QF by years end.... ummm I think JB needs to slow down and swallow some of his words...

 

[777]

hmmm I recall JB saying that DJ's OTP will beat QF by years end.... ummm I think JB needs to slow down and swallow some of his words...

Can't say I've been tracking it but didnt they pull ahead late last year before the J catering issues hit?

 

[lovestotravel]

Ah so yep another different configuration to play havoc with staff and cause customers frustration with different levels of service

Blah blah blah Virgin is improving, I get that and I have supported them heavily over the past 5 months, but they really don't just get it yet.... Maybe they will eventually.....

Throwing these new A330's on the domestic routes, great, but what happens when they are pulled off for the Asia expansion ?

Delivering brand new 737's with lovely interiors and no IFE at all

You know the story

 

[Justchecking]

Don't worry lovestotravel, if JB manages to secure some Kingfisher slots the Asian invasion could happen sooner rather than later and the question of the new A330's flying any domestic route will be a moot point.