New a330 Angled Flat Business Class

[Ansettaddict123]

Don't worry lovestotravel, if JB manages to secure some Kingfisher slots the Asian invasion could happen sooner rather than later and the question of the new A330's flying any domestic route will be a moot point.

Heres hoping

 

[lovestotravel]

I don't mean to come across as overly critical, like you I think they are interesting changes. My posts are more about the amusement of how easily the AFFers seem to become disenchanted with Virgin after the initial rush of ZOMG! No-one is expecting the exact same product across all aircraft types but I think it's fair comment to say at the moment there is little commonality apart from seat colours amoung the various aircraft. It's also a little hard to see where all this is going when Virgin make little comment about the future plans (perhaps for obvious reasons) and instead just unveil yet another completely different aircraft. We are all just speculating on the reasons for this and that.

It's also interesting that what was almost a greenfield operation 2 years ago (high fleet commonality and consistency) has now become a really complicated and variable airline product. To what end?

This pretty much sums up my feelings!

New J product - Great, now it's boring, the seats are hard and the food/snacks a joke, not worth the money
Ex Emirates A330 - Never flown on them, but all reports are great, expect when one goes Tech
New A330 - Another sub-fleet type, which is on domestic for now and then probably off to Asia

I really feel sorry for the staff, the current problems with an 737-700 replaces a 737-800 with business class is a nightmare for the crew

Now there is another A330 with a different configuration again!

FAIL

 

[777]

Ah so yep another different configuration to play havoc with staff and cause customers frustration with different levels of service

Yes, of course, any sensible airline would have stuck with a ten year old hand me down configuration from emirates because that's all they were able to get two years ago. Upgrading the product is clearly a massive mistake.

Sheesh, if this is the criticism you get for IMPROVING the product you really can't win can you?

Throwing these new A330's on the domestic routes, great, but what happens when they are pulled off for the Asia expansion ?

Umm, has been announced that whole a330 fleet will be refitted with this config. If not, then no one is worse off than the status quo anyway, surely?

REally, I can't see how this is anything other than a MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT. I do question at times here whether the problem is with peoples attitudes or Virgins strategy. I think this is about a good a test as you can get. If your complaint about introducing a massively Improved product is that it is different from the lesser product I'd suggest nothing they do is likely to please you.

 

[amaroo]

Seriously? I find this amazing, was it in Suites? Or did they not want to 'bump' paying customers from seats on the QF flights?

Probably the only seats left were QF51 out of BNE......no one, wants to use that Flounge

 

[lovestotravel]

Umm, has been announced that whole a330 fleet will be refitted with this config. If not, then no one is worse off than the status quo anyway, surely?

I do question at times here whether the problem is with peoples attitudes or Virgins strategy.

It's quite clear

Virgin are good at doing most things half-coughd. They TRY to do the right thing, and have some great ideas, but they just can't implement it correctly

Dates, dates dates

J rollout, when is that going to be complete, IE All 737's
E series - J rollout
IFE rollout - When is that going to be complete and what will it be
A330's reconfigured - When will that be complete ?

etc etc etc

777 - Please provide dates of the above instead of just being another fanboi

 

[777]

It's quite clear

Virgin are good at doing most things half-coughd. They TRY to do the right thing, and have some great ideas, but they just can't implement it correctly

Dates, dates dates

J rollout, when is that going to be complete, IE All 737's
E series - J rollout
IFE rollout - When is that going to be complete and what will it be
A330's reconfigured - When will that be complete ?

etc etc etc

777 - Please provide dates of the above instead of just being another fanboi

So, your complaint is not that things are improving but that things aren't improving fast enough? Or is it simply that you're not happy with the idea of evolutionary progress - if something doesn't happen simultaneously everywhere it shouldn't be done. I don't have dates for all of the above, but in most cases there is very clear evidence that they are all being done.

Just out of curiosity. Do you hold Qantas to the same standards? When will they have a consistent J product across their 737 fleet [No announced plans to do so AFAIK but i haven't followed it closely]? When will they have a consistent IFE platform [No plans to do so]? When will they introduce J seating on their smaller jets [No plans to do so]?

I'm not arguing there is no room for improvement but i am arguing that very clear progress has been demonstrated over a period of a year or two and rolling out these new cabins on the a330s are further evidence of that progress. It is simply unreasonable and impractical to expect the airline to be grounded while everything is done simultaneously or to expect that they do everything NOW if it is going to cost 10 times more than doing it stages. In the real world changes on this scale take time and i live in the real world.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I don't think this has been asked (sorry if it has) but has anyone slept on these angled lie flat seat? Part of me says that in the dry cabin air, having your head elevated a bit might be good for the sinuses (read less snoring) but another part of me thinks that all that's missing is a bedpan and it could be a hospital bed.

So any first hand experiences......angle lie flat compared to flat lie flat?

 

[lovestotravel]

Pulling this from the Asia expansion thread

I certainly dont believe that beds are necessary nor a good use of aircraft space for optimising an aircraft for flights under 4hrs. There are plenty of alternatives, the existing A330 J layout looking pretty close to one. Lots of legroom, decent recline, comfy enough for a short snooze. Just take out the two middle seats and use privacy pods and thats a perfectly acceptable domestic J product. The people who've so far flown it have had few complaints. It's not like DJ couldn't sell J on the route due to lack of beds.

Agree - A 4hr 20 min - 5 hr 20 min flight does not need a bed!

All this does is create yet another level of complexity for everyone, both staff and customers!

I still say VA should have gone with the Virgin America business class layout for ALL 737 & A330s (domestic) more than acceptable for a 5 hour flight and a bit too much for a 1 hour flight

The E-Jets can stick to certain routes and have a different product

As it stands now:

77W
A330 Int
A330 Domestic
737 with J
737 with PE
E Jets

6 different type of J/PE Product


Fokker
ATR's

The Fokker and ATR's are okay and don't need J...

 

[greenfish]

I'm not arguing there is no room for improvement but i am arguing that very clear progress has been demonstrated over a period of a year or two and rolling out these new cabins on the a330s are further evidence of that progress. It is simply unreasonable and impractical to expect the airline to be grounded while everything is done simultaneously or to expect that they do everything NOW if it is going to cost 10 times more than doing it stages. In the real world changes on this scale take time and i live in the real world.

No-one is disputing that Virgin are improving. The issue is that Virgin are over promising and under delivering in terms of J product. On 2 of my DJ flights last week, there were 5 equipment changes over a few days, so the concept of not selling business on 700s doesn't work, as they cannot consistently deliver a specific aircraft on a specific route at a specific time.

Another different layout just exacerbates the risk of disappointing their J customers. Maybe the issue is too much change too quickly. From a customer experience perspective,it may be wiser to use the new aircraft in place of XFA and XFB, allowing the immediate refurb of these two planes rather than having months or years of inconsistency whilst they expand routes with the new planes.

With the Embraers, it appears as if they launched J without a plan at all. I've yet to encounter a refitted Embraer - they seem to be getting a curtain and seat cover makeover, which suggests quite some time until the full refit occurs (though personally I don't mind the spare seat, it is costing DJ revenue, with 2 fewer J seats).

 

[lovestotravel]

So, your complaint is not that things are improving but that things aren't improving fast enough? Or is it simply that you're not happy with the idea of evolutionary progress - if something doesn't happen simultaneously everywhere it shouldn't be done. I don't have dates for all of the above, but in most cases there is very clear evidence that they are all being done.

Just out of curiosity. Do you hold Qantas to the same standards? When will they have a consistent J product across their 737 fleet [No announced plans to do so AFAIK but i haven't followed it closely]? When will they have a consistent IFE platform [No plans to do so]? When will they introduce J seating on their smaller jets [No plans to do so]?

QF is not a benchmark but they do J better and far more consistent than VA

My issue was my carefully picked MEL-CBR-MEL flights in J, some on points and some paid, of which I have 20 return flights booked for June-September have changed...

Of the 40 or so flights, at least 15 of them have changed from 738 to E Jets....................

 

[777]

No-one is disputing that Virgin are improving. The issue is that Virgin are over promising and under delivering in terms of J product. On 2 of my DJ flights last week, there were 5 equipment changes over a few days, so the concept of not selling business on 700s doesn't work, as they cannot consistently deliver a specific aircraft on a specific route at a specific time.

Another different layout just exacerbates the risk of disappointing their J customers. Maybe the issue is too much change too quickly. From a customer experience perspective,it may be wiser to use the new aircraft in place of XFA and XFB, allowing the immediate refurb of these two planes rather than having months or years of inconsistency whilst they expand routes with the new planes.

With the Embraers, it appears as if they launched J without a plan at all. I've yet to encounter a refitted Embraer - they seem to be getting a curtain and seat cover makeover, which suggests quite some time until the full refit occurs (though personally I don't mind the spare seat, it is costing DJ revenue, with 2 fewer J seats).

Not disputing any of this. There is a consistency problem at the moment. What i think is clear though is that there are clear and announced plans in place to fix them and that it will and does take some time. None of the problems you've identified above haven't already got announced solutions in the process of implementation.

We can argue about what they should or shouldn't do in the mean time but it's not like the issues aren't acknowledged and aren't being addressed.

 

[lovestotravel]

What i think is clear though is that there are clear and announced plans in place to fix them and that it will and does take some time. None of the problems you've identified above haven't already got announced solutions in the process of implementation.

There are no clear and announced plans to fix any of the problems mentioned, as you said "no dates"

When will all 737's have J
When will the E Jets have J - Well there was an article in the mag stating end of this year, but I haven't seen anything else
When will all 737's have IFE/WiFi
When will the Ex Emirates A330's be refitted (if at all)

 

[MarkD]

And just how long is it supposed to take for these plans to be put into action? IFE is a joke, it was released nearly 1YEAR AGO, we have a new exciting IFE SOON. Seriously, Waht would be described as soon. J class is a multitude of inconsistancey, meal service is hit and miss, standard of product recieved is so inconsistant, that it turns you away simply because you have no expectation of what you will get, could be brilliant, could be cough.
Virgin are floundering, and the sooner they choose their path and follow that, the better.

 

[greenfish]

Not disputing any of this. There is a consistency problem at the moment. What i think is clear though is that there are clear and announced plans in place to fix them and that it will and does take some time. None of the problems you've identified above haven't already got announced solutions in the process of implementation.

We can argue about what they should or shouldn't do in the mean time but it's not like the issues aren't acknowledged and aren't being addressed.

While I agree with your comments, having a plan to address issues does nothing for the disgruntled PAX who bought J and got something altogether different.

Alienating your J customers isn't good business.

The J launch has been mishandled (perhaps released prematurely) and risks tarnishing DJ's reputation. If you can't consistently deliver a product, don't sell the product.

Better to "surprise and delight" than to disappoint J pax.

 

[777]

There are no clear and announced plans to fix any of the problems mentioned, as you said "no dates"

When will all 737's have J

Someone can correct my memory but i thought VA are now down to about 10 737-700s (so 1/6th of the domestic 737 fleet) and these were due to be retired/ returned to lessors over the course of the next financial year as 14 or so BSI 737-800s come in to replace them.

When will the E Jets have J - Well there was an article in the mag stating end of this year, but I haven't seen anything else

"later this year" according the statement announcing it.

When will all 737's have IFE/WiFi

"by the end of 2012" quoting ABT quoting VA. Tests to be conducted later this year and then rolled out fairly quickly providing there aren't any major hiccups.

When will the Ex Emirates A330's be refitted (if at all)

It has been announced that they will (only today). No timeline given (yet).

As with anything, some of these dates may slip but your statement that "There are no clear and announced plans to fix any of the problems mentioned" (emphasis mine) is obviously wrong. You're clearly disgruntled about changes of equipment on your bookings and that's a legitimate complaint but your refusal to acknowledge clearly laid plans to fix these issues is just ridiculous.

 

[777]

While I agree with your comments, having a plan to address issues does nothing for the disgruntled PAX who bought J and got something altogether different.

Alienating your J customers isn't good business.

The J launch has been mishandled (perhaps released prematurely) and risks tarnishing DJ's reputation. If you can't consistently deliver a product, don't sell the product.

Better to "surprise and delight" than to disappoint J pax.

I basically agree with you. What i don't agree with is the idiocy of arguing that actually improving the product is somehow just more examples of incosistency. No, improvement is improvement and it's good. The issue is with over promising and under delivering which has clearly happened at time during the J rollout.

 

[lovestotravel]

Nothing is clear, it's just marketing fluff

In the meanwhile, going off reports here and people I speak to, people are sick of all the hype and just want a consistent product

 

[Justchecking]

people are sick of all the hype and just want a consistent product

This is the crux of it.

 

[LiamR]

Can't say I've been tracking it but didnt they pull ahead late last year before the J catering issues hit?

They beat QF for about 4-6mths IIRC.

EDIT:

 

[777]

Nothing is clear, it's just marketing fluff

In the meanwhile, going off reports here and people I speak to, people are sick of all the hype and just want a consistent product

To state the obvious: the reason nothing is clear is because you're not actually paying any attention to the details. You're making a whole stack of assumptions based on clearly half accurate information, and then you're getting upset and demanding that VA should be doing something about X, Y, and Z when in most cases VA are very clear about their intentions to do something about them.

Your fundamental complaint that Virgin currently have an inconsistent product and it's problematic/ frustrating is true. Your assumptions that Virgin somehow aren't aware of or doing anything about it are blatantly not true. You can debate whether or not the response is adequate or timely enough and i may actually agree with you but - for whatever their faults - Virgin have actually been working to consistently improve their product and they have by and large done what they say will do.