New Next Gen Card and Bag Tags have arrived!

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So, if going through a NGCI port, I suggest not putting toll tags or other powerful RFID devices in checked luggage.

In short, whilst it is a book definition fail, it's something that the development engineers never thought about in their scenario testing. It's not the most obvious thing to happen, but great to hear that you've managed to back engineer the problem.

Now to find out how to get back your MIA bag.

Baggage service staff at BNE don't like the new system and are very quick to give out Customer Care contact details to complain about it (stating that their complaints are not really getting through)

Did they tell you why? And so far I think from our thread there have been two lost bags "due to the new system" (as it were), and both incidents happened in BNE. Happy to be corrected here.......
 
In short, whilst it is a book definition fail, it's something that the development engineers never thought about in their scenario testing. It's not the most obvious thing to happen, but great to hear that you've managed to back engineer the problem

I would have thought one of the most obvious problems would be interference by random RFID tags. Basically the need to make sure NGCI doesn't get stuffed up by other RFID "devices".

Then again there is no way to account for the workings of an engineers mind ;)
 
I would have thought one of the most obvious problems would be interference by random RFID tags. Basically the need to make sure NGCI doesn't get stuffed up by other RFID "devices".

Then again there is no way to account for the workings of an engineers mind ;)

Actually, one has to think about interference at least between two (or more) Q Bag Tags (i.e. a basic example of two RFID devices). I don't think QF guaranteeing that their luggage systems will keep all items in single rank and file on the conveyors is an adequate risk mitigation measure.

Truth be told, with all the RFID devices and what not out on the market, I think the actual testing and mitigation measures against cross-RFID device interference is actually (abysmally) low. Public transport "smart cards" are a prime example.
 
Having just dropped off the Hertz rental car, I pulled off the e-tag for the tolls, and dropped it into the top zip pocket on the checked in bag which has gone astray. I suspect that the e-tag in the bag, close to the top and near the NGCI bag tag has screwed up the RFID reading and caused the bag to go nowhere. Qantas have no warnings about this anywhere, so I would put this down to a faulty system (not necessarily he physical system, bit processes, procedures and customer documentation are just as much a part of the system as the equipment).

So, if going through a NGCI port, I suggest not putting toll tags or other powerful RFID devices in checked luggage.

I would have thought one of the most obvious problems would be interference by random RFID tags. Basically the need to make sure NGCI doesn't get stuffed up by other RFID "devices".

Then again there is no way to account for the workings of an engineers mind ;)

This should not be an issue. If it's a Citylink e-tag, they're based on DSRC standards (Dedicated Short Range Communications) typically operating in the 5.9GHz range.

Most of the RFID used in airline systems are HF-RFID or High-Frequency. They're typically around 13.56 MHz, way out of the range of e-tags.

There should be no issues with these as they're so far apart on the spectrum.

I'd be more willing to bet that the workings 'behind the rubber flaps of the baggage belts' are playing up.

HKG uses RFID tags to direct luggage around the airport, with no problems. This is just teething issues i'm sure.
 
HKG uses RFID tags to direct luggage around the airport, with no problems. This is just teething issues i'm sure.

[engineer]

Stress test case: Fill up a bag of tags, RFID cards and send it through HKG. See if it makes it the other side. :lol:

[/engineer]
 
[engineer]

Stress test case: Fill up a bag of tags, RFID cards and send it through HKG. See if it makes it the other side. :lol:

[/engineer]

Seriously, don't tempt me. I have access to many RFID card/tags etc.

I'm a Network Engineer by trade. These thoughts have crossed my mind... multiple times ;)
 
This should not be an issue. If it's a Citylink e-tag, they're based on DSRC standards (Dedicated Short Range Communications) typically operating in the 5.9GHz range.

Most of the RFID used in airline systems are HF-RFID or High-Frequency. They're typically around 13.56 MHz, way out of the range of e-tags.

There should be no issues with these as they're so far apart on the spectrum.

I'd be more willing to bet that the workings 'behind the rubber flaps of the baggage belts' are playing up.

HKG uses RFID tags to direct luggage around the airport, with no problems. This is just teething issues i'm sure.

QF are using UHF - not HF or Microwave. ISO18000-6C compliant
 
Now to find out how to get back your MIA bag.

Progress on this front. Have been on the phone to QF baggage services, and they have tracked it down. Now, if there is some issue with the way the Q-tag is being read, where is the worst place they could have sent the bag in error? :shock:

Of course, instead of a simple SYD-BNE, the bag took a trip to PER! They are now going to request it to be sent back (hopefully on a direct flight (update: Thank goodness, trace indicates it is being sent on QF598, direct PER-BNE), not via SYD, as who knows where it will go next, assuming it gets out of PER :o).

I will defer to the experts on the likelihood or not of a goVia toll tag (I am assuming issuer won't make one jot of difference, since they are all interoperable, they must work on the same frequencies), is likely to have been at all contributing, but I remain suspicious, as it is the only real differentiator (other than whatever happens down the track behind the luggage doors), between the two bags we sent down the same injector.

  • Both bags roughly the same dimensions
  • Both bags in the same approximate weight range
  • Q-Tag attached in the same location (top handle of a roller bag) on both bags
  • Both Q-Tags having their first ever use, after BNE not willing to give them a go, so no previous destination information to confuse things
  • Sent down about 30 seconds apart
Differences (obviously) being different tags, and attached to different pax records, although on the same booking.

As far as testing goes, one of the factors that may come to play as far as any issues not showing up in the trial, is choice of location. PER has no toll roads, so the number of tags likely to go through there is very small. Nobody who has one from the east coast is going to bother taking it, as there is no need. The very few people who live in PER and have one for use exclusively on the east coast when they travel are unlikely to put it in checked luggage, as they will need it on arrival (otherwise why take it), and will keep it in hand luggage (like I did on the way to SYD). So trials in PER are highly unlikely to actually have experienced the scenario if it was not thought about and specifically tested.

Normally I wouldn't be putting such things in checked luggage, but returning home, with a sudden storm having come over SYD, and as a consequence with not a lot of time to make the baggage drop deadline, lugging extra bags due to the Xmas run, the little pocket with the zip on the outside was just right for a lumpy toll tag that I wasn't going to need for a few days.
 
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Progress on this front. Have been on the phone to QF baggage services, and they have tracked it down. Now, if there is some issue with the way the Q-tag is being read, where is the worst place they could have sent the bag in error? :shock:

Of course, instead of a simple SYD-BNE, the bag took a trip to PER! They are now going to request it to be sent back (hopefully on a direct flight (update: Thank goodness, trace indicates it is being sent on QF598, direct PER-BNE), not via SYD, as who knows where it will go next, assuming it gets out of PER :o).

I will defer to the experts on the likelihood or not of a goVia toll tag (I am assuming issuer won't make one jot of difference, since they are all interoperable, they must work on the same frequencies), is likely to have been at all contributing, but I remain suspicious, as it is the only real differentiator (other than whatever happens down the track behind the luggage doors), between the two bags we sent down the same injector.

  • Both bags roughly the same dimensions
  • Both bags in the same approximate weight range
  • Q-Tag attached in the same location (top handle of a roller bag) on both bags
  • Both Q-Tags having their first ever use, after BNE not willing to give them a go, so no previous destination information to confuse things
  • Sent down about 30 seconds apart
Differences (obviously) being different tags, and attached to different pax records, although on the same booking.

As far as testing goes, one of the factors that may come to play as far as any issues not showing up in the trial, is choice of location. PER has no toll roads, so the number of tags likely to go through there is very small. Nobody who has one from the east coast is going to bother taking it, as there is no need. The very few people who live in PER and have one for use exclusively on the east coast when they travel are unlikely to put it in checked luggage, as they will need it on arrival (otherwise why take it), and will keep it in hand luggage (like I did on the way to SYD). So trials in PER are highly unlikely to actually have experienced the scenario if it was not thought about and specifically tested.

Normally I wouldn't be putting such things in checked luggage, but returning home, with a sudden storm having come over SYD, and as a consequence with not a lot of time to make the baggage drop deadline, lugging extra bags due to the Xmas run, the little pocket with the zip on the outside was just right for a lumpy toll tag that I wasn't going to need for a few days.

Maybe your bag was on a Status Run? :lol:

You should ask it when you are re-united.
 
I just used next-gen check in for the first time about 5 minutes ago.
SYD T3. No bags to check in.

Tapped the card on the "pole"
Green light, checked in and got a SMS (in 1 minute) with;

Oneworldplus2 /MR
Flight: QF54x
Seat No: 6X
Travel Class: Economy
From: SYD
To: BNE

Took all of 15 seconds.
I did pre-select my seat with online check in the other day.
Judging by that process, it doesn't matter what status you have.
 
I did pre-select my seat with online check in the other day.
Judging by that process, it doesn't matter what status you have.

Strange. Whenever, I've tried to use the post after already doing OLCI, I've had a message to say I'm already checked in and nothing else.

I should also share my other experience that my card barcode works on boarding when I do OLCI. Hence it is possible to do the OLCI, not print the BP and just use the card. However, what I normally do is not print the BP and ask for a card one at the lounge, which I put away and then scan my card on boarding. Best of both worlds really.
 
Strange. Whenever, I've tried to use the post after already doing OLCI, I've had a message to say I'm already checked in and nothing else.

I should also share my other experience that my card barcode works on boarding when I do OLCI. Hence it is possible to do the OLCI, not print the BP and just use the card. However, what I normally do is not print the BP and ask for a card one at the lounge, which I put away and then scan my card on boarding. Best of both worlds really.

Why would you print the boarding pass at the airport then use the card? Strikes me as wasteful. I always OLCI, open the pdf to read my sequence number, but don't print it. I then use my card to board.
 
Why would you print the boarding pass at the airport then use the card? Strikes me as wasteful. I always OLCI, open the pdf to read my sequence number, but don't print it. I then use my card to board.

A few reasons:
Some people like to collect the nice card BPs.
Technically the members card isn't supposed to work if doing OLCI. At least it is not stated anywhere that it will work. Also the lounge staff ask me how I checked in and when I say OLCI they print the BP for me. Undocumented feature that it works. That indicates that a printed BP is required and this is the basis of many of the following reasons.
I like a printed BP in case the card doesn't work for some reason.
It is a waste of my resources to print out the OLCI BP. I'm paying a premium airline for premium things like a BP.
If I put the printed BP away it is harder for people to read my QFF number and name from my platinum card.
I don't have to have the BP in my pocket, easier to quickly put my QFF card back in my wallet.
There is a lot more paper in an A4 sheet of paper so printing on that is more wasteful.

Basically because I want to.... ;)
 
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FWIW when NGCI becomes more mainstream I'd be saving my PDFs from OLCI if I wanted a record.

It is a waste of my resources to print out the OLCI BP. I'm paying a premium airline for premium things like a BP.

Technically it is a waste because the card can do it.

I never knew BPs were a premium thing. For most part across the world, they are getting worse anyway, even if they are still printed on cardboard (and several are moving away from this too, especially with kiosks).
 
I'm paying a premium airline for premium things like a BP.

Some may say that being able to select seats prior to the flight and only needing to use your card is a premium service, rather than having to print out your own boarding pass, get someone else / a machine to print it out, etc.
 
Technically it is a waste because the card can do it.

As I tried to write already the cards being able to do the job is an undocumented feature. It has not been official mentioned by qantas and the lounge dragons still give me a printed BP when I use OLCI and don't tell me to use the card as they do for someone who has swiped the post. That strongly suggests that I need to have a printed BP if I use OLCI.

I never knew BPs were a premium thing.

Some may say that being able to select seats prior to the flight and only needing to use your card is a premium service,

Oops, despite what I wrote, I didn't mean "premium" as a privilege. Qantas bill themselves as a premium airline and charge accordingly to cover their costs. Part of those costs is printing a BP and hence I'm paying a premium that covers that cost.
 
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