Nuts on board - a serious issue!

[Austman]

An observation:

On every Malaysia Airlines domestic flight I've been on, a packet of peanuts was the only food handled out. On every flight, typically over 100 passengers, no other options. Peanuts and juice/water.

I wonder how MH domestic would handle the situation?

Edit: I found out:

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/au/en/plan/special-needs/health-medical-guide.html

Peanut allergies

Malaysia Airlines appreciates the challenges faced by passengers who suffer from allergic reactions to peanuts.
Malaysia Airlines is unable to guarantee a peanut-free environment in its aircrafts or airport lounges. However, Malaysia Airlines will put in place arrangements (as outlined below) to minimize the risk of passengers who are allergic to peanuts suffering an allergic reaction while onboard Malaysia Airlines flights provided advanced written notification has been received by Malaysia Airlines. Specifically, all passengers who are allergic to peanuts are required to submit a 'Release Form' at least three (3) working days before their flight departure. Please see the link to the form and further details at the bottom of this page. If Malaysia Airlines receives the Release Form within the required time, Malaysia Airlines will implement the following measures:

Peanut snacks are often served on Malaysia Airlines flights. However, Malaysia Airlines will create a 'buffer zone' around the passenger's seat which will include seven entire rows (being the row that the passenger has been allocated to sit in and the three rows in front of and the three rows behind the passenger's allocated row) (Designated Area). Peanut snacks and peanut condiments in meals (such as peanuts that are served on the side to accompany a meal) will not be served to any passengers seated in the Designated Area. The flight crew will use their best endeavours to stop passengers from eating their own peanut snacks in the Designated Area. Please note, however, that peanut-based dishes (such as a satay dish) may be served in the Designated Area.

(and it contuniues with a lot of other information and requirements)

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Katy..... claimed the person sitting next to him even asked him not to open the packet.

I'm not taking sides here, as I think this is an odd and seemingly near tragic story, but I can only ever recall hearing a conversation 4 rows away when a guy on AA in Y was yelling to his kids what sandwiches they all wanted. How did she know what the guy next to the alleged nut villain said or didn't say?

I'm tending to think the nut guy may have been an obstinate jerk or he may have simply not heard or misunderstood the instruction (was the message "attention, we have a little girl with a nut allergy so no nuts will be served today" did they really say no one can eat nuts at all) as I cannot believe anyone would deliberately endanger a childs life to eat a measly pack of nuts but whichever, there does seem to be some oddities in what the mother is claiming happened.

Can anyone be really sure if the little girl didn't have some nut traces in some food she just ate? Was there nuts left on her seat from the previous pax? Lots of scenarios but it seems the guy who dared to open a pack of nuts is due to be dragged out back and drawn and quartered.

 

[Robert K]

stay home.

 

[boomy]

The airline in question - Ryan Air. It's the type of airline who would act on what is best for its publicity before it had an answer.

There is enough in the article to suggest that there are some credibility issues in what is being presented.

So what is your idea of the full story then? We heard the mother, writer of the article and the airline all suggesting the man deliberately ignored the crew (and pax next to him).

 

[Pushka]

I think it needs to be established how the man was actually informed. Many times those general announcements are indecipherable. If it was to him in person then that's different. If I didn't understand the announcement I don't think I'd also listen to the guy next to me.

 

[Denali]

I'm wondering if he was informed in a language he understood. My last flight, I had a FA speaking directly to me and I didn't understand her.

 

[mannej]

So what is your idea of the full story then? We heard the mother, writer of the article and the airline all suggesting the man deliberately ignored the crew (and pax next to him).

Re-read the article. The only person you hear from on the flight was the girls mother. There is nothing from the airline at all in the article, only what the mother says that FR told her.

Hardly the full story, in fact it is very one sided. I am a bit more open minded to believe that it isn't 100% fully credible due to the lack of Official airline statement, nor is there any chance for the man to respond to the article.

I am struggling to see how you can suggest we have the full picture when we only have one side of the story, there are atleast two more parties involved here (the "inconsiderate man" and FR).

Sorry but I am just pointing it out as I see. Not trying to excuse the behaviour but trying to suggest there are still bits of information missing.

 

[Alanslegal]

Assuming the peanuts is at fault; swap the man eating peanuts with a woman eating peanuts and I bet me 6 qantas frequent flyer points that this story would not have made the news.

 

[RooFlyer]

If a FA addressed the guy directly, and said to the effect "don't eat your nuts sir, it may put the little girl in great danger' - wouldn't you think that the FA would instruct the person not to do his nuts? If there was a dire health issue, would you just leave it to the discretion of the nutter?

BTW - do we know how the girl was affected - would it be by nut proteins landing on her skin, or her inhaling nut proteins / dust etc, or some other vector? Its an interesting exercise in quasi-aerosol transmission within planes; I've read, in discussion of disease transmission on planes that again, the chances are small because the air flow is (largely) sideways . Unless the guy shook out the nut packet wrapper above his head, the quantity of transmitted material up 4 rows must surely be vanishingly small. When you eat a small packet of peanuts on an airplane, how far is the bag from your mouth and do you scatter them around?

Under those circumstances, and given the severity of the risk, surely the young lady should have been virtually wrapped up, with a heavy duty face mask?

 

[amaroo]

Nuts are in just about everything - poor girl must have a torrid time struggling thru everyday

What would happen if the last passengers to sit in/near her seat had spilled or left nuts on the seat/floor/seat pockets prior to her boarding...

I know allergies are real......but this story seems like a beat up.

 

[Happy Trails]

Some more info in this article.
It seems the guy's English may have been an issue and Ryanair confirmed a two year ban.

Girl, 4, stops breathing on Ryanair flight after allergic reaction despite warning | UK | News | Daily Express

Police told Mrs Platten the man who opened the packet of nuts was in his late thirties or forties and of Zimbabwean origin.

He was travelling with his wife and two teenage children and it is understood he told officers he did not speak good English.

He was also allegedly involved in an argument with a passenger sat next to him.

Mrs Platten said: "The police told us that the man sitting in front of him told him not to open the nuts, but he just said he'd open them if he wanted to."

The passenger has been banned from all Ryanair flights for two years.

A spokesman for the airline said: "Ryanair can confirm that the passenger involved in the incident has been banned for two years. Ryanair does not impose life bans."

 

[samh004]

Eating nuts is not illegal last time I looked.

I would take this view too... I get that allergies are very big things for some people, but (dons flame suit) what about my right to eat what I want?

Would it be fair to expect they would exchange (without cost) my nutty-food for non-nutty food of the same value onboard? Or do my rights suddenly become less than her rights? And in fact, everyone onboard's rights become less than hers?

 

[UP4014]

I've found this alternate article which suggests they did have one of those epipens but couldn't use it. A medically trained person had to be found on board who could inject her for them. That is just amazing. To have a child with such a condition but not be able (or willing?) to medicate her.......

You'd just do it wouldn't you...? I have for a friend and while I was reluctant I thought if I don't do this right now there is no one else here with any more training than me, which was zilch. have done the same back in the insulin out of two bottles into a syringe and you just do it because there is no time to BS around. Getting things nearly right in this situation is better than doing nothing especailly when you don't know how long to the nearest expert help.

I agree with others here, I think the mother needs to explain some things before we just jump on this guy.

Matt

 

[drron]

Certainly a contentious subject.I have a surrogate granddaughter with anaphylactic reactions to peanuts eggs and shellfish.I can sit next to her on a plane and eat peanuts,ground nuts and eat lobster without her having a reaction.I know though I can not touch or kiss her until I have thoroughly washed my hands and face using soap.
Since the age of 8 she has been using her own epipen.There was always an epipen with her.It is still the one thing she doesn't leave home without.
interestingly she has seen a Professor of Immunology and has undergone desentising treatment for her peanut allergy with great success.Unfortunately the eggs still get her.


The subject of whether you can have an anaphylactic reaction to inhalation of peanut fumes is not clear.At Mt.Sinai medical centre in NYC they have subjected children with a history of severe reactions to peanut inhalation to a blinded placebo controlled trial.None had severe reactions.Only minor skin reactions in a minority.


So the mother certainly needs to do more.At the very least learn how to use an epipen.The family's doctor also needs to be asked if when a prescription for the epipen was given was the mother taught how to use it.
As to the man it now is suggested he was Zimbawean with limited English.Could well be he had no idea of the problem.

And for another bit of common sense.Children of mothers who eat peanuts regularly during the pregnancy are 69% less likely to have peanut allergy.Also if peanuts are introduced at a young age peanut allergy is dramatically reduced-Israeli kids have only 10% of the risk of peanut allergy as british kids-they get peanuts early in life whereas it was common in the UK for paediatricians to advise no peanuts before age 3.

 

[Robert K]

Did you know some asians don't eat soy sauce while pregnant because they believe it will turn their baby dark. seriously.

 

[opusman]

Did you know some asians don't eat soy sauce while pregnant because they believe it will turn their baby dark. seriously.

In South Korea they're scared to use fans because they think they will suck all the oxygen out of the room.

This is getting off-topic though

 

[TheRealTMA]

...

The subject of whether you can have an anaphylactic reaction to inhalation of peanut fumes is not clear.At Mt.Sinai medical centre in NYC they have subjected children with a history of severe reactions to peanut inhalation to a blinded placebo controlled trial.None had severe reactions.Only minor skin reactions in a minority.

So the mother certainly needs to do more.At the very least learn how to use an epipen.The family's doctor also needs to be asked if when a prescription for the epipen was given was the mother taught how to use it.
...

I'm not convinced of the reality or truth in this newspaper report. With HEPA filters and air recurlation on planes it seems not conceivable that the girl became ill 40 mins after 'a' person opened 'a' packet of preanuts some four rows away. Were there not nuts on the previous flight or bus to airport? Plus if the child had such an extreme allergy, the parents surely must have had previous medical advice and should have taken precautions with such things as epipens on hand.

Seems more like a news of the world type scary story with limited credibility. Where's the original reports and medical support for the story.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I would take this view too... I get that allergies are very big things for some people, but (dons flame suit) what about my right to eat what I want?

Would it be fair to expect they would exchange (without cost) my nutty-food for non-nutty food of the same value onboard? Or do my rights suddenly become less than her rights? And in fact, everyone onboard's rights become less than hers?

you don't have the right to intentionally, willfully, negligently, or recklessly cause another person harm.

smoking is legal, but you can't deliberately blow smoke in someone's face. Owning a gun (with licence) is legal, but you can't shoot someone with it. Owning a car is legal, but you're not allowed to run someone down.

You have the right to eat what you want (well, there are plenty of laws that limit what you can eat.. but I digress), but that right doesn't extent to harming others.

You do not have the right to have your product exchanged free of charge by the airline if you did not purchase the original item from the airline. They don't owe you anything.

 

[Ausbt]

I once turned up at the dock for a 4 night yacht delivery trip for the skipper to advise me "can you head out to the supermarket and provision the boat please? Also we'll be having an anaphylactic aboard". Now I didn't know the skipper or any of the crew at all - it was a turn-up-and-help-out type deal, and voluntary - not paid. Pretty big responsibility to get it right. I feel for people who suffer this stuff, total PITA.

 

[Denali]

... With HEPA filters and air recurlation on planes it seems not conceivable that the girl became ill 40 mins after 'a' person opened 'a' packet of preanuts some four rows away. ....

Im becoming a germaphobe in my old age and I wouldn't be surprised if something did go airborne and affect a person with severe allergies. After all, how many times does a conference room or plane full of people get sick from the one person being unwell in the same confined space.

I often wondered how people with severe allergies to animals survive on a plane in the US, considering people are allowed to bring them inside the cabin.