Nuts on board - a serious issue!

[Princess Fiona]

There is a lot of things in this report which don't add up.
Don't think I'll be taking a Ryan Air flight from ACE any time soon but I'd like to think that if someone suffered a respiratory arrest onboard after 20 minutes the flight would be diverted to the nearest airport.

 

[RAM]

Not excusing the guy for not listening to the crew, but I used to work dressed like that for 7-8 hours/day http://www.ehs-news.com/public/images/3M FF-400 Full Face Respirator lr.jpg
Overall: $25, Mask $300 and cartridges $50.

If I were that allergic to something, I think this is the only way to go...

I agree that if that severely allergic then only choice given recycled air on the planes is for her to wear a filter mask.

Given the degree of sensitivity her allergic reaction could have been set off by:

# A passenger on a previous flight eating nuts in the seat or adjacent seats to hers.
# Another passenger who was on the same flight who had eaten nuts in the terminal (or boarding lounge) and had left traces on the chair in the boarding lounge.
# The air crew at the gate checking the boarding passes/passports may have eaten nuts.
# A member of the cleaning crew could have snacked on some nuts while clearing the pockets of the seats.
# Someone who had eaten a meal containing nuts (prior to boarding) burped or .....
# Another 'nutty' traveller had brushed against her queuing for the gate

The possibilities are nearly endless.

The parents should have been travelling with at least two epi-pens (always have a spare).

The way the article is written implies they did not but who knows. It makes better copy to imply that if not for life-saving efforts of the air crew the girl would have died.

We've had this issue with our local public schools. The primary school banned all nuts yet the two high schools it feeds (pardon the pun) do not and have a personal-responsibility approach.

OK, that opens up the debate about how old do children need to be? My concern was that if at the end of Yr 6 they have no responsibility but from day one of Year 7 they have total responsibility then that is a problem.

To complicate matters, the primary school is now over 70% English as a second language and less than 1 in 30 families participate in P&C. How do you explain to a Mongolian child and mother who speak no English about a nut ban? My Yr 5 daughter was given the responsibility of teaching the girl English and showing her what to do throughout the day in class. This went on for three terms until the girl got to her first 200 words.

I did not say anything (believe it or not) but if a Yr 5 child is expected to look after a zero-English speaking other Yr5 then surely they have the ability to begin the management their allergy?

 

[RAM]

The mother quoted in the linked article it was mentioned on boarding and during the trolley run. I still maintain that there is a possibility the man did not either hear the messages or he chose to ignore it. Very easy to hang one out to dry without the full story.

Or had his headphones on listening to his own device and was adopting the all-too-frequent "I am the centre of the universe" approach, I know all so I will just turn up the volume to block those pesky announcements.

Or HE had paid for HIS flight and they were HIS nuts, and no where on the booking was there anything about not being able to eat HIS nuts.


They way the story is written is either sloppy or deliberately so because the full story is not so newsworthy.

 

[Denali]

Or had his headphones on listening to his own device and was adopting the all-too-frequent "I am the centre of the universe" approach, I know all so I will just turn up the volume to block those pesky announcements.....

Once we are allowed to use devices, my headphones go on and Im not hooked into the planes announcement system so unless the announcement is brace-brace-brace or we are preparing for descent, I don't pay attention to the announcements either. Doesn't mean the universe revolves around me.

 

[RAM]

Once we are allowed to use devices, my headphones go on and Im not hooked into the planes announcement system so unless the announcement is brace-brace-brace or we are preparing for descent, I don't pay attention to the announcements either. Doesn't mean the universe revolves around me.

Absolutely true, and especially so reading a later version of the story identifying the police comments on 'poor english' skills Zimbabwean.

 

[Steelo]

Looks like a beat up by the Ryanair publicity staff - and it appears to have worked because we are all talking about it.

 

[artemis]

Wow - interesting story.

But there are a few things that don't seem to fit:

a) a ban on nuts on an aircraft
b) aerosolised antigens causing anaphylaxis
c) mother unwilling/unable to administer adrenalin (Epi-pen)
d) plane not diverting with a child having an emergency
e) cabin crew being unfamiliar with Epi-pen administration
f) parents travelling with a child with such a serious allergy to a foreign country, where presumably they don't speak the language


I admit that I don't know how to administer an epipen, or even the adrenaline vials during an arrest. However, I can read and follow instructions and so have always been able to put the adrenaline syringes together and administer it to a patient during an arrest. It beggars belief that mum can't do this. Or dad. Or even the child's older sister...

If it were my child, I'd be doing all the desensitisation I could possible do before I travelled with a child. And I'd check with their paediatrician too...! Admittedly it's easier for me to access this information by virtue of my work, but still...

 

[artemis]

Which does all bring me to another question:

What medical gear do airlines have on board?

In the only medical emergency where I rendered assistance (unconscious 80yo from CHC-BNE), I had an oxygen mask, a BP cuff, and a terrible quality stethoscope. I was advised that if I needed to defibrillate the patient, I'd need to let the pilots know first.

I've heard horror stories about having no normal saline on board for intravenous fluids.

Do airlines carry basic arrest gear - cannulae, ET tubes, life support drugs?

Does it vary according to how long haul it is?

(apologies if this is covered somewhere else...)

 

[Moody]

The story is not a beat-up ... but this thread is.

BTW - I don't believe Ryanair gives out 2-year bans because of simple language issues, but you are welcome to have that misguided opinion.

 

[mannej]

The story is not a beat-up ... but this thread is.

BTW - I don't believe Ryanair gives out 2-year bans because of simple language issues, but you are welcome to have that misguided opinion.

I am not so sure that your opinion isn't misguided either.

The article that was referenced in the OP lacks credibility considering the fact that the childs mother is the only source of information, nothing from FR, nothing from any passengers on the flight.

There are members on here who I would consider to have a fairly strong grasp of the topic who are asking questions based on that article. That is good enough for me to suggest that the responses on here are not a beat up.

 

[RAM]

The story is not a beat-up ... but this thread is.

BTW - I don't believe Ryanair gives out 2-year bans because of simple language issues, but you are welcome to have that misguided opinion.

However given the news article relying solely on the mother, who appears entirely deficient in duty of care, who is not impartial at the least created the publicity and the lady's facebook page had a couple of thousand hits on it suggests Ryan Air were backed into a corner.

How willingly we do not know but the police have the power and chose not to exercise it. That suggests 'beat up' by mother to me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

However given the news article relying solely on the mother, who appears entirely deficient in duty of care, who is not impartial at the least created the publicity and the lady's facebook page had a couple of thousand hits on it suggests Ryan Air were backed into a corner.

How willingly we do not know but the police have the power and chose not to exercise it. That suggests 'beat up' by mother to me.

The link to the article (in post 1) says nothing about the mother being deficient in her care. The child said they didn't feel well, subsequently stopped breathing, and an injection was administered. The child was then taken to hospital.

It looks like the parents were armed with an epi pen, and gave it to the child.

 

[RAM]

The link to the article (in post 1) says nothing about the mother being deficient in her care. The child said they didn't feel well, subsequently stopped breathing, and an injection was administered. The child was then taken to hospital.

It looks like the parents were armed with an epi pen, and gave it to the child.

True - they had pens.
False - the parents gave it to the child.

The OP article said the child deteriorated over a period of time observed by the parents and sister's family.

The air crew provided towels and ice.
The air crew called for help (not the parents) once the girl stopped breathing.
Two people responded a nurse and ambo.
One of these administered the epi-pen.

The mother appears to have still been on holiday and expected everyone else to be responsible for her poor daughter's health.

What if the girl had been on the beach in Tenerife and stood on a dropped peanut? Or took a bite from someone's ice cream?

The family should know how to use the epi-pens.

If the girl is really this sensitive then there must have been previous incidents. Perhaps she is not as sensitive as made out and she was given something by her sister, mother etc. The story does not ring true IMHO especially knowing parents with extremely sensitive primary school children - everyone in their families knows how to use the pens and where they are located in the home, car glove box, school bag etc.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Do airlines carry basic arrest gear - cannulae, ET tubes, life support drugs?

One would hope so......given this forums number of frequent flying medicos, I'd reckon most planes carry the qualified people (as pax) so let's hope they have the tools needed by those lifesavers.

 

[Cynicor]

Is there a single Dr on this board that thinks the aerosolised anaphylaxis is possibly or even likely?

I haven't seen nor heard of a proven case, and can imagine that something so extreme would be documented in a case study.

Sounds like a beat up to me.

 

[juddles]

I cannot imagine an environment more likely to harbour ¨nut¨ residue than an airline seat.


Ban that passenger from 4 aisles away?? All airlines should ban THE GIRL. For protection from her own stupid parents.

 

[samh004]

you don't have the right to intentionally, willfully, negligently, or recklessly cause another person harm.

smoking is legal, but you can't deliberately blow smoke in someone's face. Owning a gun (with licence) is legal, but you can't shoot someone with it. Owning a car is legal, but you're not allowed to run someone down.

You have the right to eat what you want (well, there are plenty of laws that limit what you can eat.. but I digress), but that right doesn't extent to harming others.

You do not have the right to have your product exchanged free of charge by the airline if you did not purchase the original item from the airline. They don't owe you anything.

If your intent is to harm someone, sure. But it's not. Merely satisfying your hunger isn't a crime. The fact it can be construed as such shows what a sad world we live in these days.

 

[SeatBackForward]

At what point in recent history did nuts become such weapons of mass destruction?
And why stop at nuts, what about sneezing, sniffling? minimum row distances for snoring? enclosed capsules for flatlulence?

 

[Denali]

At what point in recent history did nuts become such weapons of mass destruction?...

But it seems to mainly affect the western world. I don't understand how allergies have become so prevalent in our culture. I can rattle off 100 people from my immediate family, toddler to aged that have zero allergy or asthma issues but a helicopter mum in my office has either the sickest kid in the world or borderline munchausen by proxy. Why are our kids so damaged/sick these days? Its very sad.

 

[Moody]

I am not so sure that your opinion isn't misguided either.

I am willing to be corrected - please let me know of anything that needs such action.

The article that was referenced in the OP lacks credibility considering the fact that the childs mother is the only source of information, nothing from FR, nothing from any passengers on the flight.

The man is an idiot, he knows it, and is therefore unlikely to go to the media and out himself further. Ryanair have banned him for two years - that would be their side of the story, wouldn't it? What exactly "lacks credibility"?

There are members on here who I would consider to have a fairly strong grasp of the topic who are asking questions based on that article. That is good enough for me to suggest that the responses on here are not a beat up.

That is the weakest argument yet. The internet is full of trolls and keyboard warriors who like to put other people down. This forum (and thread in particular) is no exception. [TIC]