Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pukka]

I struggle to understand how when I earn $180k per year and I go to the doctor I get $35 of my $70 payment refunded to me!

Why? Why should I get it back? I don't need it.

Presumably because you've paid a lot of tax which helps fund Medicare.

I'm sure you've got someone you would rather give that $35 to than the ATO

 

[whatmeworry]

Something wrong with this country if the uber rich can pay no tax.

Millionaires snub taxman

 

[casanovawa]

How can you take a story about a very few (70) people tax affairs, who on the surface sound a little fishy and i would have expected would attract some detailed review by the ATO, and then make a rather blanket, alarmist statement like that, when a paragraph in the story makes it pretty clear that the wealthy are making a pretty substantial contribution to the country???

Most rich people took a very different approach. The tax statistics show that 99.3 per cent of Australia's income millionaires did pay tax in 2010-11, and 98.9 per cent of them paid a lot of tax: $8.74 billion between them. Those 0.1 per cent of all taxpayers paid almost 10 per cent of all income tax.

That 0.1 per cent are making up for awful lot of low income earners that are contributing nothing... And if as you like to slant it, the rich are so powerful they can pick and choose whether to opt into the tax system, then what a very generous bunch of philanthropists we do have in Australia....

 

[Duffa]

Something wrong with this country if the uber rich can pay no tax.

My lifetime goal/dream is to get into this tax bracket!

Meanwhile, I'll settle for paying enough tax to score a couple of J returns to Europe p.a.

(Of course, I'd love to have the Cove throughput - and his special relationship with Mrs. ATO!)

 

[Sprucegoose]

Ok I'm sober now apologies all round.

In vino veritas as they say!!

 

[Skyring]

I struggle to understand how when I earn $180k per year and I go to the doctor I get $35 of my $70 payment refunded to me!

Why? Why should I get it back? I don't need it.

I have to go out of my way to the Medicare office to claim the refund. Are you in some priority group that gets it hand-delivered?

And how do I get in?

 

[drron]

I have to go out of my way to the Medicare office to claim the refund. Are you in some priority group that gets it hand-delivered?

And how do I get in?

You can lodge a claim online and have the rebate deposited-
http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/medicare/medicare-online-services

and if your doctor is up to date they can lodge the claim on the spot and the rebate is directly paid in to your account-
https://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/claims/easyclaim.shtml

 

[Moody]

How can you take a story about a very few (70) people tax affairs, who on the surface sound a little fishy and i would have expected would attract some detailed review by the ATO, and then make a rather blanket, alarmist statement like that, when a paragraph in the story makes it pretty clear that the wealthy are making a pretty substantial contribution to the country???



That 0.1 per cent are making up for awful lot of low income earners that are contributing nothing... And if as you like to slant it, the rich are so powerful they can pick and choose whether to opt into the tax system, then what a very generous bunch of philanthropists we do have in Australia....

I think you misundertand the system and it's current outcomes. The rich are getting richer and the uber-rich are getting uber-richer. I thought that would make you happy so why the angst? But what should we do with the poor - feed them cake perhaps?

 

[serfty]

You can lodge a claim online and have the rebate deposited-
Medicare Online Services

and if your doctor is up to date they can lodge the claim on the spot and the rebate is directly paid in to your account-
https://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/public/claims/easyclaim.shtml

... or find a doctor that "bulk bills" without fear or favour and you see no $$$ at all

 

[Pushka]

Why does Medicare send me the Drs cheque which means I then have to pay to post it to the Doctor for their refund? Something to do with the way the Dr bills? We have a gap of $30 which we pay upfront. It used to be free.

 

[dfcatch]

I think you misundertand the system and it's current outcomes. The rich are getting richer and the uber-rich are getting uber-richer. I thought that would make you happy so why the angst? But what should we do with the poor - feed them cake perhaps?

If the pie is growing (ie. everyone's slice is getting bigger) then I'm not concerned with that outcome.

No point in redistributing/equaling the pie slices (thus reducing incentive) if the pie itself isn't growing.

It's like the argument here about improvements (I won't say "enhancements") to other status levels.

"Oh it's unfair because he got a bigger status bonus improvement than i did!! Yes I know mine improved, but his improved more!! Waaaaaaaaaa"


(Oh - and the "rich" - they're still paying way more tax than the poor. Just try and fund your fave pet government services without the income tax from the rich if they decide to live elsewhere)

 

[medhead]

Why does Medicare send me the Drs cheque which means I then have to pay to post it to the Doctor for their refund? Something to do with the way the Dr bills? We have a gap of $30 which we pay upfront. It used to be free.

That's to do with how the doctor bills. The gap is also related to the doctor, either no longer bulk billing or putting up their fees. Tell them you'll pay upfront and then the cheque is sent to you in your name, or you get in direct deposited into your account.

 

[medhead]

If the pie is growing (ie. everyone's slice is getting bigger) then I'm not concerned with that outcome.

No point in redistributing/equaling the pie slices (thus reducing incentive) if the pie itself isn't growing.

It's like the argument here about improvements (I won't say "enhancements") to other status levels.

"Oh it's unfair because he got a bigger status bonus improvement than i did!! Yes I know mine improved, but his improved more!! Waaaaaaaaaa"


(Oh - and the "rich" - they're still paying way more tax than the poor. Just try and fund your fave pet government services without the income tax from the rich if they decide to live elsewhere)

Yeah some of the rich pay a lot of tax. And some of them don't.

Www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/the-70-mega-rich-who-dont-pay-tax-20130506-2j3ng.html

I particularly like the 2320 taxpayers who earned $75 million in wages and salary and spent the same amount on tax advice.

Edit: oh and I haven't seen any suggestion to make everyone's pie equal. Certainly the slice if pie for the uber-rich is growing faster than the slice of pie for others. I'm still trying to understand how getting more money doesn't provide incentive. Sure the tax paid might be higher, but I still have more money. Perhaps I too glass half full.

Maybe I should go back to a job paying half of my current job. That'd reduce my tax bill.

 

[dfcatch]

Yeah some of the rich pay a lot of tax. And some of them don't.

Www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/the-70-mega-rich-who-dont-pay-tax-20130506-2j3ng.html

I particularly like the 2320 taxpayers who earned $75 million in wages and salary and spent the same amount on tax advice.

Edit: oh and I haven't seen any suggestion to make everyone's pie equal. Certainly the slice if pie for the uber-rich is growing faster than the slice of pie for others. I'm still trying to understand how getting more money doesn't provide incentive. Sure the tax paid might be higher, but I still have more money. Perhaps I too glass half full.

Maybe I should go back to a job paying half of my current job. That'd reduce my tax bill.

Suggestion for equal pie??? - Every sentence that comes from Wayne Swan's lips to start with


To your incentive question - it's quite simple...... If the rate of taxation is too high then people will find other avenues to invest / divert their money that ultimately give them a higher rate of return / less taxation expense.

Plus - it reduces the incentive to work harder/more (aka invest more of your own, at your own risk, to generate more wealth).

Your final sentence may have been in jest - but there is a LOT of that mentality out there.

Hell - even for average (or less than average wage earners). How many times have you heard people say "Oh I don't want to work the extra day cause it will push me over and they'll take more tax out of my pay!". There are a lot of non-rich that come from that starting position (even if it's a flawed view of how taxation works). Perception is reality.

At the top end - they understand reality more than most.

 

[Pushka]

Oh dear. How can Wong just sit there with her dead pan face and tell us that the budget deficit is even worse than expected. And while it doesn't affect me, that another promise won't be delivered, but simply say, "well, people won't be getting less that what they are getting now, they just won't get what we promised" and not even look a tad concerned.

Re Salary reduction - that is like the person who refuses to sell their escalating shares, because they don't want to pay the CGT, and then watch as their shares plummet.

 

[medhead]

Suggestion for equal pie??? - Every sentence that comes from Wayne Swan's lips to start with


To your incentive question - it's quite simple...... If the rate of taxation is too high then people will find other avenues to invest / divert their money that ultimately give them a higher rate of return / less taxation expense.

Plus - it reduces the incentive to work harder/more (aka invest more of your own, at your own risk, to generate more wealth).

Your final sentence may have been in jest - but there is a LOT of that mentality out there.

Hell - even for average (or less than average wage earners). How many times have you heard people say "Oh I don't want to work the extra day cause it will push me over and they'll take more tax out of my pay!". There are a lot of non-rich that come from that starting position (even if it's a flawed view of how taxation works). Perception is reality.

At the top end - they understand reality more than most.

Oh, there's your mistake. Haven't you heard no one is listening to the government anymore. It so passé, I suggest you stop it. ;p

My last sentence was in jest but the comments about incentive are adopting that flawed line of reasoning.

Oh dear. How can Wong just sit there with her dead pan face and tell us that the budget deficit is even worse than expected. And while it doesn't affect me, that another promise won't be delivered, but simply say, "well, people won't be getting less that what they are getting now, they just won't get what we promised" and not even look a tad concerned.

Well 2 thoughts. Firstly she knows it will be irrelevant come September. Plus she is probably happy to stand on her record. Second, I don't want someone who shows emotion and hence is emotional in that position.

Re Salary reduction - that is like the person who refuses to sell their escalating shares, because they don't want to pay the CGT, and then watch as their shares plummet.

But that is exactly what comments about tax being a reason to not work harder/earn more are all about.

 

[Pushka]

Well 2 thoughts. Firstly she knows it will be irrelevant come September. Plus she is probably happy to stand on her record. Second, I don't want someone who shows emotion and hence is emotional in that position..

But medhead, she would look exactly the same if she was Minister in Charge of Happiness. Sometimes, even in a position of Finance, just a tad of emotion is actually a good thing. She never acknowledges the impact of these decisions on anyone, regardless of her portfolio.

I'd also be interested in her record. She certainly didn't represent South Australia well in the Murray River stakes. And she is supposed to represent South Australia.

 

[The Rok]

I have to go out of my way to the Medicare office to claim the refund. Are you in some priority group that gets it hand-delivered?

And how do I get in?

If I visit the doctor before about 14:00 then the rebate is in my bank account about 19:00 that night.

 

[burrco]

But medhead, she would look exactly the same if she was Minister in Charge of Happiness. Sometimes, even in a position of Finance, just a tad of emotion is actually a good thing. She never acknowledges the impact of these decisions on anyone, regardless of her portfolio.

And Sen. Minchin was Mr Happy?

 

[medhead]

But medhead, she would look exactly the same if she was Minister in Charge of Happiness. Sometimes, even in a position of Finance, just a tad of emotion is actually a good thing. She never acknowledges the impact of these decisions on anyone, regardless of her portfolio.

I'd also be interested in her record. She certainly didn't represent South Australia well in the Murray River stakes. And she is supposed to represent South Australia.

Budget surplus' and income don't really affect people directly. Taking away and allowance that people never got in the first place, which they did today. Doesn't really affect people.