Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pushka]

I'm with you Alex Hawke, its time to ditch parental leave on all levels. As a DINK couple who have no desire to have children and think middle class welfare stinks. We dislike people with children crying poor, thinking how expensive raising a child can be. Yes I agree, its not cheap but at the same token, one should be having children because they want to, and not because of middle class handouts.

Time to ditch parental leave pledge: Liberal MP

Are you saying that only middle class and above are the only ones having children? And that lower income families are able to afford to have children and don't need this payment? or maybe they should be like you and not have children?

There are so many things that Governments spend money on, which I don't agree with, but that's just the way it is. I totally disagree with the baby bonus.

 

[amaroo]

I don't agree with baby bonus or parental leave. Father of two - all accomplished without the benefit of state assistance.

Interesting numbers around population growth in Oz. Double the number of births than deaths + migration intake......maybe these bonuses are a way to ensure that all cultural backgrounds are reproducing!

IMO it doesn't do anyone any good if only a handful of the demographic are having large families & others are not.

 

[Alanslegal]

Are you saying that only middle class and above are the only ones having children? And that lower income families are able to afford to have children and don't need this payment? or maybe they should be like you and not have children?

There are so many things that Governments spend money on, which I don't agree with, but that's just the way it is. I totally disagree with the baby bonus.

I am more saying people (everyone really) should be having children because they want to, choose to, and should not be reliant upon government handouts/subsidies/etc . Furthermore paid maternity leave, to me anyway, is a burden on business eg. paying an employee leave, and then requiring to recruit/employ replacement staff etc.

 

[Pushka]

I am more saying people (everyone really) should be having children because they want to, choose to, and should not be reliant upon government handouts/subsidies/etc . Furthermore paid maternity leave, to me anyway, is a burden on business eg. paying an employee leave, and then requiring to recruit/employ replacement staff etc.

Yes. I understand that. And we managed child rearing while I worked part time. No handouts here either. As a small business even maternity leave is difficult for us to manage. But I guess times are a changing.

 

[Moody]

I am more saying people (everyone really) should be having children because they want to, choose to, and should not be reliant upon government handouts/subsidies/etc . Furthermore paid maternity leave, to me anyway, is a burden on business eg. paying an employee leave, and then requiring to recruit/employ replacement staff etc.

So only rich people should have kids? What a strange set of values you have .....

 

[Pushka]

Not every Labor oriented person sticks to the rules. I like that.

 

[Alanslegal]

So only rich people should have kids? What a strange set of values you have .....

Errrrr....no, not at all. People should have children because they want children - and should not have any financial incentive to do so.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Errrrr....no, not at all. People should have children because they want children - and should not have any financial incentive to do so.

errrr... how about cheap home care from the kids when we get old

 

[AdamR]

Errrrr....no, not at all. People should have children because they want children - and should not have any financial incentive to do so.

Morally, I agree with you. There is too much government assistance for this and for that. It would be a lot simpler and cleaner if the government just kept out of it. It is easy for me to say that, as I can afford my family, and get no government 'hand-outs'. On the other hand, I have friends who would struggle to make ends meet without family assistance.

However, I try very hard to look at government policy from an economic, not moral, point of view. It is in the national interest (economically) to have reasonable population increase. Accordingly, it is in the national interest to fund programs that promote that end. Similarly, it is in the national interest to have a manufacturing industry capacity. Accordingly, it makes sense to bail out the big car companies to keep them here. Once you lose an industry like that, you can't easily get it back.

The same argument applies (FWIW) to our airline industry. If Australia wants a local airline industry, then it may need in future to support QF or DJ or whomever. Of course, such support should be tied to public policy objectives (like, for example, direct flights to under-served ports).

I am not saying that the government should always spend in this way, but that it is rational to do so in some cases even if it is morally or philosophically repugnant. There is nothing worse that insisting on philosophical purity to the detriment of the nation (see USA politics for the last five or so years as a good example - a large part of the congress insists government involvement in health care/insurance is wrong for philosophical reasons, even if all the evidence suggests it will deliver better results for less cost).

 

[The Rok]

I struggle to understand how when I earn $180k per year and I go to the doctor I get $35 of my $70 payment refunded to me!

Why? Why should I get it back? I don't need it.

 

[Pushka]

errrr... how about cheap home care from the kids when we get old

The first Government that promises Euthanasia and I will vote for them forever. Even if they're Green. I have this fear of being a dribbling mess in a nursing home. Like my great grandmother and grandmother. My kids know that's the way it is and know to refuse medical treatment if I have a major stroke.

 

[Alanslegal]

The first Government that promises Euthanasia and I will vote for them forever. Even if they're Green. I have this fear of being a dribbling mess in a nursing home. Like my great grandmother and grandmother. My kids know that's the way it is and know to refuse medical treatment if I have a major stroke.

First thing we agree on?

 

[Pushka]

First thing we agree on?

Hmmm. I understand and somewhat agree about the parenting payment. If it was business only that had to pay for it then I'd be quite angry.

 

[casanovawa]

I struggle to understand how when I earn $180k per year and I go to the doctor I get $35 of my $70 payment refunded to me!

Why? Why should I get it back? I don't need it.

Well if you feel so guilty about it Rok, you just go donate that $35 to charity, but while i am not anywhere near your salary, i still want my medicare rebate thanks very much...

 

[casanovawa]

The first Government that promises Euthanasia and I will vote for them forever. Even if they're Green. I have this fear of being a dribbling mess in a nursing home. Like my great grandmother and grandmother. My kids know that's the way it is and know to refuse medical treatment if I have a major stroke.

I think the naz_'s introudced something like that, was it the T4 program??? You have to sometimes be careful what you wish for...

 

[Pushka]

I struggle to understand how when I earn $180k per year and I go to the doctor I get $35 of my $70 payment refunded to me!

Why? Why should I get it back? I don't need it.

Lets take an extension of that and ask why should you get the benefits of the tax free threshold.

 

[The Rok]

There are certain things this government pays out, and they are not alone, the government of my home country is just as generous, but these things should be means tested.

Child care rebates
Medicare assistance

are two thing they spring to mind. Would this government have need to find so much money if they just stopped paying money hand over foot to people who do not necessarily need it.??

My brother in law and his wife have a combined income of over $200,000. They have 2 kids, no debt and live a good life. Yet they get $600 a fortnight in child care allowances and rebates? Why?

And I never said I feel guilty, I just don't understand why I should get it.

 

[Pushka]

I agree with you about means testing the child care rebate and posted that a couple of pages back.

 

[dfcatch]

I struggle to understand how when I earn $180k per year and I go to the doctor I get $35 of my $70 payment refunded to me!

Why? Why should I get it back? I don't need it.

Because you've paid for it by way of the Medicare levy on your income

 

[Alanslegal]

First thing we agree on?

And with that, I am moving on from this thread. I do admit that I have been trolling a bit on this thread [with my one liners ranting against Tony Abbott] As much as I dislike him, my life will be fine post September 14. Politics is one of those topics that no matter which side of the fence one sits on, those positions aren't likely going to change (and discussions can get heated). It sucks barracking for a losing side but hey, life goes on and hopefully the ALP can provide some meaningful opposition in four months time. And now I am off to the other parts of this forum where I can discover bargain priced F class fares or no cost 5* hotel deals, as at the end of the day, that's what I was here for