Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[SFSC]

They have been true to their word and supported the government in confidence motions etc so now we are in the stage of the electoral cycle where we are due for another election and it will be held with no fuss or bother.

If the election happens before September 14 for any reason I will vote for the incumbents. And I'm sure I will have a few mates who normally would not have voted for them either.

 

[Skyring]

That Julia was able to form and maintain a stable coalition is a feat that should be recognised as very well done. Tony offered huge "incentives" to some of the independents to form government with him but they declined.

They have been true to their word and supported the government in confidence motions etc so now we are in the stage of the electoral cycle where we are due for another election and it will be held with no fuss or bother.

There's been a LOT of fuss and bother in this term. Nothing but, really.

The two crucial Independents supported Gillard because they knew that if they supported Abbott, he'd hold another election, he'd win it handsomely, and they would lose their position of influence and quite likely their jobs.

 

[drron]

HVR your comment on climate change is actually getting less scientific report.
Global Warming Alarm: Continued Cooling May Jeopardize Climate Science And Green Energy Funding! - Forbes

For the Pacific islands to go under due to "climate change"you would have to get significant melting of land based ice.90% of that is in antarctica and it is not melting.Sea ice melting does not increase sea levels.
Also coral atolls have disappeared many times in the last few thousand years without "climate change"
Tuvalu was the nation singled out by the IPCC.By now if their predictions were right it should already be under water.Yet in 2010 NZ research has shown 7 of the 9 major islands of the group have grown over the last 60 years-
Study: Coral atolls hold on despite sea-level rise

 

[Platinum A332]

I find that the problem with Labor is they have a mentality that there is no need to be the best at something, it is fine just to be "good enough" - take a look at how Wayne Swan talks about economic policy for example - he will only make comparisons with nations such as Greece, but fail to neglect how well comparable countries such as Norway have gotten through the past six years in a much better shape than Australia.

I am worried about the black hole in the budget next week.....$7.5billion to $17billion in two weeks. I am worried that my generation, just starting work, will have to pay this off for years and years and years to come. I am worried my parents, having worked hard and saved for retirement in a few years, may get slugged with more and more taxes they could not have possibly planned for.

Time to purge Canberra, now!

 

[dfcatch]

And the economic cost of visa overstayers? Taking jobs, not paying tax and using taxpayer funded facilities.

The hash of the situation has been aided and abetted by the coalition. And I'm not going to forget that even if everyone else does.

Actually they pay GST - even if they're skipping on the income tax.

They also don't claim centrelink.

As opposed to these boatloads being shunted into the community, unable to work and being paid welfare. Bad for them, bad for us.

 

[Sprucegoose]

What's a couple of billion between friends.

Besides, it's like having a mortgage of $10k on a $100k property. It's nothing...... Until your unemployed that is.

Yeah we had no mortgage.

 

[Pushka]

The referendum. I'd vote yes if the question was to remove the extra layer of Government - I certainly dont want to see Councils enshrined forevermore in our Constitution. You would think after two unsuccessful attempts that might be a sign, or maybe they think third time lucky?

 

[Skyring]

The referendum. I'd vote yes if the question was to remove the extra layer of Government - I certainly dont want to see Councils enshrined forevermore in our Constitution. You would think after two unsuccessful attempts that might be a sign, or maybe they think third time lucky?

What on earth drives this? After two failed attempts, there must be *some* reason for Labor to be pushing a third go.

I'd say it's as doomed to failure as Julia is. The voters will look on *any* referendum proposal she supports as the purest snakeoil.

 

[casanovawa]

So what is this about a referendum???

And i think the Australian public might have grown jaded with the political process and drifted towards giving their votes to small parties and electing these half baked one-trick ponies, but i don't think any of them ever expected to end up with what we did seeing its been something like 60 years since the last failed experiment of minority government in Australia...

Hopefully just the thought of re-enacting this farce will concentrate people's minds when they go to the ballot box next time in terms of what a dysfunctional mess you can end up with if you don't take the process seriously... As usual, i will not care who my local member is, i don't currently know who it is at state or federal level, as i only vote with the wider picture in mind to put in place a government at State or Federal level who will hopefully not do stupid things and move the State/country foreward for the better.... A poor govt operating at that level, repeatedly hashing it up for everyone like the current mob, will do far more damage and make any small contribution a local member can achieve pail into insignificance...

 

[Pushka]

The referendum is to have Councils specifically acknowledged in the Constitution. Which if this happens, would make it almost impossible for Australia to restructure its multi layers of Government process at a later time. There have been issues with Federal Government providing Councils with direct funding. Meh, so be it. It is only an issue if someone wants to challenge this in the High Court. Not enough reason for me to vote for it. It will be the third time it has been put to a referendum. Last time was in 1988. Voted No then, and will do so this time.

Average Joe voter has no trust for this Government. Such a dreadful legacy. And please don't give me any of this "minority government" nonsense. The reality is that if you want to govern in a minority government then your principles go out the door just to keep it.

 

[Skyring]

So what is this about a referendum???

PM announces election referendum to recognise local government in constitution | News.com.au

 

[casanovawa]

Of all the stupid things to have a referendum about??? This should just put the final nail in the coffin as to people's thought on how in touch she is with things that matter to Joe public... If they can find room for any more nails...

We have survived over a hundred years with the current arrangement with councils, of course local govt is full of stumble bums that you wouldn't really entrust with anything complicated and/or important, but why should we dignify this bunch of rubbish collectors and speed bump installers by sticking them in the consitution??? I doubt we'll ever get rid of the leeches considering how hard it is just to amalgamate a few and make some sensible savings, but the less focus and legitimacy we put on them the better...

And surely, last but not least, she must know at this stage anything she touches is giving it the poison chalice... Ughhh, how many days left!!!

 

[Moody]

I find that the problem with Labor is they have a mentality that there is no need to be the best at something, it is fine just to be "good enough" - take a look at how Wayne Swan talks about economic policy for example - he will only make comparisons with nations such as Greece, but fail to neglect how well comparable countries such as Norway have gotten through the past six years in a much better shape than Australia.

I am worried about the black hole in the budget next week.....$7.5billion to $17billion in two weeks. I am worried that my generation, just starting work, will have to pay this off for years and years and years to come. I am worried my parents, having worked hard and saved for retirement in a few years, may get slugged with more and more taxes they could not have possibly planned for.

Time to purge Canberra, now!

Norway - tax revenue of over %40 of GDP. If Wayne Swan was to nearly double our tax take I'm sure you would back him, eh? But please don't let me stop you finding a better country to live in than Australia, and if you do - then I will chip in for your airfare. (And that's a core promise!)

And if deficits really concern you that much then do a bit more research, find a government in surplus, and then refer to the aforesaid core promise.

And what particular taxes are going to ruin your parent's lives? What is their financial position now compared to 2007?? Do you have an economics degree???

Oh - and do I have to explain how democracy and the Australian Electoral system works, or can you do a bit more research yourself?

 

[casanovawa]

But please don't let me stop you finding a better country to live in than Australia, and if you do - then I will chip in for your airfare. (And that's a core promise!)

Much the same could be said about you Moods after all that guff you were carrying on with the other day about how wracked with remorseful indecision you were over choosing to grace Australia with your prescence all those years ago??? Except for the paying for the airfare, your Mr money bags so you can handle that yourself...

 

[tuapekastar]

The referendum is to have Councils specifically acknowledged in the Constitution. Which if this happens, would make it almost impossible for Australia to restructure its multi layers of Government process at a later time. There have been issues with Federal Government providing Councils with direct funding. Meh, so be it. It is only an issue if someone wants to challenge this in the High Court. Not enough reason for me to vote for it. It will be the third time it has been put to a referendum. Last time was in 1988. Voted No then, and will do so this time.

Average Joe voter has no trust for this Government. Such a dreadful legacy. And please don't give me any of this "minority government" nonsense. The reality is that if you want to govern in a minority government then your principles go out the door just to keep it.

Maybe having local councils recognised in the constitution is the first step in a plan to dismantle state governments? (likely not, but a nice conspiracy theory anyway).

 

[Pushka]

Maybe having local councils recognised in the constitution is the first step in a plan to dismantle state governments? (likely not, but a nice conspiracy theory anyway).

State Governments are already tin our Constitution. So nope. Our local Council is a disgrace and they all got booted in the last election regardless of their position because of their activities on Council. So bad the Govt won't release the court report.

 

[tuapekastar]

State Governments are already tin our Constitution. So nope. Our local Council is a disgrace and they all got booted in the last election regardless of their position because of their activities on Council. So bad the Govt won't release the court report.

The constitution surely can be amended to exclude states, just as it can be amended to include councils? Not suggesting it would be, but it obviously can and does change from time to time.

 

[Pushka]

The constitution surely can be amended to exclude states, just as it can be amended to include councils? Not suggesting it would be, but it obviously can and does change from time to time.

Changing the Constitution requires another referendum. Most referendums fail. Only I think 6, in Australia's history have been successful. There is no way people would say Yes to excluding the States in favour of having a Council.

 

[Moody]

Much the same could be said about you Moods after all that guff you were carrying on with the other day about how wracked with remorseful indecision you were over choosing to grace Australia with your prescence all those years ago??? Except for the paying for the airfare, your Mr money bags so you can handle that yourself...

Don't misunderstand me - Australia is a great country and I can think of no better permanent home for my family, but the locals need a bit of work!

And on this forum I could hardly be described as Mr Moneybags - though upper middle chattering class is probably apt! How would you describe your own demographic?

 

[Skyring]

Changing the Constitution requires another referendum. Most referendums fail. Only I think 6, in Australia's history have been successful. There is no way people would say Yes to excluding the States in favour of having a Council.

It would be hard to get State governments supporting a Yes vote, for example.

The referendum mechanism is one of the best parts about our democracy. It makes us a republic for one thing, as sovereignty stems from the people. All those powers and structures in the Constitution, they cannot be altered or expanded or withdrawn without the approval of the people.

The problem is that only the Commonwealth may initiate changes, so any changes are going to centralise power in Canberra. I see this latest attempt as more of the same, aimed at pushing up the importance of the central government and pushing the States down a notch.