Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

[Pushka]

Don't misunderstand me - Australia is a great country and I can think of no better permanent home for my family, but the locals need a bit of work!?

Condescending much? It's the locals who have made Australia a great country.

 

[amaroo]

Maybe having local councils recognised in the constitution is the first step in a plan to dismantle state governments? (likely not, but a nice conspiracy theory anyway).

I'd vote a big YES to that.

 

[amaroo]

And if deficits really concern you that much then do a bit more research, find a government in surplus, and then refer to the aforesaid core promise.

No need to look OS to find the answer......post 1792 in this thread will shine the light

 

[Platinum A332]

Norway - tax revenue of over %40 of GDP. If Wayne Swan was to nearly double our tax take I'm sure you would back him, eh? But please don't let me stop you finding a better country to live in than Australia, and if you do - then I will chip in for your airfare. (And that's a core promise!)

And if deficits really concern you that much then do a bit more research, find a government in surplus, and then refer to the aforesaid core promise.

And what particular taxes are going to ruin your parent's lives? What is their financial position now compared to 2007?? Do you have an economics degree???

Oh - and do I have to explain how democracy and the Australian Electoral system works, or can you do a bit more research yourself?

Thanks for your personal attack. I never said my parents lives will be "ruined" - and I do not need an airfare out of the country that I love and so does my family. But loving a country does not mean that I should be prevented from saying we could do with a better government.

And for the record I did do a Commerce degree, with first class honours in finance from the University of Sydney. But I guess that means nothing.

 

[serfty]

No need to look OS to find the answer......post 1792 in this thread will shine the light

For reference: Post 1792

 

[Moody]

Thanks for your personal attack. I never said my parents lives will be "ruined" - and I do not need an airfare out of the country that I love and so does my family. But loving a country does not mean that I should be prevented from saying we could do with a better government.

And for the record I did do a Commerce degree, with first class honours in finance from the University of Sydney. But I guess that means nothing.

Well with your Commerce degree you will be able to explain why Norway is doing "much better" than Australia. Here is some research material :- The Norwegian model


Sounds a bit socialist, doesn't it?

 

[casanovawa]

Don't misunderstand me - Australia is a great country and I can think of no better permanent home for my family, but the locals need a bit of work!

And on this forum I could hardly be described as Mr Moneybags - though upper middle chattering class is probably apt! How would you describe your own demographic?

Well that is reassuring to know we somewhat get your stamp of approval... But yes i tend to think the locals have made a pretty major contribution over the years to what the country has become, not just the recent blow ins as welcome as you all are....

And hard to put oneself into these boxes, but if pushed i would tend to define me as a self made, genuine, working-class, salt-of-the-earth, aussie battler... Maybe not in the Gillard stereotype but there you go...

 

[Moody]

Well that is reassuring to know we somewhat get your stamp of approval... But yes i tend to think the locals have made a pretty major contribution over the years to what the country has become, not just the recent blow ins as welcome as you all are.......

Going by comments in this thread, "recent blow ins" are not universally welcomed unless they arrive by air, but thanks for your kind thoughts. And being an optimist I firmly believe that Australia is but one generation away from being the world's most advanced nation. Pity that we seemed destined to repeat the 1950's yet again.

And hard to put oneself into these boxes, but if pushed i would tend to define me as a self made, genuine, working-class, salt-of-the-earth, aussie battler... Maybe not in the Gillard stereotype but there you go...

Surely you mean you are a "Honest John Battler" - voting conservative because that's what them smart, rich people do. My MIL is one of you'se - listens to Alan Jones every day and hates the "Ranga". It makes family gatherings so awkward I try to pretend I watch Celebrity Splash to avoid the Abbott in the room.

 

[Pushka]

I dislike Gillard because she is incompetent. I find it offensive that as soon as anyone voices their concern about her abilities it is automatically dismissed as a Ranga or sexist rant, or an Alan Jones fan. Have never listened to the person.

 

[casanovawa]

Going by comments in this thread, "recent blow ins" are not universally welcomed unless they arrive by air, but thanks for your kind thoughts. And being an optimist I firmly believe that Australia is but one generation away from being the world's most advanced nation. Pity that we seemed destined to repeat the 1950's yet again.

Yes, yes, 1950s all over again, conservatives stuck in the past, yawn, yawn...

No, i think most Australian's, including those in this thread, have quite a bit of time for migrants... Australia has a long history of welcoming migrants and integrating them into society... And Australia, together with the english/irish heritage that laid the foundation for modern Australia, has benefit from this mix and has achieved it a lot more successfully than many countries around this world...

What i think most Australia's want is a sensible, safe, orderly immigration program, where we are in control of who, how and when people come to the country rather than criminal syndicates and people able to buy their way in and then regularly lose their life in the process... It would also help if when they get here they are relatively able to make a contribution within a reasonable period of time rather than being a continuous drain on scarce resources (because we're not going have bundles of money to throw around for the forseeable future thanks to Wayne), even better if we can at least for part of the intake target the skills and educational range we lack that will actually move the country forward...

Me personally, i also think you don't reward a country that opens up its doors to you by taking advantage of it or committing crimes, so just my personal view is that in a probationary period you commit a crime over a certain level and are convicted of it and your straight back to where ever you came from... But that's just an old fashion notion i have about not biting the hand that feeds you and showing appreciation to those that accept you in... Consequently when someone comes here and enjoys this great land of ours and then dumps on the people who built it and starts coughping on about how the place may not be worthy of them, you know i tend to feel like suggesting the door is just over there and don't let it hit you in the backside on the way out...

Surely you mean you are a "Honest John Battler" - voting conservative because that's what them smart, rich people do. My MIL is one of you'se - listens to Alan Jones every day and hates the "Ranga". It makes family gatherings so awkward I try to pretend I watch Celebrity Splash to avoid the Abbott in the room.

No, i don't feel a need to self identify with John or Julia or Kev or any other pollie for that matter??? I was battling before John came along, I'm sure i will be battling in the future.... I'm also not that insecure that i feel a need to self identify with any particualr socio-economic strata in Australia, whatever intelligence i have will remain intact which ever pay grade i am at or lifestyle i choose to lead...

And i know its received wisdom in leftie circles that all conservatives are at home feverishly trying to tune in Alan each night to receive our daily guidance on what to think, a trite little stereotype to fit us all in, but over here on the west coast i'm not sure we get Alan on the radio??? If we do I don't know where to tune the dial in as i never listen to the guy, i suppose its just an east coast centric view of the world that your babblers set the tone for all of Australia... I'm sure we may have some west coast talk back hosts as well, Howard Sattler i suppose is similarly demonised in leftie circles?? Dunno, i don't listen to him either, i don't really feel the need to be spoon fed my views by any individual as i form them myself from a diverse range of sources and life experiences... Sorry to hear about the divide in your family, just grin and bare it for a bit longer... A large majority of the rest of Australia is also taking this approach.... And have pity on all those that aren't capable of coming to the only correct view of the world, yours of course...

 

[Moody]

Asylum seekers .... a tricky subject. FWIW I do think the "no advantage" tactic is on the whole a good one if we are to simultaneously break the smuggling trade and reduce deaths in transit. Making it work is the hard part and not helped by the adversarial political scrap over every vote (the conservatives are always going to dive deeper into the gutter so no contest there).


My solution - if it takes (for example) an average of 5 years for a genuine refugee to come to Australia via the so-called queue, then anyone who is desperate enough to come by boat or air to claim asylum should be happy enough to wait just as long to be fully processed. In the meantime they would be required to live and work at places of our chosing, and if at the end of their serfdom they are thought on the balance to not be genuine refugees (or the situation back at their origin had improved) then they would be deported back home.

Probably needs a bit of fine tuning, but you get my drift.

And I'm glad to hear you're not a fan of the shock-jocks, as being a Urban Dictionary: Sandgroper has you starting life on the far right as it is.

 

[drron]

Asylum seekers .... a tricky subject. FWIW I do think the "no advantage" tactic is on the whole a good one if we are to simultaneously break the smuggling trade and reduce deaths in transit. Making it work is the hard part and not helped by the adversarial political scrap over every vote (the conservatives are always going to dive deeper into the gutter so no contest there).


My solution - if it takes (for example) an average of 5 years for a genuine refugee to come to Australia via the so-called queue, then anyone who is desperate enough to come by boat or air to claim asylum should be happy enough to wait just as long to be fully processed. In the meantime they would be required to live and work at places of our chosing, and if at the end of their serfdom they are thought on the balance to not be genuine refugees (or the situation back at their origin had improved) then they would be deported back home.

Probably needs a bit of fine tuning, but you get my drift.

And I'm glad to hear you're not a fan of the shock-jocks, as being a Urban Dictionary: Sandgroper has you starting life on the far right as it is.

Moody I am in agreement with your second paragraph.

And I also have never listened to Alan Jones.My car radio is always tuned to Radio National.

 

[Skyring]

And I also have never listened to Alan Jones.My car radio is always tuned to Radio National.

I think the only people here listening to Alan Jones are those on the left. I listen to Newsradio.

 

[amaroo]

Time for a pause & enjoy some of the lighter moments of this very long election campaign.

Julia Gillard - Great Australian Lie - American Pie parody - YouTube

Could have posted it over on the humour thread.....but thought it was better suited here

 

[casanovawa]

I think the only people here listening to Alan Jones are those on the left. I listen to Newsradio.

Probably pretty close to the truth there...

I listen to music channels so i can figure out what the latest songs are to download illegally, while i nash my teeth at the stone age wirless internet we are forced to put up with and secretly pray on bended knee for the NBN to take us out of the 19th century...

 

[casanovawa]

And I'm glad to hear you're not a fan of the shock-jocks, as being a Urban Dictionary: Sandgroper has you starting life on the far right as it is.

Its hard to argue with the better looking bit in that... I imagine if i had had the time or inclination to look at definitions of our Victorian and New South Welshman cousins it would highlight just how much time and effort they spend postulating (or coughping on) about which has the capital of the country, nay the universe, in different categories that has been going on for the last 200 years or so... So much so that in that description of sandgropers talking about WA being the largest (true) and most important state, NSW and VIC residents would put WA to shame in terms of their bellicose posturing of how important they are...

PS When i look at the map we sort of look on the far left...

 

[casanovawa]

Asylum seekers .... a tricky subject. FWIW I do think the "no advantage" tactic is on the whole a good one if we are to simultaneously break the smuggling trade and reduce deaths in transit. Making it work is the hard part and not helped by the adversarial political scrap over every vote (the conservatives are always going to dive deeper into the gutter so no contest there).


My solution - if it takes (for example) an average of 5 years for a genuine refugee to come to Australia via the so-called queue, then anyone who is desperate enough to come by boat or air to claim asylum should be happy enough to wait just as long to be fully processed. In the meantime they would be required to live and work at places of our chosing, and if at the end of their serfdom they are thought on the balance to not be genuine refugees (or the situation back at their origin had improved) then they would be deported back home.

Probably needs a bit of fine tuning, but you get my drift.

Yes asylum seeker policy is tricky and is very difficult to enact and get right around the world, many govts struggle with it and it should probably be left to the grown ups... I still disagree with the jibe about the gutter that you feel you need to insert, i think the current govt has reached any depths the previous govt did and then some with how they have have delivered their policy... It is unfortunately tough, but one of a very few ways to break the business model of the smugglers... Such a pity that the bleeding hearts didn't recognise this when it was in place and we had largely done the hard, unpleasant work of stopping the boats and getting a grip of the situation and instead had to junk the whole process only to try to amateurishly try and reinstate it after many more deaths and the situation is still out of control with plenty of pain to come...

I think a mutual obligation arrangement could probably be an interesting approach to partially solving the issue, but its not in vogue much with leftie types... Even with the numerous examples of where dolling out welfare has had a long term corrosive, incapacitating effect on its recipients, forcing people to do anything against their will often brings all the human rights ferals out of their burrows... Of course if the bringing of children would exempt them from being sent to places where projects of national importance are deemed to be occuring in out of the way places, that would just encourage more of them to bring young ones on those rickety death traps as well... But there are some merits to what you say, i just can't see that anyone these days has much of the courage required to force it through all the hurdles... This isn't the 1950-60s and the snowy mountain scheme, you know... That day and age you always accuse the conservatives of living in and rubbishing it...

 

[Moody]

I think the only people here listening to Alan Jones are those on the left. I listen to Newsradio.

Citation needed.

[No - not about the second statement, as that sounds unlikely but not beyond the realms of possibility. But to claim that ANY decent left-winger could listen to Alan Jones for more than 30 seconds before taking to the radio with a baseball bat .... is .... utterly ..... LUDICROUS !!!!]

 

[Skyring]

Citation needed.

[No - not about the second statement, as that sounds unlikely but not beyond the realms of possibility. But to claim that ANY decent left-winger could listen to Alan Jones for more than 30 seconds before taking to the radio with a baseball bat .... is .... utterly ..... LUDICROUS !!!!]

Well, there's only one set of people here talking about Alan Jones with any pretence at knowing his material. Go check.

I like PNN. Not the Parliamentary bits, which tend to be boring apart from Question Time which is merely pathetic. But the ABC has a reasonable coverage and I like to know what's going on. There's not a lot of guff and chit-chat. A nice spread of news and opinion, science and arts.

Fair suck. I like the BBC too. I'm the guy who gave Shropshire and Guernsey the Tim Tam Slam. Live on air.

 

[medhead]

Well, there's only one set of people here talking about Alan Jones

Those who want him to come back and coach the wallabies for the next World Cup? Use his powers for good instead of evil.

BTW personally I used to enjoy the 100km of dirt track that I used to drive regularly, where the only radio reception was lawsy.